View source for Talk:Selected Ambient Works Volume II

{{Article history
| action1       = PR
| action1date   = 4 April 2024
| action1link   = Wikipedia:Peer review/Selected Ambient Works Volume II/archive1
| action1result = Not reviewed
| action1oldid  = 1217125881

| action2       = GAN
| action2date   = 02:25, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
| action2link   = Talk:Selected Ambient Works Volume II/GA1
| action2result = failed
| action2oldid  = 1219676268


|action3 = GAN
|action3date = 00:52, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
|action3link = Talk:Selected Ambient Works Volume II/GA2
|action3result = listed
|action3oldid = 1271843756
|currentstatus = GA
| dykdate = 9 February 2025
| dykentry = ... that the majority of '''''[[Selected Ambient Works Volume II|Selected Ambient Works Volume&nbsp;II]]''''' was supposedly composed through [[lucid dream]]ing?
| dyknom = Template:Did you know nominations/Selected Ambient Works Volume II
|topic = Music
}}
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{{WikiProject Albums}}
{{WikiProject Electronic music|importance=high}}
{{WikiProject Industrial|importance=low}}
}}
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== Proposed merge of [[Stone in Focus]] into [[Selected Ambient Works Volume II]] ==
{{atopg
| status = merge

| result = Clear enough consensus to merge here, with comments that a significant part has already been incorporated. I'll leave the merging to the editors. <span style="font-family:Verdana">[[User:Steven Crossin|<span style="color:#078330">Steven</span>]] [[User talk:Steven Crossin|<span style="color:#27a">Crossin</span>]] <sup>[[WP:DRN/V|<span style="color:#d81">Help resolve disputes!</span>]]</sup></span> 04:51, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
}}

The sourcing in this song article pertains more to the album re-release. Everything there is to say here can be adequately covered within the re-release's section of the existing album article. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 15:04, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

:'''Merge'''. I think the Expanded Edition and Track listing sections already cover the track's release history, and we could merge the rest of the article into Reception and Composition quite easily. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 15:12, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::Just popping in to say that most (if not all) of the major content from both "[[Stone in Focus]]" and "[[Th1 (evnslower)|th1 [evnslower]]]" has been added to this article. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 21:21, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:'''Oppose''', as the song was released as a single and is already notable enough to be a standalone song. If [[th1 (evnslower)]] can be a single, this shouldn't even be a question. Additionally, the song came out on original vinyl pressings, so it would be a bit odd to only include it on the re-release section. Why would you have an entire sub-section for a song that already had a life of its own before the re-release? [[User:Paradox NiteOwl|'''Paradox NiteOwl''']] <sup>[[User talk:Paradox NiteOwl|(Discussion?)]]</sup> 16:47, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
::Which sources justify a standalone article? Plenty of singles are merged into their parent album articles when they lack significant coverage themselves. I can't see how we'd build a dedicated article based on the sources currently in the article. Anything noteworthy that is to be said about the track can fit within this article. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 20:04, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' The other article does not meet GNG. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">[[User:Cambial Yellowing|<i style="color:#999900">Cambial </i>]]— [[User talk:Cambial Yellowing|<b style="color:#218000">foliar❧</b>]]</span> 00:53, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
{{abot}}

== 33⅓ ==

@[[User:Beachweak|Beachweak]], while we wait for the GA reviewer to return, I was surprised to see that the Weidenbaum 33{{1/3}} book was barely used within the article. Certainly there is much expansion needed there as part of the [[WP:GACR|GA breadth criterion]]? <span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 20:07, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
:That was my very first comment in this article's [[Talk:Selected Ambient Works Volume II/GA1|first GA review]]. That book needs to be utilized substantially more than it currently is. – '''[[User:Zmbro|zmbro]]''' <sub>([[User talk:Zmbro|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Zmbro|cont]])</sub> 21:03, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
:I actually rented a digital copy of this book for the purpose of expanding the article as I had seen the previous GA review, but found it wasn't really ''that'' helpful. The article already covers a lot of it's content in depth and the most use I could see for it is extra citations for claims already in the article. I wouldn't mind renting it again if people still believe it should be more heavily used, I can probably still find something usable, but that's just my thoughts. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 21:38, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
::Some of the topics that I can see it adding for breadth: the background of "On" preceding SAW II, the idea that SAW II was a prank/joke, the earlier publication of "Blue Calx", the Wisp remixes, context on how Eden named the tracks, the afterlife of those names (e.g., they were used on iTunes), compositions on the Alarm Will Sound album, uses in film and dance, influence on later Aphex Twin releases, expansion from contemporaneous reviews, descriptions of the tracks, James's taciturn reputation, and so on. There's a lot in here for basic topical breadth. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 22:32, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Haha, way to prove me wrong. Thank you for the guidance of topics to cover. I've re-rented it and will get to work on expansion shortly. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 22:34, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I've just finished going through the book and adding new content. The book is now cited a LOT (possibly a bit too much, not a bad thing though) and the article features new content across all fronts. Let me know what you think. I also fixed a statement about the composition that failed verification with a new one that's fully cited.
:::I aim to go through the rest of the past GA review to fix things up either tonight or tomorrow. I would also like to comment on the "cursory" recording information you mentioned in the GA review; there really isn't a lot of information about how this album was recorded. The information present in the article took a full week of searching through articles through both Rock's Backpages, archive.org and other archives of publications. Richard really didn't reveal much about how this album was composed aside from the comments mentioned. I think having it is better than no recording information at all, though.
:::Again, thank you for your help and suggestions that you've given. I hope we can fix up the article to GA standards. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 00:52, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::::(courtesy pinging @[[User:Czar|Czar]])<span id="LunaEclipse:1736557550466:TalkFTTCLNSelected_Ambient_Works_Volume_II" class="FTTCmt"> —&nbsp;💽 [[User:LunaEclipse|<span style="color: purple;">LunaEclipse</span>]] 💽 🌹 ⚧ <sup>('''[[User talk:LunaEclipse|<span style="color:#462713;">CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST</span>]]''')</sup> 01:05, 11 January 2025 (UTC)</span>
::::No page numbers..? – '''[[User:Zmbro|zmbro]]''' <sub>([[User talk:Zmbro|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Zmbro|cont]])</sub> 01:56, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::Added. I used [[Template: Reference page]] for page numbers, hope that's alright. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 02:08, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::The page numbers don't appear to match the print book. Are they from the digital version/epub? Because those page locations are dynamic depending on how the book is displayed. Here's [https://books.google.com/books?id=f-WnAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA20 print page 20] compared to what's cited in {{alink||Retrospective views}}. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 02:35, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This is really not my day.. I'm working from the Amazon Kindle web version of the book which seems to include the contents page as part of the page numbers. Is there a better alternative? [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 02:40, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::The best option is to cite the print pages because those will be the most specific and consistent. The alternative I've most commonly seen for citing digital versions is to give the location (i.e., the chapter) rather than the page. But {{tlx|rp|2=at=ch. 2}} can get clunky with text inline, so I recommend {{tlx|sfn|2=ps=, ch. 2, "Beginning of quote trailing off..."}} as being better for verification. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 03:02, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::I found out Google Books allows for you to search specific quotes and it will return a page number of the print version, so I've went ahead and hopefully updated them to the correct numbers this time. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 04:00, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::I typically use [[Template:Sfn]] in my articles, but not every page has to be the same. Only problem now is that some sources have page numbers in the template while the 33&1/3 source now doesn't. You typically want things to be consistent... – '''[[User:Zmbro|zmbro]]''' <sub>([[User talk:Zmbro|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Zmbro|cont]])</sub> 18:19, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
{{outdent|::::::::::}} I know when to admit defeat, and if my current solution isn't acceptable, then I need the help of somebody to properly fix it; this may be beyond my expertise. I attempted to use [[Template:Sfn]] but ran into various issues and errors that made it unreliable. Right now, this is the best I can do unless someone jumps in. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 01:03, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:Czar|Czar]], since the addition of content from the 33 1/3 book has been mostly addressed, do you think you could take the GA review off hold and start looking at the article? I know another comment was to use Newspapers.com for more sources, but I should be able to do that while other improvements are being suggested and would be more efficient. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 23:21, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::Yes, I'll take a look this week. Also [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Selected_Ambient_Works_Volume_II&diff=prev&oldid=1269107865 here] is an example of how to convert {{tlx|rp}} to {{tlx|sfn}}, if you can do the rest. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 02:24, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Thank you for the example - just finished converting everything to {{tlx|sfn}}. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 11:37, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

== Removed review sources ==

{{Refbegin}}

* {{cite news|title=Compilations Of Music To Rave By|newspaper=[[Chicago Sun-Times]]|date=8 May 1994|access-date=16 October 2016|last=DeRogatis|first=Jim|author-link=Jim DeRogatis|p=5}}
* {{cite magazine|title=Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works Vol. II|magazine=[[Q (magazine)|Q]]|issue=365|date=November 2016|page=100|issn=0955-4955|oclc=21893115}}

{{Refend}}

These sources were both recently removed. Leaving them here in the event the citation can be completed and requested in the future. Note that the Chicago Sun-Times archive uses Newsbank, which isn't in [[WP:TWL]] or widely accessible. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 22:04, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|Beachweak|czar}} is the Chicago-Sun Times article available on Newspapers.com? 💽 [[User:LunaEclipse|<span style="color: purple;">🌙'''Eclipse'''</span>]] 💽 🌹 ⚧ <sup>('''[[User talk:LunaEclipse|<span style="color:#462713;">CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST</span>]]''')</sup> 22:28, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
::My searches are coming up with nothing for both the specific article in question, and any articles from the Chicago Sun-Times in general. [[User:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Beachweak</span>]] [[User_talk:beachweak|<span style="color: #E50160; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 22:40, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I did a search of the standard newspaper aggregators and didn't see Chicago Sun-Times in there but I've put in an interlibrary loan request that should help track it down (similar to [[WP:RX]] but more consistent). <span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 01:52, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
Here's the related passages. I've also updated the citations above. Ultimately not a lot to use.
{{talkquote|Many of the records popular at raves are still issued as 12-inch vinyl LPs, designedto be used by DJs at the
events. But in the past year, a slew of compilations have appeared on compact disc. ... In a music scene driven by anonymous DJs, the Orb, Moby and the Aphex Twin are the closest to being "stars." All of their albums have been prime examples of ambient or acid house; "Selected Ambient Works, Vol. II" is a (STAR)(STAR)(STAR) 1/2 album by the Aphex Twin just released on a major label, Sire/Warner Bros. |source=Sun-Times (that's all it says related to the album)}}
{{talkquote|Richard D. James doubled down on his reputation for puckish enigma with 24 ambient instrumentals identifiable only by photographs of lichen, rhubarb, stone, etc. (four stars)|source=Q (single-sentence capsule review)}}
<span style="background:#F3F3F3; color:inherit; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 13:22, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

:Thank you for tracking these passages down! Shame there's not a lot usable. I could possibly work the Q review into the Reception section but I don't think the Sun-Times is really usable at all. [[User:Rambley|<span style="color: #FB970B; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Rambley</span>]] [[User_talk:Rambley|<span style="color: #FB970B; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 13:29, 23 January 2025 (UTC)
::Q magazine has been added. [[User:Rambley|<span style="color: #FB970B; font-family: Courier; font-weight: bold;">Rambley</span>]] [[User_talk:Rambley|<span style="color: #FB970B; font-family: Courier;">(talk)</span>]] 17:19, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

==Did you know nomination==
{{Template:Did you know nominations/Selected Ambient Works Volume II}}