View source for Talk:Soprillo

{{GA nominee|22:05, 14 February 2025 (UTC)|nominator=[[User:Jonathanischoice|Jon]] ([[User talk:Jonathanischoice|talk]])|page=1|subtopic=Music|status=|note=|shortdesc=Type of saxophone}}
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== Invention date ==

Who invented this?  I have found no evidence or indication that Adolphe Sax did.  [[User:Shiggity|Shiggity]] ([[User talk:Shiggity|talk]]) 21:43, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== Name ==

Does anyone really call this instrument anything other than either the "soprillo", or the "piccolo saxophone"? I've had a lot of trouble tracking down where the term "sopranissimo" came from in this context, that isn't connected to this Wikipedia article (renamed in 2009), and saxophonists I know who know of its existence (here in NZ) call it the soprillo. Eppelsheim is still its only maker as far as I am aware. Happy to be disproven/enlightened, but I think we should rename this article appropriately. — [[User:Jonathanischoice|Jon]] ([[User talk:Jonathanischoice|talk]]) 06:41, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
:I think the point is that "Soprillo" is Eppelsheim's brand name for this instrument. A name that would be consistent with other instrument names would be "Sopranissimo".  - [[User:Special-T|Special-T]] ([[User talk:Special-T|talk]]) 14:06, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
::[[User:Special-T|@Special-T]] asserting what it ''ought'' to be called is beside the point: nobody ''actually'' calls it the sopranissimo, all evidence I can find is that somebody just asserted that name here 15-20 years ago and it stuck. It's either a soprillo or a piccolo saxophone. Piccolo is also just as consistent, if not more, c.f. [[piccolo]] (flute), [[piccolo trumpet]], [[piccolo trombone]], [[piccolo oboe]], etc. — [[User:Jonathanischoice|Jon]] ([[User talk:Jonathanischoice|talk]]) 20:52, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
:::Agreed - I'm not advocating for "sopranissimo", just pointing out why there might be some legitimacy to that designation.  "Piccolo" would be (AFAIK) equally tradition-consistent. Plus, "tradition-consistent" might not be that important (although I think it's helpful for clarity's sake). - [[User:Special-T|Special-T]] ([[User talk:Special-T|talk]]) 21:35, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
:Since April 2023, I have not been able to find any [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] that refer to this instrument as ''sopranissimo'', that aren't also [[WP:CIRCULAR]] references that point here, where it was arbitrarily renamed from soprillo in 2009. In what little material I ''can'' find, it is either simply called the ''soprillo'' or occasionally ''piccolo saxophone''. Eppelsheim on his [https://www.eppelsheim.com/instrumente/soprillo/ website] calls it a {{lang|de|B♭-Piccolo-Saxophon}}, which is [[wikt:straight from the horse's mouth]]; CD liner notes by Nigel Wood (''Soprillogy'') and [https://ia902807.us.archive.org/28/items/cd_music-for-like-instruments-the-bb-saxaphon_vinny-golia_0/cd_music-for-like-instruments-the-bb-saxaphon_vinny-golia_0.pdf Vinny Golia] (and Cook & Morton's 2006 [https://archive.org/details/penguinguidetoja0000cook/page/514/mode/2up?q=soprillo Penguin Guide entry] on the same) call it the soprillo. There is not (yet) any mention of the soprillo, or more generally the piccolo-size of saxophone (or even the word "sopranissimo") in the ''Grove Dictionary of Instruments'' (2014), or anywhere else in Grove/OMO, or even the German language ''[https://www.mgg-online.com/search?s=1&n=20&q=soprillo&f=%7B%7D&sectionRestraints=all&collectionRestraints=all MGG Online]''. Cottrell does not mention the tubax or soprillo in ''[https://openlibrary.org/books/OL25377233M/The_saxophone The Saxophone]'' (Yale Instruments series, 2012), which is a curious omission. Of the 11 Wikipedia articles in other languages linked to the [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q163026 Q163026] Wikidata item, Czech uses "sopranissimový saxofon", Italian uses "sassofono sopranissimo", French uses "saxophone piccolo", the rest use "soprillo". In light of this, and unless there's something obvious I've missed, I think we should consider a [[Wikipedia:Requested_moves|move proposal]] to move this article either back to [[soprillo]], or perhaps [[piccolo saxophone]] if we want to capture the more general idea of a ninth teeny-tiny size/class of saxophone. — [[User:Jonathanischoice|Jon]] ([[User talk:Jonathanischoice|talk]]) 05:00, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
:On one hand, I found one printed source, ''[https://archive.org/details/musicdefinitivev0000unse/page/458/mode/2up?q=sopranissimo Music: The Definitive Visual History]'' (DK, 2013) which uses the term ''sopranissimo''. On the other, I've done some more reading of guidelines (particularly [[WP:CRITERIA]], [[WP:NCM]]) and it's clear the article title needs to be the most common name for the thing (which is pretty clearly "Soprillo") with categorised redirects for synonyms ([[piccolo saxophone]] and [[sopranissimo saxophone]]). I suppose once someone else starts manufacturing one, and calls it something else, we can burn that bridge when we get to it and figure out what the size class of saxophone is really called then (although we already have Eppelsheim calling it a piccolo saxophone). — [[User:Jonathanischoice|Jon]] ([[User talk:Jonathanischoice|talk]]) 20:00, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
See also [https://xkcd.com/978/ relevant XKCD] — [[User:Jonathanischoice|Jon]] ([[User talk:Jonathanischoice|talk]]) 00:07, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

== Suggestions and a query ==
Hi, interesting article, as a layperson I learnt a lot about saxophones. It seems the soprillo has some other unique/notable features that could be mentioned in the lead, so perhaps:
:The '''soprillo''', also known as the '''sopranissimo''' or '''piccolo''', is the highest in pitch and smallest [[saxophone]]. It is pitched in [[B♭ (musical note)|B♭]] and is {{convert|13|in|cm|0|abbr=on|order=flip}} long, including the [[mouthpiece (woodwind)|mouthpiece]].
:The soprillo was developed by [[Germany|German]] instrument maker [[Benedikt Eppelsheim]] in the late 1990s to extend the range of the [[saxophone family]]. Its small mouthpiece and [[reed (mouthpiece)|reed]] require professional-level technique from players.<!--from the Soprillo page on Eppelsheim's website--> Compared to other saxophones, little music has been composed for the soprillo due to its extreme pitch and short history. Eppelsheim remains the only manufacturer of piccolo-sized saxophones.
As the article is quite short, I'd be inclined not to repeat Wikilinks. Happy to make changes if there's agreement. Also, I wasn't clear why types of saxophone are in italics but only in the History section? [[User:Arnhemcr|Arnhemcr]] ([[User talk:Arnhemcr|talk]]) 22:24, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
: Hi, only just saw your edits. For words in italics, see [[MOS:WAW]]. I nominated it for GA and only then discovered the origin of the use of ''[[sopranissimo]]'' for a saxophone (a term which almost nobody uses, even for recorders or ukuleles, preferring ''piccolo'' or some other term; certainly no saxophonists I know call it that). So I need to add a bit in the lead about that. The original tiny B♭ size, that qualifies as a fully working instrument, was a hand-made prototype from 1960. The Eppelsheim model was later, in the 1990s. — [[User:Jonathanischoice|Jon]] ([[User talk:Jonathanischoice|talk]]) 22:26, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

== Prototype from 1960 ==

Vanlinthout's instrument was reported stolen in 1981.<ref>{{cite journal |title=Stolen Instrument |journal=FOMRHI Quarterly |number=23 |url= https://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-023.pdf#page=3 |date=April 1981 |page=3}}</ref> It is mentioned the Woodwind Forum, but I don't know if the instrument was ever recovered, or if there was possibly more than one made.<ref>{{Cite web |title=How 'Bout the OTHER Bb Sopranissimos? |work=The Woodwind Forum |date=5 July 2010 |url= https://www.woodwindforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-bout-the-other-bb-sopranissimos.22706/ |access-date=21 March 2025 }}</ref> — [[User:Jonathanischoice|Jon]] ([[User talk:Jonathanischoice|talk]]) 03:27, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

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