View source for Talk:Skid-steer loader

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{{connected contributor (paid)|User1=Chs88|U1-client=Clark Equipment Company (doing business as Bobcat Company)|U1-employer=Clark Equipment Company (doing business as Bobcat Company)}}

==Skid loader==
what does it ''do''? -- [[User:Tarquin|Tarquin]] 20:11 Jan 20, 2003 (UTC)
:Exactly.  what's it useful for?  :-) [[User:Koyaanis Qatsi|Koyaanis Qatsi]]

----
All kinds of things! You can put various implements on the front, but I have personal experience only with the bucket and pallet fork attachments, which in themselves are very usefull. A New Holland LS-180 is what I have used.

With the bucket as shown on the Bobcat  you can load, dump, dig, grade, carry, etc. It makes for an excellent oversized wheelbarrow, particularly when there is are one or more extra persons to load the bucket.

With the pallet forks, you have an all terrain forklift, but they are good for so much more than just pallets! The forks are positionable from between six inches apart, to the full width of the attachment. 

Pushed close together they can break up dirt when digging holes in hard ground making the task much faster than with hand tools alone (strictly speaking this is what an auger or small excavator attachment is for, but you work with what you have.)
Great for starting small holes in hard ground when planting trees.
Just the other day I used the forks in this configuration to quickly and easily remove some medium shrubs that we wanted to transplant. 

With the forks spaced wider you can even do demoliton! Then spread the forks, or put on the bucket to haul the debris.
Then you can use one of these attachments to compress the contents of the disposal dumpster in order to fit as much as possible into it.
--[[User:Knife Knut|Knife Knut]] 03:28, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

:I've seen them used for snow removal. It tends to be for smaller spaces and only when the snow banks are already so high that regular snow plows can't pile it up anymore, but I'm not sure about the precise conditions under which they are used for snow removal. [[User:Bostoner|Bostoner]] ([[User talk:Bostoner|talk]]) 02:50, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

== Move? (1) ==
{{discussion-top}}
I think the correct title is '''Skid-steer Loader'''.  I've never heard the term Skid loader - I would have guessed   that's a type of [[skidder]].  [[User:Toiyabe|Toiyabe]] 23:01, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

: I concur with the title change.  A Google search for "skid loader" returns about 100K items, versus 360K for "skid-steer loader".  Any objections to the title change? [[User:Mmoyer|Mmoyer]] 13:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

:: I agree with the title change also.  "Skid steer" or "skid steer loader" are the terms I see most on a quick survey of major manufacturers' websites, with very few uses of "skid loader". [[User:Ptschett|Ptschett]] ([[User talk:Ptschett|talk]]) 04:15, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it should be moved to [[Bobcat (equipment)]] [[User:Alx xlA|Alx xlA]] 20:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
* It is basically about Bobcat and IR. Move it there. It also talks about other Bobcat products, but it doesn't mention the VersaHandler TTC.[[User:68.151.51.221|68.151.51.221]] 02:58, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Move it to [[Skid steer]]. That's what it is called. --[[User:Rogerhc|Roger Chrisman]] ([[User talk:Rogerhc|talk]]) 22:14, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
{{discussion-bottom}}

== Removal of copyedit tag ==

I read the article and it is much improved since the January version.  I have therefore removed the copyedit tag. [[User:Mmoyer|Mmoyer]] 20:54, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

== Historical content ==

Does anyone else feel that detailed product line histories would be best placed on separate articles?  I could provide a Melroe/Bobcat history which would run as long or longer than the Case/Uni-Loader history, but I would rather put that information under the [[Melroe Manufacturing Company]] or [[Bobcat_(equipment)]] page. 

I propose that after the initial text for how the skid steer loader came to be, major timeline events (company entries into the market, new technologies, etc.) be listed with their dates, instead of having detailed histories for particular product lines.  For example:

Melroe had the 1st hydrostatic drive in 1970<br />
Melroe introduced the "Bob-Tach" quick attachment system, which became the industry standard, in 1970<br />
New Holland entered the market in 1972 with the first vertical path liftarm<br />
Case introduced its first hydrostatic models in 1975<br />
Melroe sold its last clutch drive products in 1982<br />
ASV introduced the first rubber-tracked skid steer loader in 1987<br />
Caterpillar entered a partnership with ASV in 1999 and began selling ASV-tracked "multi terrain loaders" in 2001<br />

etc... (Dates and information may not be correct and my format might not be the best, but you get the idea)

[[User:Ptschett|Ptschett]] ([[User talk:Ptschett|talk]]) 02:24, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

== other compact equipment ==

should not be included here. It could be under further reading, but it's not the subject and could even confuse.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/159.134.94.21|159.134.94.21]] ([[User talk:159.134.94.21|talk]]) 14:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I took the liberty of deleting this section, as it is unrelated to this material, you wouldn't include a section on cars in the truck article because they both use four wheels and are use to transport things, and this is a similar situation. [[User:Moskevap|Moskevap]] ([[User talk:Moskevap|talk]]) 03:13, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
::My opinion  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/159.134.94.21|159.134.94.21]] ([[User talk:159.134.94.21|talk]]) 12:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Requested move (2) ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:polltop -->
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

'''Page moved''' to [[Skid-steer loader]]. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 03:20, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

[[Skid loader]] → {{no redirect|1=Skid steer loader}} – This type of machine is called a "skid steer loader" (sometimes hyphenated, i.e. "skid-steer loader") by the major manufacturers of these loaders (Cat, Deere, CNH, Bobcat, JCB, etc.)  From a quick overview of the manufacturers' sites, "Skid loader" is an unusual term within the industry. [[User:Ptschett|ptschett]] ([[User talk:Ptschett|talk]]) 04:59, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

* '''Oppose''' – Take a look at [http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=skid+loader%2Cskid+steer+loader&year_start=1940&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=0 google books n-gram viewer] to see that most usage is "skid loader" (except in 1988 and 2002); what the manufacturers call them is less important than what others call them.  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 23:17, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
::Three thoughts:
::-Many people call this kind of machine a "bobcat", after the name of the earliest popular brand name; popular usage is not always right.
::-A search of "skid loader" vs "skid steer loader" in Google Books search shows "skid steer loader" with almost twice as many results as "skid loader".  
::-[http://books.google.com/books?id=g98DAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA57&dq=skid%20loader&pg=PA57#v=onepage&q=skid%20loader&f=false This machine] is an example of "skid loader" being used in a sense where the "skid" is what is being loaded, rather than a reference to the steering principle. [[User:Ptschett|ptschett]] ([[User talk:Ptschett|talk]]) 17:28, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
:::What book search links are you using for the result?  It conflicts with the search I linked showing "skid loader" as most common.  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 21:06, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
::::I searched [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22skid+loader%22&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1 "Skid loader"] and [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22skid+steer+loader%22&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1 "skid steer loader"] and compared the number of results. [[User:Ptschett|ptschett]] ([[User talk:Ptschett|talk]]) 23:10, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
::* I would be unhappy if the article was renamed after one manufacturer's brand.  <p>While Dicklyon's assertion that ''"skid loader"'' is the most commonly used term is compelling I think choosing a less ambiguous term would outweigh that.  This is why I preferred ''"[[:Commons:Category:Lake Freighter]]"'' over ''"[[:Commons:Category:Lakers]]"'', which had to be disambiguated to ''"[[:Commons:Category:Lakers (ships)]].  This is why I prefered [[:Commons:Category:Water bomber]] over [[:Commons:Category:Air tanker]].  [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] ([[User talk:Geo Swan|talk]]) 20:44, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
::::It's not clear what position you are taking here?  Support, oppose, or something else?  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 21:06, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
* '''Support'''  [[User:FNQ|FNQ]] ([[User talk:FNQ|talk]]) 08:43, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I revise my opposition, having the studied the article and sources more.  Before I read up, I thought the skid in "skid loader" referred to the thing on the front of the loader arms, which appears to be what it originally meant, like in [http://books.google.com/books?id=g98DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA57 this magazine].  It now seems clear that the first move suggested before this one was on the right track, except for the capitalization; it should be "Skid-steer loader", with the hyphen.  The hyphen is found in some sources, helping the reader understand that "skid-steer" is a compound having to do with steering by skidding; in other sources, they assume the reader will know, and they omit the hyphen, making the naive reader more likely to think that it is a "steer loader" of a skid sort, silly though that seems.  It is WP style to include hyphens when the help the readability by users not that familiar with the material ([[MOS:HYPHEN]]), so "skid steer loader" should be avoided.  It's interesting to that in terms of book counts "skid-steer loader" (neglecting punctuation) is more common than "skid loader", while in terms of n-gram counts it's the other way around; probably books that refer a lot to the device take shortcut of using the shorter name.  Or it could be that some of the "skid loader" hits are the old meaning.  Should I ask the nom to propose a modification to this RM with hyphen, in which case I would support, or should I start a new one as an alternative?  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 03:31, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
::I'm new to the RM process so I'm not sure the best route to modify my request, but I do agree with your logic for including the hyphen and naming the page "skid-steer loader".  [[User:Ptschett|ptschett]] ([[User talk:Ptschett|talk]]) 14:27, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:pollbottom -->

==Bobcat==
Is there an article on Bobcats? [[Special:Contributions/70.24.244.248|70.24.244.248]] ([[User talk:70.24.244.248|talk]]) 06:17, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

:Yes: [[Bobcat Company]] [[User:Ptschett|ptschett]] ([[User talk:Ptschett|talk]]) 15:22, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

== History section needs accurate images ==

This article needs some proper historical images. Here is what is needed, but we need free images of these uploaded to the Commons, to put into the article:
* [http://www.google.com/search?q=bobcat+M200&tbm=isch Google image search: Bobcat M200] - early form, two wheel with caster
* [http://www.google.com/search?q=bobcat+M400&tbm=isch Google image search: Bobcat M400] - evolved form, skid steer as we know it.

Note the awesome minimalism of driver protection, either a tiny grille by the arms, or none at all.

The people that invented the skid steer have their own online museum and physical. Perhaps they'd be willing to contribute an image or two?
* [http://www.skidsteerhistory.com/ www.skidsteerhistory.com]

[[User:DMahalko|DMahalko]] ([[User talk:DMahalko|talk]]) 21:28, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

== Mecanum Wheel? ==

Why is this relevant? Are there kits available for the conversion of skid-steer loaders to Mecanum Wheel loaders? Is this just an chance to highlight an interesting mechanical device?[[User:Joecycle|Joecycle]] ([[User talk:Joecycle|talk]]) 19:03, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

==Request edit==
{{edit COI|A}}

Regarding the first line of the article: "A skid loader, skid-steer loader, skidsteer, or 'bobcat'[citation needed] (as a generic trademark) is a small, rigid-frame, engine-powered machine with lift arms used to attach a wide variety of labor-saving tools or attachments.", I request deletion of "''bobcat' (as a generic trademark)".

The term BOBCAT is not a "generic trademark." Clark Equipment Company (doing business as Bobcat Company) owns many active U.S. federal trademark registrations and many trademark registrations worldwide for the BOBCAT name for use with skid steer loaders as well as other compact construction equipment and related goods and services. It is therefore not correct to say that the entire category of skid steer loaders can be generically referred to as "bobcats," because "a Bobcat" in this context refers specifically to a skid steer loader manufactured by Bobcat Company.

Representative examples of U.S. trademark registrations for the BOBCAT mark include nos. 890,034, 670,566 and 1,604,367. Copies of the registration certificates and information on these registrations are accessible by their registration number through the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office’s Trademark Electronic Search System available at http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/index.jsp. Representative examples of BOBCAT trademark registrations outside the United States include Australian Registration Nos. 707,659 and 198,207 and European Community Registration No. 29,371. Information on these registrations can be easily verified by accessing records through the countries’ trademark offices: https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/trademarks/search/quick and https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/

You can also see discussion of this particular topic on the Talk page for the Bobcat Company article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bobcat_Company

--[[User:Chs88|Chs88]] ([[User talk:Chs88|talk]]) 03:09, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

===Reply 24-MAR-2019===
{{border |[[File:Emojione1_2705.svg|20px]]{{nbsp|2}}'''Edit request implemented'''{{nbsp|2}}|display=table |width=1px |style=solid |style2= |color=black |lh=1}}
* The company in question understandably wishes to avoid this article helping to advance the genericization of their product. The [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Skid-steer_loader&diff=prev&oldid=875031103&diffmode=source edit in question] was not referenced and thus need not stand in the article.
{{added|Additional changes made:}}
* The main article picture of the company's product featuring the brand name Bobcat ''prominently'' was omitted. The descriptions of the other brand names in other photos were all omitted as well.{{efn|A remaining photograph with the name ''Bobcat'' displayed prominently was retained because this photograph only shows the name clearly if it is expanded beyond its thumb size, where the name is more obscured.}} The article ought not to become an arena where varying manufacturers vie to have their product's displayed.<span style="font-size:75%;border:2px solid red;border-radius:50px;font-color:#00008b">[[User talk:Spintendo|<span style="color:#00008b;">&nbsp;<b>Spintendo</b>&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 04:44, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
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