View source for Talk:Shoe size

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== Contradiction in ISO 19407 and shoe size conversion ==

The final section '''Size Conversion''' has the sentence. ''Converted values are rounded to a larger shoe size to increase comfort.'' Yet the tables listed do not consistently carry this out for inexact conversions.

[[User:Karl Palmen|Karl]] ([[User talk:Karl Palmen|talk]]) 10:39, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

::First of all, ISO/TS 19407 actually assumes that US adult and US children's sizes should be shifted {{frac|1|4}} barleycorn or {{cvt|1/12|in|cm|2}} comparing to the UK sizes, but in practice adult sizes are actually shifted by 1 barleycorn (i.e. 1 full size). I have therefore updated the US/Brannock tables and formulas, so finally all the numbers came along quite nicely and I could finish my hand-coded [[:File:Shoe sizes for adults by foot length (multilingual).svg|new visual conversion chart]], which I've been working on for quite some time.

:: Secondly, ISO/TS 19407 assumes that shoe sizes are '''centered ''' on their respective foot length in mm, and each size can also accomodate length variations up to '''a half-step''' in each system (i.e. ±2.5 mm, ±3.33 mm, ±3.75 mm, ±4.23 mm respectively for Mondopoint 5 mm, European, Mondopoint 7.5 mm, and UK/US systems). Therefore half-sizes in EU and UK/US scales are actually overlapping with full sizes, so it's not about rounding up to a next size boundary (as in Mondopoint) but rather about using vertical ruler to find matching full- or half-sizes which are nearest to the centerline. 

::With that consideration in mind, I find that the ISO/TS 19407 adult size conversion tables do align pretty well with my new conversion chart. --[[User:DmitryKo|Dmitry]] <sub>([[User talk:DmitryKo|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/DmitryKo|contibs]])</sub> 23:17, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

== Fractional half-sizes ==

There is no need to use natural fractions for half-sizes in the conversion tables,  it complicates page search even if they look prettier. Product labels always use decimal points anyway. 

Indicating natural fractions makes sense for foot/last sizes and Pariser point sizes which make an [[rational number]] when converted to millimeters, requiring an apporixmation or [[repeating decimal]] notation. --[[Special:Contributions/95.29.161.205|95.29.161.205]] ([[User talk:95.29.161.205|talk]]) 22:17, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

== Uncited and dubious claim that a person with a twelve inch foot takes a size 12 shoe. ==

I have tagged [[shoe size#length]] as uncited and tagged specifically as dubious the claim {{tq|This is the basis for current UK and North American shoe sizes, with the largest shoe size taken as twelve inches (a size 12)}}. (Straight away, a US 12 is smaller than a UK 12.) The article [[foot (unit)]] says {{tq|13 (UK), 14 (US male), 15.5 (US female) or 48 (EU sizing)}}. (It was uncited until I added the citation below). 

Strongly disliking drive-by tagging, I searched the web for an accurate ratio between length and size: the best I found (in terms of clear explanation of derivation and the algorithms) was this: 
* {{cite web |title=Why are shoe sizes as they are?  |last=Melissa |url=https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2016/03/pedestrian-origins-modern-shoe-sizes/ |website=Today I found out |date=30 March 2016 |quote=[...] today in America, the sizing generally adheres relatively closely to a formula of 3 times the length of the foot in inches (the [[Barleycorn (unit)|barleycorn]] length), less a constant (22 for men and 21 for women). [...] In the UK, shoe sizes follow a similar method of computation, except that the constant is 23, and it is the same for men and women. [...] For European sizes, the calculation is much easier at 1.5 times the length in centimeters, plus an additional 2 centimeters "for comfort".}} (12×3=36. US(m): 36−22=14, UK: 36−23=13, EU:30.5×1.5=45.75 then +2 "for comfort" plus rounding = 48)
Unfortunately, todayifoundout.com is identified by the [[User:Headbomb/unreliable|Unreliable/Predatory Source Detector]] as "generally unreliable". That does not assert that this particular citation cannot be used, but a better one should be sought.

Meanwhile, can it be used to correct the existing uncited and dubious assertion? [[User:JMF|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:JMF|talk]]) 13:29, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
:I have made this change to the article: it is better to have a "good enough" citation rather than let uncited speculation stand. --[[User:JMF|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:JMF|talk]]) 16:35, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

== US sizes vs. UK ==

While describing the difference between US and UK sizes, it says the "zero point" for US men's sizes is related to the largest US children's size, AND it says that the first US men's size is "size 1".

This is unclear. Is "size 1" at the zero point? Or does the zero point mean "imaginary size 0, smaller than size 1"?

Maybe "zero point" is a term that works better when confined to the UK, where a size 0 shoe exists. But we can't start calling it a "one point" for the US instead, that would be extremely confusing. I don't know. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 15:25, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== "Customary" US system is a false term ==

In the section on US sizes, we describe a system that we call customary, BUT in the next sentence we explain that what we have just described is not customary. This is insane. [[User:TooManyFingers|TooManyFingers]] ([[User talk:TooManyFingers|talk]]) 05:49, 28 April 2025 (UTC)