View source for Talk:Sudoku

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{{ArticleHistory
|action1=FAC
|action1date=17:05, 1 Jun 2005
|action1link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sudoku/archive1
|action1result=promoted
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|action2=FAR
|action2date=15:36, 5 October 2006
|action2link=Wikipedia:Featured article review/Sudoku/archive1
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|maindate=June 10, 2005
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}}{{Online source
|title       = CONNECTIONS; In Sudoku, 9 Little Numbers Create a Big Challenge
|author      = [[Edward Rothstein]]
|year        = 2006
|monthday    = 1 May
|url         = http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CEEDF113FF932A35756C0A9609C8B63
|org         = [[The New York Times]]
|accessdate  = 2 May 2006
|wikilink    = [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia as a press source 2006#May 2006|Wikipedia as a press source 2006]]
|title2      = An Airport Security Game That Rivals the Real Thing
|author2     = [[Joe Sharkey]]
|year2       = 2007
|monthday2   = 16 January
|url2        = http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/business/16road.html
|org2        = [[The New York Times]]
|accessdate2 = 17 January 2007
|wikilink2   = [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia as a press source 2007#January 2007|Wikipedia as a press source 2007]]
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{{Archives|auto=short|collapsible=yes|search=yes}}

== Third opinion needed ==

Someone keeps adding information about a nonnotable Sudoku variant that was apparently created by the person who adds the text mentioning it. (See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sudoku&diff=293167050&oldid=292849734 the original addition] by someone called  Zanet#### crediting the variant to one "Michel '''Zanet'''t"). Every time I remove it they just come back and add it back. It'd be helpful if someone else verified that it doesn't belong here. [[User:DreamGuy|DreamGuy]] ([[User talk:DreamGuy|talk]]) 19:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Third opinion ===

I have been unable to find any [[wp:reliable source|reliable source]] coverage of this variant.  One source should be enough for inclusion in the article since it doesn't have to meet the [[WP:GNG|GNG]] to be part of another article, but instead only has to be [[WP:verifiable|verifiable]]. Without any RS coverage it doesn't belong. 

The best way to handle this is to revert and kindly inform the offending party about our policies.  If it continues to be added, report the adder for [[WP:edit warring|edit warring]]. --[[User:ThaddeusB|ThaddeusB]] ([[User talk:ThaddeusB|talk]]) 19:44, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:One source would clearly not be enough for a mention here. That's a simply impractical suggestion, as every article would be full of nonnotable nonsense just because it can be confirmed but not because it has any relevance. We're not a collection of trivia. It doesn't have to demonstrate notability for a separate article, but it would still have to be demonstrably notable. One newspaper running a puzzle type or whatever would not cut it. [[User:DreamGuy|DreamGuy]] ([[User talk:DreamGuy|talk]]) 16:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

== Soduko ==

Why can't *''soduko'' be a Japanese word? --[[Special:Contributions/88.78.10.15|88.78.10.15]] ([[User talk:88.78.10.15|talk]]) 13:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

: Because *''du'' becomes ''zu''. —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 02:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

== Suggestions to further improve, 10:28, 17 July 2009 (UTC) ==

I read this a bit out of curiosity and saw that it was A-class per WikiProject Mathematics; I'm not convinced.  I recommend all of those suggestions, in order, ''before'' [[WP:GAN|nominating for good]] or [[WP:FAC|featured]] status:
#'''[[WP:LEAD|Lead]]''': Simply citing (a translation of) Euler's paper does '''not''' prove that Euler is "sometimes incorrectly cited as the source of the puzzle"; ''[[WP:WEASEL|who]]'' incorrectly cites it?  Find a source that says who does and that they're wrong. At ''minimum'' (and I don't recommend this as it is construable as [[WP:OR|original research]]) explain that the paper only talks about various aspects of Latin squares without inventing the game or its name, and remove the "sometimes incorrectly cited" phrase—Euler's paper doesn't say who does.
#'''[[Sudoku#History|History]]''': Consider describing the main variant's rules in a prior section before discussing the game's history, or at least moving "Variants" to precede it.  The article body has barely started, and the first paragraph already says "It was not a Sudoku because it contained double-digit numbers and required arithmetic rather than logic to solve"—that probably cost us a reader or two already.  Also more weasel words in para 2; there may be more throughout.
#'''[[Sudoku#Variants|Variants]]''': Any Sudoku variants without their own articles need a citation—e.g. give an issue and page number for at least one magazine appearance of ''Digital Number Place''.  Anyone can think up a variant and plop it on the page; mention notable ones only.  Check that variants ''with'' their own article are also cited, and consider copying their articles' citations to this article.
#'''[[Sudoku#Competitions|Competitions]]''': The World Sudoku Championships should probably be grouped together, and followed by the newspaper ones.
#Stubby paragraphs and lone sentences remain a [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Sudoku/archive1|'''long'''-time]] issue.  Combine them with bigger ones.
#[[WP:CITE|Cite]] all non-obvious statements (as in #1) in the article, if possible, and make sure the cites prove those specific facts.
#Make sure that the lead summarizes all the article's major aspects.  A good lead won't need citations (except for contentious stuff) because it briefly says what's already written.
#Add [[WP:ALT|alt text for images]] so it can meet [[WP:FA?|FA criterion 3]].
#Seek a [[WP:PR|peer review]] and a [[WP:COPYEDIT|copyedit]] from someone outside of the project(s) to point out errors, redundancies, ''and'' [[WP:JARGON|unfamiliar terms]], especially in the lead (many will just read that, so make it sparkle like a bag of golden [[Skittles (confectionery)|Skittles]]).
It's great that the New York Times liked it some years ago, but there is still vast improvement needed here.  This isn't about [[New Cutie Honey|some cancelled, short-lived, direct-to-video cartoon]], but a '''world-famous game'''; it should be worth its players' time. --[[User:AnOddName|an]] '''[[User_talk:AnOddName|odd]]''' [[Special:Contributions/AnOddName|name]] 10:28, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
I've demoted it to B-class for those issues.  Try to fix them before a re-assess. --[[User:AnOddName|an]] '''[[User_talk:AnOddName|odd]]''' [[Special:Contributions/AnOddName|name]] 18:57, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

== Wordoku? ==

"Wordoku" redirects here, but there's no explanation of it... Wouldn't that be a good idea? (If I knew what it was, I'd contribute one.) -- [[User:SomeAvailableName|SomeAvailableName]] 09:32, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

== Uniqueness of solution ==

My understanding is that a proper Sudoku has a unique solution. Is this in fact the case?  The article doesn't make this point clear, although section 3 alludes to it. <i>[[User:Tayste|Tayste]]</i> ([[User talk:Tayste|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Tayste|contrib]]) 01:24, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

:Solution grids fall into 3 main categories: 'No-solution', caused by an invalid puzzle (some contradiction present); 'one/unique solution', which only have 1 solution that can't be eliminated by logic; and Multiple Solutions, which occur when one (or more) cells are left with more than one possibility that can't be eliminated.  Regardless of which possible value you choose, the final puzzles are all both valid and generatable from the given input grid.   If you take a grid known to have one or more solutions and erase some of it's inputs, you'll almost always end up with a puzzle with multiple solutions.  Thus, a puzzle with multiple solutions could be considered the result of insufficient input data, but is still technically valid. <b>[[User:Ghostwo|<span style="color:#0033A6;">Ghos</span>]][[User_talk:Ghostwo|<span style="color:#209020;">t</span><span style="color:#990066;">wo</span>]]</b> 07:54, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== Missing explanation of difficulty levels. ==

In my local newspaper, the standard sudoku (9x9 grid with 3x3 sub-grid) always comes with a given difficulty rating, which ranges from one to five stars – five being the hardest.

It would be nice to have a separate section, in the [[Sudoku]] article, with info about difficulty levels in sudoku. ''But'', at the same time, I am a little bit afraid that it might kind of "spoil the fun" – if I explicitly were to know the details of the exact features/qualities which makes up each difficulty level. Therefore I think I might prefer to have some of the most revealing info in a "<NOWIKI>{{Collapse top}} ''Explicit details'' {{Collapse bottom}}</NOWIKI>" subsection, with a spoiler warning in front of it.<br/>--[[User:Seren-dipper|Seren-dipper]] ([[User talk:Seren-dipper#top|talk]]) 02:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
:There is no such standard by any means. Difficulty level ratings vary wildly among publishers.—[[User:EmilJ|Emil]]&nbsp;[[User talk:EmilJ|J.]] 11:41, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
::Still, presumably, the difficulty level ratings from each publisher is internally consistent – is it not? So it would be interesting to read examples of how some (various) publishers rate their sudokus! --[[Special:Contributions/89.9.66.14|89.9.66.14]] ([[User talk:89.9.66.14|talk]]) 02:09, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

== Correlation to Intelligence quotient (IQ) ? ==

My subjective experience is that the difficulty, of each of the five difficulty levels mentioned in the previous section, is fairly constant. So, on the condition that a person never just guesses on a number, then the ability to solve each difficulty level, may have at least some probability
-correlation with the [[Intelligence quotient]] (IQ) of that person. For instance: what would be an educated guess about the IQ-level of one who ''never'' manages to solve a four-star? Or one who, given time, always is able to solve a three-star game, but only sometimes manages to solve a four-star. (And what about the other difficulty levels?). (I guess it will make a significant change to his/her ability, whether someone has told the person anything more than the basic rules about how to solve a sudoku, but still I would love to read a little something about this, when reading about sudoku!). <BR>I do not know of any scientific research around this, but I presume it has been done. It would be very nice to have some info about it in this article.<br/>--[[User:Seren-dipper|Seren-dipper]] ([[User talk:Seren-dipper#top|talk]]) 02:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

:WHY do you think there ought to be a correlation between sudoku-solving ability and IQ?  especially when you have instances of people with autism who have very specific mathematical talents?[[Special:Contributions/184.148.66.92|184.148.66.92]] ([[User talk:184.148.66.92|talk]]) 00:37, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

:What about the IQ of someone who puts such nonsense on this page? I won't catalog all the logic errors and muddled thinking here, beyond the primary one--it doesn't belong on this page. P.S. The response below is also completely irrelevant to this page ... Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, not the idle musings of editors, and it's bizarre to ask ''me'' for sources for an absurd speculation (made 11 years ago) that I'm objecting to. (And don't change the indentation of comments ... I indented this based on who I was responding to. BTW, the comment above by [[Special:Contributions/184.148.66.92|184.148.66.92]] is not off the mark at all. IQ variance being greater in autistics than neurotypicals actually reinforces the point--people with ASD are 40 times as likely to have intellectual disabilities. [[Special:Contributions/184.148.66.92|184.148.66.92]]'s point was (obviously) that even people with severe intellectual disabilities might have specialized abilities for solving Sudoku.) -- [[Special:Contributions/184.187.178.32|184.187.178.32]] ([[User talk:184.187.178.32|talk]]) 04:15, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

::Easy now ... but yes, IQ is a slippery subject, being an attempt to express in one number what unquestionably is a much more complicated matter. Serious IQ's are typically determined by a battery of different tests, thus attempting to average out the different emphasis of different types of questions. Classical IQ tests (apart from often mixing in things that clearly have a cultural bias that shouldn't be part of a determination of "general intelligence") tend to emphasize things like logical thinking and pattern-finding, and Sudoku-solving would fit nicely into such tests - clearly, it would "measure" some of the same things. For virtually ANY type of question in an IQ test, there are techniques and approaches that can be trained, meaning the test does not only measure "general intelligence", but also measures specific training towards the specific question types in the test. This would be more true about Sudoku solving than for many other question types, so the simple association of Sudoku difficuly levels with IQ is impossible. Completely unfounded and off the top of my head: A person with an IQ of 100, say, can solve a two-star Sudoku without training, but with some training, the same person can solve a four-star Sudoku, and after learning an algorithm involving some kind of note-taking in the process, can solve any solvable Sudoku.
::Does this discussion belong on this talk page? That depends: Does it point towards some change or addition to the article itself? The answer to that is: Only if someone can dig up sources of a type and quality suitable for Wikipedia. Can you?
::PS. The mention of autism above is way off the mark. Unless I misunderstand, it seems to imply that autists have low IQ, which is nonsense. As measured with classical IQ tests, I'd expect autists to be spread out over all of the IQ scale (possibly even more spread out that neurotypicals).--[[User:Nø|Nø]] ([[User talk:Nø|talk]]) 10:45, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
::Article talk pages are primarily about changes to article, but they are also about community interaction. Hence, don't just be right - be civil too, and explain yourself in a way that may help other editors along.--[[User:Nø|Nø]] ([[User talk:Nø|talk]]) 18:42, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

== Solving methods? ==

[[Glossary of Sudoku]] links to [[Sudoku#Solution methods]] to explain "scanning", "cross hatching" and "counting", yet the section doesn't seem to exist and none of these terms are explained.  What happened? [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] ([[User talk:Jpatokal|talk]]) 07:08, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
:The sections on the various strategies used (and on related terminology) were removed during [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sudoku&diff=251917175&oldid=251784062 this edit] in November 2008.  The reason given was that Wikipedia is not an instruction manual and that solutions are already covered in the [[Mathematics of Sudoku]] article. [[User:Riick|Riick]] ([[User talk:Riick|talk]]) 01:19, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
:(Also potentially relevant is this uncaught [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sudoku&action=historysubmit&diff=251782555&oldid=251387041 section blanking vandalism]. It may have inspired the removal of the solution methodology sections by eliminating their intended context within the article. [[User:Riick|Riick]] ([[User talk:Riick|talk]]) 06:13, 21 April 2010 (UTC) )

[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sudoku&oldid=251784062 The article at the time of the deletions] was certainly starting to resemble an instruction manual. However, I do not believe this necessitated deleting all solution methodology.  Instead the tone and placement of that content should have been revised so as not to sound like instructions. How people go about using a puzzle is very much part of what the puzzle is, and therefore should be included in the article. In fact, according to the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#cite_note-5 footnote] for the [[WP:NOTMANUAL|Wikipedia is not an instruction manual]] policy, "describing to the reader how other people or things use something is encyclopedic; instructing the reader in the imperative mood about how to use something is not."  I am also not convinced by the second reason given for the deletion.  The Mathematics of Sudoku article seems to be about [[combinatorics|combinatoric]] studies of Sudoku puzzles.  As such, it discusses topics such as calculating the number of different Sudoku puzzles which can be constructed, determining whether it is theoretically possible for a Sudoku puzzle to have a given pattern, and so on. It includes nothing about the various approaches used when solving a Sudoku puzzle, nor did it at the time of the deletion. For these reasons, I propose returning the information about solution methodologies to the article. [[User:Riick|Riick]] ([[User talk:Riick|talk]]) 04:31, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

This is not the first time there has been discussion about whether or not solution methodologies should be included. In an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sudoku/Archive03#Sanity_check:_encyclopedia_vs._textbook archived discussion from 2005] Zotmeister made the following comment, and I think it's still relevant today: "We list the primary weapons people use to tackle Sudoku puzzles because we're supposed to report that - it's historical info. The line is drawn between telling how people solve the puzzle and telling people how to solve the puzzle; we do the former to the best of our ability and leave the latter to other resources." Also, for what it's worth, I found an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sudoku/Archive04#Major_revision_mid-Nov_2008 archived comment from 2008] regarding the specific deletions in question.
[[User:Riick|Riick]] ([[User talk:Riick|talk]]) 05:26, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

'''Could someone add back the worthwhile part of the discussion about Sudoko strategies/solutions?''' The person who deleted them, for example? Deleting all of that, some time ago, bordered on vandalism. The 'instruction manual' rationale does not really apply when specific patterns and strategies have been 'studied' and labelled. In this sense they are comparable to standard encyclopedic discussions of chess (various openings and gambits and so on that have been generally identified and are worthy of discussion). I might draw the line as specific notation systems used by individual solvers. [[Special:Contributions/83.28.145.185|83.28.145.185]] ([[User talk:83.28.145.185|talk]]) 09:42, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I wrote (almost) everything I know about Sudoku Solving on a webpage and a friend translated it into english. The result is exactly intended to be an 'instruction manual'. If someone likes to have more instructions and strategies here a link to my site is an option. A special 'manual' article might be an other option. If parts of my text or pictures are used, please name and/or link the source! http://www.signumsingulare.com/enus/theo.htm  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/31.18.77.38|31.18.77.38]] ([[User talk:31.18.77.38|talk]]) 15:32, 13 July 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Steganography in sudoku ==

Let's get rid of this section. Steganography can be performed on pretty much any type of data. There's no evidence that anyone is engaging in steganography in sudoku puzzles other than for the purpose of demonstrating that it could be done. Who's with me? - [[User:Richardcavell|Richard Cavell]] ([[User talk:Richardcavell|talk]]) 09:25, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

== Broken link ==

Reference/link 38 in "Notes", "3rd-place winner disqualified in sudoku scandal", is broken. --[[User:Mortense|Mortense]] ([[User talk:Mortense|talk]]) 18:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

== Mathematical modeling of sudoku puzzle and easy way to find solution ==

I have found a wonderful new method to model the sudoku, it modelled sudoku into any arrey of number ( cordinates ) where by using simple rules we could find solution to any sudoke having valid solution, I think this method is not only good from solving sudoku but would added some many new concepts , solution methoid, mathemacticall way to understand sudoku etc...and need some one to review and help me to post it under right catagory , link is : http://www.scribd.com/doc/39235249/How-to-Solve-Sudoku-Mathematically
[[User:HarshGoel|HarshGoel]] ([[User talk:HarshGoel|talk]]) 03:49, 17 October 2010 (UTC) Harsh Goel

:This is not what this page is for. -- [[Special:Contributions/184.187.178.32|184.187.178.32]] ([[User talk:184.187.178.32|talk]]) 06:15, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

== Number of classic 9×9 Sudoku solution grids ==

The Number of classic 9×9 Sudoku solution grids is 1,908,360,529,573,850,000,000,000,000 or approximately ~
1.908x1027 (help to verify my finding posted at http://www.scribd.com/doc/39235249/How-to-Solve-Sudoku-Mathematically ( appendix-B page 28 ) [[User:HarshGoel|HarshGoel]] ([[User talk:HarshGoel|talk]])Harsh Goel  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 16:54, 27 October 2010 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== WP:Japan Importance Re-evaluated ==

The Importance of ''Sudoku'' to WP:Japan has been re-evaluated after secondary opinions were solicited from members of WP:Japan. The article was downgraded for the following reasons:
* The game of sudoku was NOT invented in [[Japan]].
* However, the name "Sudoku" was invented in Japan.
* While the game is an international phenomenon, it should not be considered a "core topic" (per Top-importance criteria) on the subject of Japan. That is, if one were going to go look up information on Sudoku, one would not start with an encyclopedia on Japan.
*Without sudoku, Japanese history and culture would not be much different, and therefore does not rank among articles such as [[Toyotomi Hideyoshi]], [[Kabuki]], or the [[Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki]] (all Top-importance). 
Thank you. [[User:Boneyard90|Boneyard90]] ([[User talk:Boneyard90|talk]]) 22:14, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

== Grubblegrook added a book promotion in the first section ==

I removed it.. but here it is for posterity: 
In 2009 Len Loullis produced a version called Koudus, the first straight-forward substitution of the letters A to I for numbers.  Although this may seem to be pointless, Koudus 
puzzles are noticeably harder than Sudoku.  For some reason to do with cognition letters do not spring to the mind’s eye as rapidly as numbers as it is more accustomed to seeing letters in groups forming words.  
Melrose Books of Ely  {{ISBN|978 190656161 1}}

In other edits, he also had a url which I won't repeat, just in case.
--[[User:JeffryJohnston|JeffryJohnston]] ([[User talk:JeffryJohnston|talk]]) 18:02, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

== Nonet? ==

I call those 3×3 squares in a Sudoku grid "sectors". -- <span style="border: 1px solid #ba0000;"> [[User:Denelson83|Denelson]][[User talk:Denelson83|'''83''']] </span> 05:13, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

:What some random person calls something is not relevant to Wikipedia. -- [[Special:Contributions/184.187.178.32|184.187.178.32]] ([[User talk:184.187.178.32|talk]]) 06:17, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

== Killer Sudoku section ==

There is currently a very long Killer Sudoku section that appears to be copied straight from the [[Killer Sudoku]] page. I'm not sure, but I think that it is supposed to be replaced with just a link and a short description. I feel uncomfortable doing this myself; would someone with more experience check it out? [[User:Shades97|Shades97]] ([[User talk:Shades97|talk]]) 23:16, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

:I have {{diff||466557872|465446559|removed the duplicated content}} and pointed to the main article with a {{tn|main}} template. The article needs more work. - [[User:DVdm|DVdm]] ([[User talk:DVdm|talk]]) 18:27, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Sudoku/links to consider]] ==

This subpage has been nominated for deletion, see [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Talk:Sudoku/links to consider]]. [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] 08:29, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

*Note: There was a previous [[Talk:Sudoku/Archive 2#Why "Sudoku/Resources" is a bad solution|discussion in 2005]] about this subpage, which was originally located at [[Sudoku/Resources]]. - [[User:M0rphzone|M0rphzone]] ([[User talk:M0rphzone|talk]]) 02:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

== Redirects ==

I just simply added two redirects for common mispellings  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shrillpicc100|Shrillpicc100]] ([[User talk:Shrillpicc100|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Shrillpicc100|contribs]]) 12:50, 15 May 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I removed one. - [[User:DVdm|DVdm]] ([[User talk:DVdm|talk]]) 13:16, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

:I was about to remove the other one as well, but someone was there before me. - [[User:DVdm|DVdm]] ([[User talk:DVdm|talk]]) 13:21, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

== What are cross-sum sudokus? ==

At its current state, the [[Sudoku#Cross Sums Sudoku|section]] in the article does not give enough information to understand what these actually are. [[Special:Contributions/188.169.229.30|188.169.229.30]] ([[User talk:188.169.229.30|talk]]) 09:38, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

== This is roughly 1.2×10−6 times the number of 9×9 Latin squares. ==

NEVER EVER!

The [[Latin square]] neglect the sub-boxes. To fill a sub-box, where are 9*9*9*9*9*9*9*9*9 = 387.420.489 combinations without any restrictions as in a Latin square. If each digit must occur only once, there are only 9! = 9*8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1 = 362.880 or about thousand times less combinations. Since there are nine sub-boxes, the reduction must be much larger than one thousand times thousand or one million.
[[User:Franz Scheerer (Olbers)|Franz Scheerer (Olbers)]] ([[User talk:Franz Scheerer (Olbers)|talk]]) 17:50, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

: Nope, you forgot a Latin Square must have distinct digits along a row/column. Also feel free to check it on your own. To compare, I count 576 Latin squares, in which 288 of them are Sudoku grids; that's exactly half. (You can verify this yourself; only 576, so it will take at most about five hours by hand...) By your thinking we have 4*4*4*4 = 256 combinations in a 2x2 box, while in a Sudoku grid we have 4! = 24 combinations, giving 1/10 from each box and thus there are 1/10000 Sudoku grids among 4x4 Latin squares... &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Chaotic iak|chaotic_iak]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Chaotic iak|talk]]) 12:10, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

:This isn't a blog or forum about the article subject. Please omit personal opinions, calculations, or anything else personal from this page. Wikipedia is based on material from reliable sources, period. -- [[Special:Contributions/184.187.178.32|184.187.178.32]] ([[User talk:184.187.178.32|talk]]) 06:25, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

== Numberphile external link ==

Suggest the following external link be added: {{cite web|last=Grime|first=James|title=17 and Sudoku Clues|url=http://www.numberphile.com/videos/17sudoku.html|work=Numberphile|publisher=[[Brady Haran]]}}. Grime is a mathematics professor at the [[University of Nottingham]].  The video is a spinoff from [[The Periodic Table of Videos]] series created at Nottingham. – [[User:Srich32977|S. Rich]] ([[User talk:Srich32977|talk]]) 04:53, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

== Sections out of order? ==

I think the sections are kind of out of order. It's currently History, followed by Variants and Mathematics, and then back to the society with Recent Popularity. I feel like History should be followed by Recent Popularity. Opinions? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Chaotic iak|chaotic_iak]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Chaotic iak|talk]]) 12:15, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

== Variant ABCDoku? ==

What about this variant?  ABCDoku.  See [http://www.clarity-media.co.uk/abcdoku.php http://www.clarity-media.co.uk/abcdoku.php]. [[User:Tuckerresearch|TuckerResearch]] ([[User talk:Tuckerresearch|talk]]) 23:47, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

:It seems too different to be called a variant. [[User talk:Jimp|Jimp]] 18:05, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

:It's a variant but isn't notable. -- [[Special:Contributions/184.187.178.32|184.187.178.32]] ([[User talk:184.187.178.32|talk]]) 06:27, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

== Uniqueness of grid shown in top right ==

I thought a true Sudoku should have a unique solution. If that's the case then the one shown in the top right does not satisfy this - values 2 and 4 could be interchanged at (3,8) & (3,9), (8,3) & (9,3), (8,8) & (9,9).  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/31.221.13.140|31.221.13.140]] ([[User talk:31.221.13.140|talk]]) 11:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:An even simpler counterexample to uniqueness would be to interchange 2 and 4 in positions (5,4), (6,4), (5,7) and (6,7). You are correct, Sudoku solutions are to be unique, so this example is not a valid Sudoku example. The 2 x 2 subsquare that I've pointed out is called an intercalate and unless the four positions of one are in different subsquares, their existence will destroy uniqueness. [[User:Wcherowi|Bill Cherowitzo ]] ([[User talk:Wcherowi|talk]]) 21:29, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

== Pronunciation ==

The intro gives the transliteration of "数独" as "sūdoku" which would be [[Help:IPA_for_Japanese|pronounced]] {{IPA|/suːdoku/}}.  The recording, [[File:Speakerlink-new.svg|11px|link=//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Sudoku.ogg|Listen]], however, is clearly neither {{IPA|/suːdoku/}} nor the Anglicised {{IPA|/suːdoʊkuː/}} the article makes it appear to be but  {{IPA|/saːdoku/}}.  [[User talk:Jimp|Jimp]] 18:32, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

== Link to actual Sudoku puzzles ==

It seems reasonable to include the Web Sudoku link (http://www.websudoku.com), a Sudoku puzzle generator.  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mpiedrav|Mpiedrav]] ([[User talk:Mpiedrav|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mpiedrav|contribs]]) 17:05, 8 August 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I submit a link for a Sudoku implemented in a spreadsheet file. Basically the game that runs in either Excel or Open Office. The original concept was to teach kids the power of a spreadsheet while also learning Sudoku ([https://magicalspreadsheets.blogspot.com/ Games implemented on spreadsheets])  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Grpistoia|Grpistoia]] ([[User talk:Grpistoia#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Grpistoia|contribs]]) 03:19, 24 January 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Round / circular / circle sudoku ==

This variant of sudoku is not mentionned yet

https://www.google.co.il/search?q=circular+sudoku&oq=circular+sudoku&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3j69i60.6508j0j4&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=awWBQz6bOBztwM%3A
[[User:Hexagone59|Hexagone59]] ([[User talk:Hexagone59|talk]]) 20:58, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

== panmagic Sudoku ==

Hi! You may find some work about panmagic Sudokus at [[testwiki:user talk:Gangleri/tests/4x4 type square/panmagic Sudoku]] a part of a multiscript collaboration work; see [[testwiki:category:4x4 type square]]. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] ([[User talk:Gangleri|talk]]) 16:10, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

==Standardized Format for Sudoku Images==
Between [[Sudoku]], [[Mathematics of Sudoku]], and [[Sudoku solving algorithms]] there are several formats for displaying a Sudoku (even within a single article). If any editors '''''Add''''' new Sudoku images, please go to ***[[Talk:Mathematics of Sudoku]]*** to see the suggested format. '''If comments please do not reply here'''. All comments on standardizing the format should be in the same Talk place.[[User:LithiumFlash|LithiumFlash]] ([[User talk:LithiumFlash|talk]]) 02:42, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

== Gusu? ==

In a varian tof sudoko have seen, there is added the name Gusuo, and some field ar makred grey, but what does it mean?  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/87.73.41.211|87.73.41.211]] ([[User talk:87.73.41.211#top|talk]]) 20:35, 15 October 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Sandwich sudoku ==

I added this section under "Variants", but it was removed with a comment describing it as a "not notable variant". 
:'''Sandwich sudoku''' specifies for each row and column the total of the numbers in squares between the numbers 1 and 9.<ref name="bellos">{{cite news |last1=Bellos |first1=Mark |title=Can you solve it? Sandwich sudoku - a new puzzle goes viral. |url=https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/06/can-you-solve-it-sandwich-sudoku-a-new-puzzle-goes-viral |accessdate=20 July 2019 |work=The Guardian |date=6 May 2019}}</ref>
{{reflist talk}}
Following [[WP:BRD]] I come here to discuss. 

On consideration, I would now add:
:'''Sandwich sudoku''' or '''Between 1 and 9 sudoku''' specifies for each row and column the total of the numbers in squares between the numbers 1 and 9.<ref name="bellos">{{cite news |last1=Bellos |first1=Mark |title=Can you solve it? Sandwich sudoku - a new puzzle goes viral. |url=https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/06/can-you-solve-it-sandwich-sudoku-a-new-puzzle-goes-viral |accessdate=20 July 2019 |work=The Guardian |date=6 May 2019}}</ref><ref name="tectonic">{{cite web |title=Between 1 and 9 Sudoku |url=http://www.tectonicpuzzel.eu/between-1-and-9-sudoku-variant.html |website=www.tectonicpuzzel.eu |accessdate=21 July 2019}}</ref> 
{{reflist talk}}
Any views? [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 18:34, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
:Take a look at this [http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/compilation-of-sudoku-variants-t34356.html Compilation of Sudoku Variants] as well as the following discussion and reference to other list. Should all these variants be included in the main Sudoku page? Is the Sandwich variant more notable than them? (I can't find Sandwich in both lists.) My point is not to pollute the page with variants of questionable popularity. In any case, I will not revert your additions for the second time and will let others decide. [[User:Dobrichev|Dobrichev]] ([[User talk:Dobrichev|talk]]) 13:50, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
::Do you mean to say "I would not revert your additions if you added them again?" You seem to imply that I added the contested variation twice: I did not. I did revert your reversion of my change to the section heading, as the section already includes 9x9 variants like Jigsaw Sudoku (which I know as Jigsawdoku, though I didn't revert your removal of that, either), which were not covered by the previous section heading. [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 15:55, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I see no problem in the section heading. "Variations of grid sizes or region shapes" looks OK. If you add back Sandwich I will not be aggressive and literally will not revert in hope that other editors will. If nobody reverts, then the article will stay polluted like many other articles are (ref. [[Sudoku solving algorithms]], [[Combinatorial explosion]]). BTW for the same reason I don't like "Mini Sudoku", "Alphabetical Sudoku", "Hyper Sudoku", and "Twin Sudoku". I didn't revert them because I read them months after they were introduced and saw that nobody else reverted their addition.[[User:Dobrichev|Dobrichev]] ([[User talk:Dobrichev|talk]]) 16:32, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

=="and then ''The Times'' (London), in 2004"==
I remember daily sudoku puzzles in ''[[The Guardian]]'' (also London) in the 1990s. [[User:Narky Blert|Narky Blert]] ([[User talk:Narky Blert|talk]]) 18:30, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
:I can't get your point. I reverted your variant addition due to the reasons explained in the above talk section. [[User:Dobrichev|Dobrichev]] ([[User talk:Dobrichev|talk]]) 19:03, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

== Solving methods ? ==

I found a mention of some solving methods: X-wing, Y-wing, Swordfish and Forcing chain. Can they be explained in this article? [[User:VanBuren|VanBuren]] ([[User talk:VanBuren|talk]]) 13:11, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

== Link to the sudoku considered The hardest sudoku in the world ==

Arto Inkala wrote what is considered the hardest classic sudoku in the world. 

sources: https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/can-you-solve-the-hardest-ever-sudoku


<u>This page</u>: [https://sudoku2.com/play-the-hardest-sudoku-in-the-world/ the-hardest-sudoku-in-the-world]

features the exact sudoku in a playable environment, and background details regarding the sudoku and its creator.

I think could be a unique addition to the external links. 

Any objection? [[Special:Contributions/176.231.1.54|176.231.1.54]] ([[User talk:176.231.1.54|talk]]) 20:50, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

:I object to linking to any playable game per [[WP:ELNO]]. We're not a link directory. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 17:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

== Mistake? ==

There is probably a mistake in the article:

'''This is roughly 1.2×10<sup>−6</sup> times the number of 9×9 Latin squares.'''

Moreover, the citation to it under number 36 is not to be found on the page linked to it. [[Special:Contributions/213.57.96.10|213.57.96.10]] ([[User talk:213.57.96.10|talk]]) 09:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

== nr of solutions ==

Can an explanation be included how the nr of solutions 6,670,903,752,021,072,936,960 is computed? [[User:Jacob.Koot|Jacob.Koot]] ([[User talk:Jacob.Koot|talk]]) 13:42, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

:The section links to a main article, [[Mathematics of Sudoku]], that includes this number here: [[Mathematics of Sudoku#All solutions]]. The method is explained there, in general terms; it seems not to be the result of a simple calculation, but rather an elaborate enumeration adding results for a long list of sub-cases. I don't think this info needs to be repeated in [[Sudoku]]. [[User:Nø|Nø]] ([[User talk:Nø|talk]]) 14:16, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks [[User:Jacob.Koot|Jacob.Koot]] ([[User talk:Jacob.Koot|talk]]) [[User:Jacob.Koot|Jacob.Koot]] ([[User talk:Jacob.Koot|talk]]) 17:50, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
:::The total number of 9x9 correctly filled boards is said to be N = 6670903752021072936960. Given a correctly filled board, rearranging the rows and columns yields 9! x 9! different solutions. So I would expect N / (9! x 9!) to be a natural number. However it is not, it is 50659232861+9/35. Considering the uniqueness in sub-boards too I would expect N / (9! x 9! x 4!) to be a natural number too. Either N is not correct or my thinking is false. If so how ???  [[User:Jacob.Koot|Jacob.Koot]] ([[User talk:Jacob.Koot|talk]]) 11:00, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
::::You can't just rearrange only the subboards (which would lead to invalid rows/columns), or only the rows or columns (which would lead to invalid subboards), both conditions must be satisfied at the same time. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 11:22, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks, I see. I have to limit the rearrangements as follows:
:::::Triples of columns can be rearranged, factor (3!)^3
:::::Triples of rows can be rearranged, factor (3!)^3
:::::The tree columns of sub boards can be rearranged, factor 3!
:::::The three rows of sub boards can be rearranged, factor 3!
:::::Indeed: 6670903752021072936960 / (3!)^8 = 3971683856322560 = 2^12 x 5 x 7 x 27704267971
:::::is a natural number.
:::::Correct?
:::::[[User:Jacob.Koot|Jacob.Koot]] ([[User talk:Jacob.Koot|talk]]) 13:21, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

== "Classic or normal sudoku rules appy" ==

Many game descriptions follow the definition provided in this article: "In classic Sudoku, the objective is to fill a 9 × 9 grid with digits so that each column, each row, and each of the nine 3 × 3 subgrids that compose the grid (also called "boxes", "blocks", or "regions") contains all of the digits from 1 to 9." Why aren't other rules mentioned ? In each column row or box, there are modularity groups (1-4-7, 2-5-8 and 3-6-9). high-low groups (1-2-3-4 and 6-7-8-9, 5), parity groups (1-3-5-7-9 and 2-4-6-8) and entropy groups (1-2-3, 4-5-6 and 7-8-9).Whether or not they are used by the grid maker, they are at the disposal of the solver at all times. [[User:Japarthur|Japarthur]] ([[User talk:Japarthur|talk]]) 09:23, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

:I do not understand what your point is - perhaps you should explain it differently. The rules that decide whetheer a standard sudoku is filled out correctly are what you state in quotes. The rest - are they strategies the solver may use, rules in certain non-standard sudokus, or what are those? Non-standard sudokus ''are'' discussed in the article; would you like more non-standard types to be described in detail? [[User:Nø|Nø]] ([[User talk:Nø|talk]]) 13:32, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

== "The Japanese Embassy to some country nominated the song to receive some kind of award from someone" ==

This is, actually, a reasonable summary of the source. It's an Australian newspaper taking about a British singer, and just says, "The Japanese Embassy has also nominated [the song] for an award," which is very vague. But the phrasing is weird and could surely be improved? [[User:TRiG|TRiG]] ([[User talk:TRiG|talk]]) 18:41, 21 March 2025 (UTC)