View source for Talk:Serotonin

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== "Effects of serotonin deficiency" ==

I attempted to edit out the typos and grammatical problems with this section, but it is still weak. The lengthy discussion of the effects on newborn and maturing mice seems to go nowhere, and the last paragraph is really more of a list than a paragraph. I don't know about others, but I was fooled into thinking the subject of the paragraph was going to be the relation between serotonin and spiritual experience, but then it just sort of abruptly drops that line of thinking and goes on to depression, and then OCD. I didn't want to do a logic edit, because I haven't seen the sources, and it seems like more material is needed, or maybe a complete change of format. Anyway, I hope someone will take a stab at it. [[User:Lehacarpenter|Leha Carpenter]] ([[User talk:Lehacarpenter|talk]]) 06:04, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

The suggestion that low levels of serotonin may be associated with intense spiritual experiences is inconsistent with the article cited. The article in question discusses the relationship between binding potential of the 5HT1a receptor and individuals self reported level of religiosity. [[User:DrSparticle|DrSparticle]] ([[User talk:DrSparticle|talk]]) 00:38, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
:I've removed that line, which was sourced to a blog post anyway.  There's a lot of crap in this article, it could use a good thorough decruftification. [[User:Looie496|Looie496]] ([[User talk:Looie496|talk]]) 00:48, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
:I undid this as the source was legitimate and not a blog. [[User:DrSparticle|DrSparticle]] ([[User talk:DrSparticle|talk]]) 01:03, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

It is also noteworthy that presynaptic 5HT1a receptors function as autoreceptors inhibiting serotonin release, therefor it may infact be true that high levels of serotonin caused by reduced binding of the 1a receptors is responsible for this negative correlation. [[User:DrSparticle|DrSparticle]] ([[User talk:DrSparticle|talk]]) 00:51, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
:If you see issues with the article, you should feel entirely free to fix them.  If there is any way I can advise you on the editing process, please let me know. [[User:Looie496|Looie496]] ([[User talk:Looie496|talk]]) 01:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
:I know I can edit pages any time I like but I thought it a bit more reasonable to discuss the matter first. The source was NOT a blog and you should have given a better reason for removing the item. [[User:DrSparticle|DrSparticle]] ([[User talk:DrSparticle|talk]]) 01:21, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

I undid the deletion because there was not a good enough reason. It was not deleted because another study had different results but because Looie496 seemed to be under the impression that the source was a blog(ie. not legitimate). The item did not concur with the source anyway and I was considering rewriting it and puting it in a different section. If someone had perhaps had the decency to mention the article doi:10.1038/mp.2009.126 that would have been nice. However I still do not see this as good enough reason to completely remove all mention of the original article relating to serotonin and religiosity. A response please. [[User:DrSparticle|DrSparticle]] ([[User talk:DrSparticle|talk]]) 01:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
:Looie496 [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Serotonin&curid=28764&diff=452615201&oldid=452613320#cite_note-pmid14594742-57 removed] a note that "Low levels of serotonin may also be associated with [[Relationship between religion and science#Scientific study of religion|intense spiritual experiences]]. {{cite journal|author = Borg J, Andrée B, Soderstrom H, Farde L|title = The serotonin system and spiritual experiences|journal = Am J Psychiatry|volume = 160|issue = 11|pages = 1965–9|year = 2003|pmid = 14594742|doi = 10.1176/appi.ajp.160.11.1965|laysummary = http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Science-Religion/2004/03/Study-Brain-Chemicals-Key-To-Spiritual-Experience.aspx|laysource = BeliefNet|accessdate = 2010-02-03}}"

:and I support this removal - the source is [[WP:Primary|primary]] and is not even indexed in the [[Web of Science]]. Further, its results were countered in {{doi|10.1038/mp.2009.126}}, which is indexed by WoS. The discussed relation is a strong claim which can not rely on one primary source of questionable notability. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 01:08, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
:Looie496 made no mention of doi:10.1038/mp.2009.126. What does it matter that it is not indexed in the Web of Science? That just means that the article in question was not cited by any other articles. [[User:DrSparticle|DrSparticle]] ([[User talk:DrSparticle|talk]]) 01:38, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
::(correction). The journal is indexed by WoS, but the year 2003 is not covered by WoS for this journal. Thus the major argument here is "strong claim based on single primary source", not WoS coverage. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

== "Antidepressants" ==

Questions the efficacy of regulating Serotonin to treat depression and proposes an alternate theory to its behavior with  no citations, and the last paragraph of the section reads like a series of non-sequiteurs. I don't know enough to correct it, but know sketchy writing when I see it.
January 31, 2010  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.133.41.176|69.133.41.176]] ([[User talk:69.133.41.176|talk]]) 20:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:You'll have to be more specific. The entire paragraph has references, except the last sentence: "This provides evidence for the theory that serotonin is most likely used to regulate the extent or intensity of moods". --[[User:Mark PEA|Mark PEA]] ([[User talk:Mark PEA|talk]]) 20:29, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

== Functions section: are we talking about humans?  or all animals?  or what? ==

I see a problem with the way the "functions" section is written, and it seems to occur in many of the subsections.  The "Effects of food content" section applies only to humans and states this explicitly, the "In the digestive tract" section implicitly applies only to humans, and then it's followed by the "Gauge of social situation" section which starts talking about lobster and crayfish, but then finishes up with a sentence about humans.  Then "Effects on growth and reproduction" talks exclusively about roundworms and fruitflies.

I think that we need to think carefully about the degree to which we should integrate material on human and non-human animals, especially invertebrates.  How similar are serotonin's functions in these animals?  For the functions that are similar, I think we should state (with citing a reliable source) that the functions are similar, and give examples from different animals.

For functions that only apply in humans, or only in mammals, I think we should carefully separate this out.  I think it might make sense to have a major section just for serotonin in humans, and then have separate sections to discuss other animals (and plants).  The article as is is so muddled...it's talking about humans, often implicitly, in one sentence or section and then jumps to talking about invertebrates, then back to humans.  [[User:Cazort|Cazort]] ([[User talk:Cazort|talk]]) 17:48, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== Ideas ==

Some things I think would be worth working on, especially with the bounty in mind ;) I'll try and make progress on these soon:

* History should be expanded. I'm sure there's more to it.
* End of the section on deficiency. How does "intense spiritual experiences" only get one sentence without any explanation? Why does it then jump to OCD in particular? This stuff should probably be rephrased.
* If there's deficiency, then there's excess; what happens with excessive serotonin? Should have a section for this as well.
* Maybe brief explanations about what each of the receptors do.
* Drugs section might do with a mention of St. John's Wort and people taking 5HTP supplements and such.
* I assume most people reading the article are interested in the effects on mood in humans, so to just toss the mention of Tianeptine lowering serotonin in without much discussion is a bad choice IMO.
* The article doesn't really discuss interplay with other neurotransmitters very well.
* I think that the article should devote considerably more space to mental effects in humans.

[[User:Persephone12|Persephone12]] ([[User talk:Persephone12|talk]]) 21:27, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

== Explanation of reverts ==

I just reverted two edits by {{user|88.97.36.161}} that added statements about bone loss to the lead.  I did so because no sources were added, and the sources that are given for those sentences don't say anything about this as far as I can tell.  There does seem to be literature connecting serotonin to bone formation, including literature that is acceptable under [[WP:MEDRS]], but it is very recent and would have to be cited specifically.  So I am not necessarily objecting to the statements, just to the way that they were added without sources, giving an appearance that they were referenced to sources that don't actually have any relevance. [[User:Looie496|Looie496]] ([[User talk:Looie496|talk]]) 01:31, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== "Effects of Food Content" doesn’t jibe. ==
According to calculations at Wolfram Alpha, bananas actually have a lower ratio of tryptophan to leucine and phenylalanine (7.7%) than the ratio in rye bread (9.8%). I confirmed these ratios using nutritional data at http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/. The formula I used is tryptophan/(leucine + phenylalanine). I read the cited source, which defines bread as a “low-SPF” food -- under 10% -- but a banana (using usda nutrition data) would fall under that category as well, despite the source’s claim that it’s a “happy food” which improves serotonin production. I don’t know enough to edit the info correctly, but sufficed to say I’m more confused now since the claim made here at Wikipedia (rye bread vs. banana) appears to contradict its own math. Maybe a better example than a banana is in order? BTW, papaya does work out to 32%, so that one makes sense. But dates (5.4%) do not. Sadly, the citation imbues a credibility that the claim, as stated, doesn’t seem to deserve. Mentioning beneficial foods can be construed as nutritional advice, so I think this is relatively important to get correct.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Blinkozo|Blinkozo]] ([[User talk:Blinkozo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Blinkozo|contribs]]) 07:06, 2 October 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Not a hormone? ==

Serotonin does act as a hormone in the gut.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16378174
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20408856  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/108.16.251.157|108.16.251.157]] ([[User talk:108.16.251.157|talk]]) 19:14, 26 May 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Sexual Perference? ==

In the section: Behavior, Sexual Preference should be replaced with sexual orientation. If there is hormones in the mice, it's not his choice to be with male mice. In my opinion, it doesn't make scene. http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/orientation.aspx
Should we change it to sexual orientation? <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Spyrokid77666|Spyrokid77666]] ([[User talk:Spyrokid77666|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Spyrokid77666|contribs]]) 03:51, 19 September 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Locations/Synthesis ==
The following is confused/confusing and needs elaboration: "Approximately 90% of the human body's total serotonin is located in the enterochromaffin cells in the gut, where it is used to regulate intestinal movements.[2][3] The remainder is synthesized ..."

The first is talking about storage (presumably - is it in fact synthesiszed there?) while the second is talking about synthesis. These two things are not comparable. This needs to be clarified - what are the sources - where is it created/stored/destroyed - how regulated, etc)  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.67.249.169|75.67.249.169]] ([[User talk:75.67.249.169|talk]]) 00:40, 4 November 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Modulating what?==
The link [http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=68FC98F1-E48A-251D-8F65277181DB9A4E No Fair! My Serotonin Level Is Low] says that ''"Serotonin is a chemical messenger thought to modulate depression, anger, sleep, sexuality...even vomiting."'' which is missing from the article as far as I can see. I think it is important to write functional sentences to constitute the "comprehension infrastructure", and that ''"X is an Y doing Z and T"'' is a good pattern for describing what a thing is and does. [[User:Rursus|Rursus]] dixit. ([[User talk:Rursus|<span style="color: red; background: #FFFF80"><sup>m</sup><u>bork<sup>3</sup></u></span>]]!) 10:48, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

== Rotating Molecular Depiction ==

The molecule rotating is not quite the same molecule as in the systematic and ball and stick models, because in the rotating molecule one of the nitrogens is not in the aromatic ring, as it should be. [[User:Jed 20012|Captain Gamma]] ([[User talk:Jed 20012|talk]]) 21:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

== Not enough sources ==

"Effects of food content

In humans, serotonin levels are affected by diet. An increase in the ratio of tryptophan to phenylalanine and leucine will increase serotonin levels. Fruits with a good ratio include dates, papayas and bananas. Research also suggests eating a diet rich in carbohydrates and low in protein will increase serotonin by secreting insulin, which helps in amino acid competition.[18]"

Reference 18 only applies to the last sentence. The three previous sentences do not have any citation. [[Special:Contributions/92.23.38.77|92.23.38.77]] ([[User talk:92.23.38.77|talk]]) 08:08, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

== Blood-brain barrier ==

<blockquote>Unlike its precursors, 5-HTP and tryptophan, serotonin does not cross the blood–brain barrier, which means ingesting serotonin in the diet has no effect on brain serotonin levels.</blockquote>

First, this assertion needs at least one citation to support it. Second, although it may well constitute currently received pharmacological wisdom that serotonin cannot usually cross the normal, healthy, human blood-brain barrier, it's less clear that that is the case for other animals. See for example Nakatani, Yasushi, et al. "Augmented brain 5‐HT crosses the blood–brain barrier through the 5‐HT transporter in rat." European Journal of Neuroscience 27.9 (2008): 2466-2472. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18445233 [full text at http://www.serotonin-dojo.jp/pdf/articles_004.pdf])
[[Special:Contributions/124.186.104.184|124.186.104.184]] ([[User talk:124.186.104.184|talk]]) 01:52, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

== Clots et al. ==

"When the platelets bind to a clot, they release serotonin, where it serves as a vasoconstrictor and helps to regulate hemostasis and blood clotting. Serotonin also is a growth factor for some types of cells, which may give it a role in wound healing."

Presumably the higher or lower than normal volume of platelets would affect the greater or lesser ability to clot, to heal, perchance to digest, or to affect one's mood - does anyone have any thoughts or links.[[Special:Contributions/184.147.109.37|184.147.109.37]] ([[User talk:184.147.109.37|talk]]) 20:10, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

== Removed mood diagram: uncited, no caption. ==

[[File:NorepinephrineDopamineSerotonin.png|thumb]]

I removed this diagram: its claims are uncited, and there is no caption to explain what the relevance is.  If anyone here feels that it is useful, please re-add it, but I would suggest adding a caption explaining the relevance, with references to support the content. --[[User:Slashme|Slashme]] ([[User talk:Slashme|talk]]) 15:22, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

== Innate immunity ==

Serotonin plays a significant role in innate immunity.  The research paper "Indigenous Bacteria from the Gut Microbiota Regulate Host Serotonin Biosynthesis" points out that the mechanisms of gut derived 5-HT are not clear.  The most interesting finding of that paper is the one that has had my edit reversed out.  The types of cells that you get the most serotonin production from are nasty and create very nasty biotoxins. The serotonin causes mobility and so your body rids them as fast as possible. This make enormous sense for innate immunity.

There are serious implication to absorbing the biotoxins instead of eliminating them, as when one has low serotonin production and has constipation issues instead of getting diarrhea. The study found that it is the microbial metabolites that are signaling the EC cells to produce the serotonin.

I started researching serotonin because of an article, http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0013346, Platelet Serotonin Level Predicts Survival in Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis.

I was trying to figure out the best microbials for probiotics to increase serotonin production and when I found the microbes that produced the most serotonin are responsible for making biotoxins like botulism, and other very nasty poisons. 

The species that resulted in the most serotonin were the clostridal species, which produce colostridial toxins, and they produce things like gangrenes.  They are very nasty.

So, low serotonin suggests lower mobility and which leads to greater absorption of biotoxins due to lower mobility.

Innate immunity is very important, and poorly understood.  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Dwot|Dwot]] ([[User talk:Dwot|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dwot|contribs]]) 04:19, 15 August 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:awesome, you found the Talk page!  congrats.  OK, so you want to add content to Wikipedia about health.  The guideline for sources for content about health is here: [[WP:MEDRS]].  The sources you are bringing, are not what MEDRS calls for.  Please read MEDRS and let me know if you have questions.  (please take it slow, there is a lot to learn).  Thanks for talking! [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 04:32, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

::Mainly what Jytdog is saying is that the sources we look for are review papers in high-quality journals, not primary research studies.  Review papers tend to be more reliable in terms of documenting the importance of findings. [[User:Looie496|Looie496]] ([[User talk:Looie496|talk]]) 12:56, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

This one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2694720/ says "The most consistent findings are the increase in plasma 5-HT in diarrheal diseases and reduction in constipation."  The cell study provides information about the colonic EC cells producing the most serotonin in response to colostridial species and they also provide evidence that the "effects of Sp on gut 5-HT are not dependent on Sp-mediated regulatory T cell induction.  

This is extremely important to health.  When was the last time a doctor considered that diarrhea could be helping your body get rid of harmful microbia, or that constipation could be resulting in increased absorption of biotoxins because the body isn't eliminating properly.

This one is looking at constipation in neurological disease, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1738209/pdf/v074p00013.pdf.  So, there is more constipation with neurological diseases.  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Dwot|Dwot]] ([[User talk:Dwot|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dwot|contribs]]) 16:41, 15 August 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Hi Dwot.  Thanks for writing here.  OK...what Wikipedia is all about, is communicating ''accepted knowledge.''  That is described in the policy, [[WP:NOT]].  For health content, we find accepted knowledge expressed in two places - recent review articles, and statements by major medical and scientific bodies (that is what [[WP:MEDRS]] says).  To generate content, we read those sources (recent reviews and statements), and summarize what they say here. giving weight (in other words, space and authority) to various ideas, ''as they are found in those sources'' (that is described in the policy, [[WP:NPOV]]), and we cite the source so others can make sure that the content is accurate, per [[WP:VERIFY]].  What we do not allow here, is what we call "original research", which is described in the policy, [[WP:OR]].  (That makes sense, right?   If what we are expressing is "accepted knowledge" then of course we wouldn't allow anybody's original research into Wikipedia).  Finally, Wikipedia is not a platform for "getting the word out" - this is also described in [[WP:NOT]], in the section called [[WP:NOTADVOCACY]].   These policies I have cited, [[WP:NPOV]], [[WP:VERIFY]], [[WP:OR]], and [[WP:NOT]] are the foundation of the whole encyclopedia.  That is how this place works.
:It seems to me that you are saying: "Source X says A, and source Y says B; in my view A+B - C, and I want to talk about "C" in Wikipedia.   If that is accurate, what you are doing a special kind of "original research" (as we define that here in Wikipedia) called "synthesis", which is described in the part of the OR policy, here: [[WP:SYN]].  If and when a recent review or statement by a major medical/scientific body talks about the relationships among serotonin, gut bacteria, substances made and secreted by gut epithelial and other mucosal cells, and gut motility or lack thereof, we can have content about that in Wikipedia... not until then.
:Does that make sense?  I am sorry (ahead of time) if that is not pleasing, but that is how Wikipedia works.  These policies were established by the community a long time ago, and express the community's consensus of how things work here.  ([[WP:CONSENSUS]] is the bedrock policy, underneath the foundation of those other policies).  Happy to discuss further if you like. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 18:30, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

What I put in was not for "getting the word" out, but a link to a significant unknown mechanism for serotonin regulation buried deep in a 12 page journal article with an additional 11 pages of supplemental information.  I am synthesizing here in the talk page.  What I edited in was without synthesis at all and was left entirely for someone trying to understand serotonin to make sense about.

I was just reading this one, http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com/bacilluslaterosporus.html, "The problem is, I can't find these studies, just the charts!! All I can find that has any medical value and is not here say, are numerous studies over on the American Society of Microbiolgy website that have been performed on over 30 substrains of bacillus laterosporus as an insecticide for mosquito's."  This is a link that people are looking for.  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Dwot|Dwot]] ([[User talk:Dwot|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dwot|contribs]]) 19:50, 15 August 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:yeastinfectionadvisor.com is not a reliable source for health content.... [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 20:02, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Serotonin]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=678141285 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120627200919/http://www.tga.gov.au/adr/aadrb/aadr0408.htm to http://www.tga.gov.au/adr/aadrb/aadr0408.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.

{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}

Cheers. —[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 16:37, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

== both Infoboxes needed ==

I agree with [[User:Sbharris]] that both the [[Template:Infobox neurotransmitter|neurotransmitter infobox]] and the [[Template:Chembox|chemistry infobox]] should be present in this article, in addition to the "navigational" [[Template:Neurotransmitters]] at the bottom of the article.  It is an organic chemical compound of biological (neurotransmitter) importance.  [[User:H Padleckas|H Padleckas]] ([[User talk:H Padleckas|talk]]) 22:27, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
:A much better idea would be to simply add a "Chemistry" or "Physical and chemical properties" section (depending on which project MOS's section title is used) and simply cover the chemical data in the prose.  The chembox doesn't actually contain much chemical data to begin with, so it would be fairly simple to cover it in the text.  Every project MOS for this page (even [[WP:WikiProject Autism]], which defers to [[MOS:MED]]) indicates the addition of a chem section anyway. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 22:51, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
:: Trying to avoid covering physical properties like molar mass, solubility, aciditiy, melting point, etc., in prose, is the reason why we have chemboxes in the first place. This one may not have all the properties of the better characterized organic compounds on WP, but it has many, and there is no earthly reason why it should have all of them, eventually. Pretend it's NOT a neurotransmitter. I see that somebody has done the same thing to [[norepinephrine]], and so the physical properties of the substance (which you see in [[epinephrine]]) are now simply now missing from norepinephrine! This information deletion is close to vandalism. You can think of all that stuff [[as a redlink]] waiting to be filled in. <p> If you can think of a way to include physical data in a single side box, so that it's ALL in a single box, fine, but that's going to be a very tricky task, and not one that is standardized. [[User:Sbharris|<span style="color:blue;">S</span>]][[User:Sbharris|<span style="color:orange;">B</span>]][[User:Sbharris|H]][[User:Sbharris|arris]] 00:27, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
:::All that stuff is in the PubChem entry, isn't it?  I doubt that there is anybody in the entire universe who cares about the melting point of serotonin, but if there is, surely such a person would know enough to look it up on PubChem.  It wouldn't be impossible to expand the infobox to contain more information, but I'm averse to cluttering our articles with information that doesn't matter to anybody.  All of the information in the neurotransmitter infobox has major importance. [[User:Looie496|Looie496]] ([[User talk:Looie496|talk]]) 11:14, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
:::: To you, serotonin may be a neurotransmitter. To a chemist, it's a chemical. If you buy a bottle from Sigma you may care very much what the melting point is, as that gives you an index of purity. Sigma may have made a mistake, or last week they may have changed their source to another fly-by-night supplier in China. If so, they will hardly tell YOU (Sigma's sourcing is the most closely guarded secret they have). The MSDS doesn't have that manufacturer info. The QC sheet may have claims, but SIGMA only puts in what their supplier tells them, and (again) they aren't going to tell you their supplier. Sigma doesn't sell ''chemicals'' really-- they are an information broker and chemicals is how you get the information. Sigma is a middleman retailer between you and hundreds of supplier/jobbers and manufacturers who you'd deal with directly-- if you knew who they were-- and cut Sigma out of the loop.<p> If you are making a derivative of serotonin, you also want to know the M.P. of the first crystals you get back, to see if you merely got your starting reagent. Your other comment mystifies me. Why would anybody look up the mass of the proton on Wikipedia when they can go to CODATA? If Wikipedia deleted all info you could look up someplace else, there would be little left of Wikipedia. [[User:Sbharris|<span style="color:blue;">S</span>]][[User:Sbharris|<span style="color:orange;">B</span>]][[User:Sbharris|H]][[User:Sbharris|arris]] 00:09, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::But would a chemist who wanted to do something like that really look at Wikipedia for the information? [[User:Looie496|Looie496]] ([[User talk:Looie496|talk]]) 12:04, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::: Maybe. If you Google it, you get Wikipedia. On the other hand PubChem actually does not have serotonin's melting point, as best I can tell: [http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/serotonin#section=Chemical-and-Physical-Properties]. So this is looking very bad indeed for your argument. [[User:Sbharris|<span style="color:blue;">S</span>]][[User:Sbharris|<span style="color:orange;">B</span>]][[User:Sbharris|H]][[User:Sbharris|arris]] 01:43, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::::It would look bad if I actually believed that anybody would actually use the information.  I don't find that hypothetical usage case plausible. [[User:Looie496|Looie496]] ([[User talk:Looie496|talk]]) 12:16, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

== Nomenclature ==

Hello everyone. Should not the nomenclature of this molecule be 3-(2-aminoethyl)indol-6-ol? If it's a mistake, it should be corrected so high school students won't get low marks on their assignments. ;) If it isn't, tell me!  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/37.29.217.249|37.29.217.249]] ([[User talk:37.29.217.249|talk]]) 17:42, 6 November 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:In IUPAC nomenclature, the numbering is assigned as depicted in [[:File:Indole numbered.svg]]. The hydroxy group is on the 5-position, not the 6-position.  -- [[User:Edgar181|Ed]] ([[User talk:Edgar181|Edgar181]]) 18:50, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

==Assessment comment==
{{Substituted comment|length=2022|lastedit=20080211072153|comment="However, since 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) does raise blood serotonin levels, it is under some of the same scrutiny as actively serotonergic drugs."

This seems like the sort of unsupported statement that gets kicked out of other articles.

Is someone really scrutinizing 5-HTP to see if it causes cardiac fibrosis?  Who is and how are they doing it?  Is it really getting "some of the same scrutiny" as prescription drugs are receiving?  Why aren't there large numbers of Germans with cardiac fibrosis from taking 5-HTP every day for 20+ years?  Is the normal dose that most people take getting scrutiny or just the massive dose like the one for Parkinson's patients in reference number 9, which was not a study of 5-HTP alone?  In reference 9, carbidopa prevents 5-HTP's metabolism in the liver, which can lead to elevated levels of serotonin in the bloodstream. The co-administration of 5-HTP and carbidopa greatly increases plasma 5-HTP levels, so reference 9 tells us nothing about a dose of 5-HTP alone in people who do not have parkinson's disease.  The group of people experiencing heart valve damage seems to be limited to those with Parkinson's disease.  None of the other references showed any correlation between 5-HTP and cardiac fibrosis.

I could not find anyone studying 5-HTP as a cause of cardiac fibrosis or heart valve problems in people or animals who did not have Parkinson's disease.  The above statement seems to be based on repeated gossip or some secret knowledge known only to the author of the article and should be removed or supported.

This statement seems to have caused some hysteria on the Internet by people who trust Wikipedia and have accepted it as fact.





.....perhaps such comments were sponsored by pharmaceutical companies?  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.15.29.209|74.15.29.209]] ([[User talk:74.15.29.209|talk]]) 07:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->}}
Substituted at 05:48, 30 April 2016 (UTC)


== Addition of Serotonergic Cell Groups to Nervous System Section ==
I intend to add this section to the nervous system section as the separate stub article does not entirlely seem necessary.

''' Serotonergic cell groups '''
Serotonergic cell groups refer to collections of [[neurons]] in the [[central nervous system]] that have been demonstrated by histochemical [[fluorescence]] to contain the neurotransmitter [[serotonin]] (5-hydroxytryptamine).<ref>{{cite journal|author1=Fuxe K |author2=Hoekfelt T |author3=Ungerstedt U |title=Morphological and functional aspects of central monoamine neurons|journal=International Review of Neurobiology|volume=13|pages=93–126|doi=10.1016/S0074-7742(08)60167-1}}</ref> Since they are for the most part localized to classical [[brainstem]] nuclei, particularly the [[raphe nuclei]], they are more often referred to by the names of those nuclei than by the B1-9 nomenclature. These cells appear to be common across most mammals and has two main regions in which they develop; one forms in the [[Midbrain|mesencephlon]] and the [[Brainstem|rostral pons]] (find articles/links) and the other in the [[medulla oblongata]] and the [[Pons|caudal pons]].<ref>R. Nieuwenhuys, J. Voogd, C. Van Huijzen, The human central nervous system: a synopsis and atlas (Springer Science & Business Media, , 2007).</ref>

Nine serotonergic cell groups have been identified.<ref name=Felten>{{cite journal|author1=Felten DL |author2=Sladek JR Jr. |year=1983|title=Monoamine distribution in primate brain V. Monoaminergic nuclei: anatomy, pathways and local organization|journal= Brain Research Bulletin|volume=10 |pages=171–284|pmid=6839182|issue=2|doi=10.1016/0361-9230(83)90045-x}}</ref>

''' B1 cell group '''
Cell group B1 occupies the midline [[nucleus raphes pallidus]] and adjacent structures in the caudal [[medulla oblongata]] of the rodent<ref name=Dahlstrom>{{cite journal|author1=Dahlstrom A |author2=Fuxe K |year=1964|title=Evidence for the existence of monoamine-containing neurons in the central nervous system|journal=Acta Physiologica Scandinavica|volume=62|pages=1–55|pmid=14229500}}</ref> and the primate.<ref name=Felten/>

''' B2 cell group '''
Cell group B2 occupies the midline [[nucleus raphes obscurus]] and adjacent structures in the caudal medulla oblongata of the rodent<ref name=Dahlstrom/> and the primate.<ref name=Felten/>

''' B3 cell group '''
Cell group B3 occupies the midline [[nucleus raphes magnus]] and adjacent structures in the caudal medulla oblongata of the rodent<ref name=Dahlstrom/> and the primate.<ref name=Felten/> Its boundary with the serotonergic group B1 is indistinct.

''' B4 cell group '''
Cell group B4 is located in the floor of the [[fourth ventricle]], in the vicinity of the [[vestibular nuclei]] and [[abducens nucleus]] in the rat<ref name=Dahlstrom/> and in the caudal interstitial nucleus of the medial longitudinal fasciculus of the mouse.<ref name=Paxinos>{{cite book|author1=Paxinos G |author2=Franklin KBJ |year=2001|title=The Mouse Brain in Stereotaxic Coordinates|edition=2nd |publisher=Academic Press|location=San Diego|oclc=493265554}}</ref> A comprehensive study of monoaminergic cell groups in the macaque and the squirrel monkey did not identify a B4 cell group distinct from other groups in the region.<ref name=Felten/>

''' B5 cell group '''
Cell group B5 is located in the midline [[pontine raphe nucleus]] and adjacent areas in the rodent<ref name=Dahlstrom/> and the primate.<ref name=Felten/>

''' B6 cell group '''
Cell group B6 is located in the floor of the [[fourth ventricle]] dorsal to, and between, the right and left [[medial longitudinal fasciculus]] of the [[pons]] in the primate<ref name=Felten/> and the rodent.<ref name=Dahlstrom/> and forms the caudal portion of the [[dorsal raphe nucleus]].

''' B7 cell group '''
Cell group B7 is a group of cells located in the central [[gray matter|gray]] of the pons, the dorsal [[raphe nucleus]] and adjacent structures in the primate<ref name=Felten/> and the rodent.<ref name=Dahlstrom/>

''' B8 cell group '''
Cell group B8 is located in the dorsal part of the [[median raphe nucleus]] (superior central nucleus) and adjacent structures of the [[pontine reticular formation]] of the rodent<ref name=Dahlstrom/> and the primate.<ref name=Felten/>

''' B9 cell group '''
Cell group B9 is a group of cells located in the [[pontine tegmentum]], ventral to serotonergic group B8. In the nonhuman primate they are found in the ventral part of the superior central nucleus and adjacent structures.<ref name=Felten/> In the rodent they have a more lateral location within the [[medial lemniscus]] of the pons and dorsal and medial to it.,<ref name=Dahlstrom/><ref name=Paxinos/>

[[User:EIhannifin|EIhannifin]] ([[User talk:EIhannifin|talk]]) 18:37, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Dubious claims? ==

Dr. Marazziti and his researchers at the University of Pisa in Italy found that depletion of serotonin also occurs in people who have recently fallen in love. This leads to the obsessive component associated with early stages of love.

Should this statement and source be trusted?  It doesn't sound right.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Petergstrom|Petergstrom]] ([[User talk:Petergstrom#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Petergstrom|contribs]]) 19:58, 22 November 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Couldn't even find the source. So I removed the info.--[[User:VeniVidiVicipedia|VeniVidiVicipedia]] ([[User talk:VeniVidiVicipedia|talk]]) 20:56, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

== Oxidation to quinone derivatives ==

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Oxidation-chemistry-and-biochemistry-of-Goyal-Kumar/af2fd2a1ddab4fd669a02b5eb0a5e64d83c5c5cc
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4613-0381-7_47
Serotonin core structure is a para aminophenol which undergoes oxidation readily. Used as a reductant and antioxidant. Oxidation productbof Adrenalin is Adrenochrome and in Wikipedia.
The oxidation of Serotonin is not even mentioned. [[User:TaylorLeem|TaylorLeem]] ([[User talk:TaylorLeem|talk]]) 19:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

== Where's Sunlight Mentioned in the Article? ==

Where is there any mention of the role of sunlight in stimulating the brain to produce serotonin? Isn't this a critical omission from the article? [[User:Stevenmitchell|Stevenmitchell]] ([[User talk:Stevenmitchell|talk]]) 02:57, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
:[[User:Stevenmitchell|Stevenmitchell]] Hi this is a good point. Researchers are working on it. Some new data can be found [https://nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07692-7 here].--[[User:Noemi Barsotti|Noemi Barsotti]] ([[User talk:Noemi Barsotti|talk]]) 13:46, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

== List of physiological effect in introduction ==

I would suggest to modify the sentence "and numerous physiological processes such as vomiting and vasoconstriction" with the following alternative "and numerous physiological processes such as sleep, appetite, vomiting and vasoconstriction". The current choice is very specific and could provide slightly destorted view. As reference you can use the following [https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2012128 Article (Migliarini et al. 2013)]. If there is no objection I will edit it myself. [[User:Noemi Barsotti|Noemi Barsotti]] ([[User talk:Noemi Barsotti|talk]]) 13:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
: I agree with you. I would in fact even start the sentence with "numerous neurovegetative processes such as ..." .--[[User:Ninaniso|Ninaniso]] ([[User talk:Ninaniso|talk]]) 14:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

== Template: Hormones  ==

it is not included in {{t|hormones}}. Do anyone expert can locate serotonin in this template? especially {{ping|Ninaniso}} :- [[User:संतोष गोरे|<span style="color: blue; font-weight: regular; background: linear-gradient( orange, white, green)">Santosh</span>]] 06:51, 27 October 2024 (UTC)