View source for Talk:Sea of Japan naming dispute

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==GA Reassessment==
{{Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Sea of Japan naming dispute/1}}

== Edit the article title ==

It seems that there are multiple articles related to naming disputes whose titles demonstrate multiple names in dispute.

Here are the examples.

[[Gulf of Mexico–America naming dispute]]

[[Denali–Mount McKinley naming dispute]]

Isn't it more appropriate to follow them and modify this article's title into "Sea of Japan-East Sea naming dispute"? [[User:RaveEffect|RaveEffect]] ([[User talk:RaveEffect|talk]]) 08:43, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
:That's something worth looking into. I think we should get a few more people's opinions before boldly moving. May I suggest you doing an official move request? That way we can get the community involved. [[User:Masterhatch|Masterhatch]] ([[User talk:Masterhatch|talk]]) 14:19, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you for the opinion. I will request the move and see how others think of it :) [[User:RaveEffect|RaveEffect]] ([[User talk:RaveEffect|talk]]) 06:03, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

== Requested move 18 April 2025 ==

<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: var(--background-color-success-subtle, #efe); color: var(--color-base, inherit); margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted var(--border-color-subtle, #AAAAAA);"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color: var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] '''after''' discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''

The result of the move request was: '''Not Moved''' per WP:CONCISE <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small> <span style="font-family:Monospace;color:black">>>>&nbsp;[[User:Extorc|<span style="color:purple">Extorc</span>]].[[User_talk:Extorc|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]]</span> 07:30, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
----

[[:Sea of Japan naming dispute]] → {{no redirect|Sea of Japan-East Sea naming dispute}} – There are some articles about naming dispute whose titles include other variant names in dispute as well. For example, there are [[Gulf of Mexico–America naming dispute]] and [[Denali–Mount McKinley naming dispute]]. I believe that it is more reasonable to mention the names in dispute from the beginning because it is more precise way to explain the disputes about the names. Can we rename this page to follow this convention? [[User:RaveEffect|RaveEffect]] ([[User talk:RaveEffect|talk]]) 06:45, 18 April 2025 (UTC) <small>—&nbsp;'''''Relisting.'''''&nbsp;[[User:Cyberdog958|<span style="color:navy;">''cyberdog''</span><span style="color:orange;">'''958'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Cyberdog958|<span style="color:teal;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 14:13, 25 April 2025 (UTC)</small>
:I've  redone the request using ''{{subst:requested move'' as advised in the hatnote. I'm out of my depth here, but it seems to me that a review of all articles related to these sometimes-so-called "naming disputes" is in order, considering the namings by the [[International Hydrographic Organization]] -- almost all nations are member states of that organization, including most or all nations said in those articles to be involved in naming disputes. [[User:Wtmitchell|Wtmitchell]]  [[User talk:Wtmitchell|(talk)]] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 07:21, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' May I suggest "[[Sea of Japan–East Sea naming dispute]]" instead? [[User:Masterhatch|Masterhatch]] ([[User talk:Masterhatch|talk]]) 07:26, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
*:I agree. I couldn't catch '–' was being used insted of '-' [[User:RaveEffect|RaveEffect]] ([[User talk:RaveEffect|talk]]) 08:19, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
:<small>Note: [[Wikipedia talk:INACTIVEWP|INACTIVEWP]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China|WikiProject China]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Russia|WikiProject Russia]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Oceans|WikiProject Oceans]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea|WikiProject Korea]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geography|WikiProject Geography]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject International relations|WikiProject International relations]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan|WikiProject Japan]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject East Asia|WikiProject East Asia]], and [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics|WikiProject Politics]] have been notified of this discussion. '''<span style="font-family: 'Georgia';">[[User:Valorrr|<span style="text-shadow:2px 2px 2px #a6a6a6"><span style="color: #8c8c8c;">Valorrr</span></span>]] <span style="color: #000000"><sup>([[User talk:Valorrr|<span style="color: #000000"><span style="text-shadow:2px 2px 2px #8c8c8c">lets chat</span></span>]])</sup></span></span>''' 16:28, 18 April 2025 (UTC)</small>
:'''Support''' follows naming convention established by similar articles. Just make sure we're using an en dash, not a hyphen. [[User:RachelTensions|RachelTensions]] ([[User talk:RachelTensions|talk]]) 16:43, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
:'''Support''' Clarifies what the duspute is.  --[[user:Altenmann|Altenmann]] [[user talk:Altenmann|>talk]] 17:36, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per nom [[User:seefooddiet|seefooddiet]] ([[User talk:seefooddiet|talk]]) 01:38, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
* '''Support''' per nom. To clarify that there is a dispute between the two names. '''''Warm Regards''''', [[User:Miminity|Miminity]] ([[User talk:Miminity|Talk?]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Miminity|me contribs]]) 07:11, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
* '''Not so fast''': See the suggestion from [[User:Eyer|Eyer]] in the RM I just opened at [[Talk:Gulf of Mexico–America naming dispute#Requested move 19 April 2025]]. —⁠ ⁠[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 20:33, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
*:Thanks, @BarrelProof. It seems like we don't need to spell out the two disputed names in the article title. (What if there were more than two disputed names, for that matter...?) Instead, we can use the generally accepted common name of the geographic feature—in this case "Sea of Japan naming dispute"... and then explain multiple disputed names in the article itself. —[[User talk:Eyer|<span style="color:hotpink;"><b>Eyer</b></span>]] (he/him) <small>If you [[H:TP#Replying to an existing thread|reply]], add <code><small>&#123;&#123;reply to|Eyer&#125;&#125;</small></code> to your message.</small> 20:38, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
*::'''Oppose''' per Eyer. The current title is more [[WP:CONCISE]] and more common in English than the suggested one. Adding the other name would only be attempting a [[false balance]]. We should consider the common name in independent reliable sources written in the English language, not politically motivated attempts to manipulate language. —⁠ ⁠[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 17:23, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I'm weakly support the name change for this article, but giving that there also exist similar page move request ([[Talk:Gulf of Mexico–America naming dispute#Requested move 19 April 2025|for Gulf of Mexico]]), i'm suggest this discussion be close and merge with Gulf of Mexico naming dispute discussion in the link above. For me, having two page move discussion with similar contents seem redudant. [[Special:Contributions/2404:8000:1037:469:E118:746C:5176:1E50|2404:8000:1037:469:E118:746C:5176:1E50]] ([[User talk:2404:8000:1037:469:E118:746C:5176:1E50|talk]]) 00:03, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
*:I agree [[User:Masterhatch|Masterhatch]] ([[User talk:Masterhatch|talk]]) 00:47, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. I agree with [[User:Eyer]]. What if there are 3 disputed names? Do we include all in the title? What if there's a 4th disputed name that is lesser known? Does that get put into the title too? I think the current title is best. [[User:Masterhatch|Masterhatch]] ([[User talk:Masterhatch|talk]]) 03:13, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. ''Sea of Japan naming dispute'', as it stands, is the most concise title for the subject. Mentioning more than two names is only appropriate if multiple names for the area are equally common in English. It is the Gulf of Mexico dispute article that needs to be renamed. [[User:Ringo62|Ringo62]] ([[User talk:Ringo62|talk]]) 08:17, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' – "Sea of Japan" is the common name in English and the proposed title is much less [[WP:concise|concise]]. While I mean no offense to those who support calling it the East Sea, putting both names in the title seems like [[false balance]]. (Also, if this is moved, the title should use an en dash and not a hyphen.) [[User:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">'''Toadspike'''</span>]] [[User talk:Toadspike|<span style="color:#21a81e;font-variant: small-caps;font-weight:bold;">[Talk]</span>]] 20:01, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''{{snd}}Common name ''in English'' takes primacy. <big>[[User:Yue|<span style="color:#757575; font-family:Consolas, monospace">''Yue''</span>]][[User talk:Yue|🌙]]</big> 22:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. I leaned support initially and have changed my view after following this for a few days and considering points raised above. On balance, the current article title fulfills the naming criteria better than the alternatives. [[Sea of Japan]] is the common name for this body of water in English. Recognizability at [[WP:CRITERIA]] states: {{tq|The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize.}} The descriptive title for this article is recognizable and reasonably natural and precise, both because of the common name for the body of water and because anyone familiar with the dispute will understand what is being described. The current title is obviously more concise. As for consistency, there is currently an "article title dispute" (RM) over one of the articles the nom mentions. Most of the entries at [[List of geographical naming disputes]] include only one geographical name in the article title. There are good reasons why some of these article titles would be "inconsistent" based on the particular factors at play in a given dispute, but broadly there is no pattern or practice of including multiple disputed names in article titles.    --[[User:Myceteae|<span style="font-family: verdana; color: blue;"><b>MYCETEAE</b></span>]] 🍄‍🟫—[[User talk:Myceteae|<span style="font-family: verdana;"><i>talk</i></span>]] 19:21, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''', the article suggests that there is potentially a third name "Korean East Sea" for North Korean use, so a title ideally should have all contested names or just the sole most common. Which, under [[MOS:GEO]] and [[WP:CONSUB]] we must use the same name as the parent article (as the title is also descriptive) which is merely only titled "[[Sea of Japan]]". As well as the current being [[WP:CONCISE]] enough. '''[[User:DankJae|<span style="color: black">Dank</span>]][[User talk:DankJae|<span style="color: red">Jae</span>]]''' 22:03, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:* '''Support''' - per [[WP:CONSISTENT]], [[WP:NPOV]]
:[[User:Thehistorianisaac|Thehistorianisaac]] ([[User talk:Thehistorianisaac|talk]]) 14:47, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
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