View source for Talk:Saif al-Adel

{{Talk header}}
{{controversial}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=yes|listas=al-Adel, Saif|class=B|1=
{{WikiProject Biography|military-work-group=y}}
{{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|terrorism=yes|terrorism-imp=mid|importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Egypt|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Military history|class=B|US=y|South-Asian=y|Middle-Eastern=y|Intel=y|b1=y|b2=yes|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes}}
{{WikiProject United States|importance=Low|911=yes|FBI=yes|FBI-importance=Low}}
}}
{{Contentious topics/talk notice|ipa}}

{{Daily pageviews|scale=log}}

==Speculation==
The last part of this article is pure speculation, unless someone can provide some evidence to the contrary. I have rewritten. [[User:145.253.108.22|145.253.108.22]] 11:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

==Another Saif==
Little is known about [[Saif al-Islam al-Masri]] but he has been addressed by the enemy as "the older Saif". Theory: al-Adel could be the other and younger one. Both are Egyptians (al-Masri) and both are said to have been members of al-Qaeda's "military committee", which would explain the use of their ages to tell them apart. [[User:LDH|LDH]] 05:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

==Disputed issues and source problems==

Whether Sayf al-`Adl is the same person as Muhammad Makkawi, former Colonel in the Egyptian Special Forces, is by no means established; there is in fact a good deal of evidence that they are not the same person.  There is abundant reporting on this in the Arab press; one need only do an Arabic google search on Muhammad Makkawi to find scores of such articles.  

The article states that "some intelligence reports[7] indicate that the Iranians, most notably Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, hope Saif al-Adel will rise to a senior position in al-Qaeda, in hopes of taking the reins as bin Laden's health wanes."  This article in the Telegraph (UK) by Con Coughlin provides absolutely no source or evidence for this assertion, and Coughlin is unique in making this claim (though other articles in the Telegraph have made similarly unsourced and exaggerated claims about Iran's relationship with al-Qa`ida).  I'm going to change the wording here to "one journalist claims that..."  [[User:Masarra|Masarra]] 22:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

==Okay :)==
I deleted the tacky speculation about Ahmadinejad, and I adjusted the bit about Makkawi. Personally I was worried that if al-Adel left Egypt in 1985, aged only about 25, how could he be a colonel? I'll scope around the Arab press a little. [[User:LDH|LDH]] 00:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

LDH - Saif didn't leave Egypt in '85; he was imprisoned in '87 in connection with the "Higher National Security Case 401," on charges of attempting to revive the al-Jihad Organization (tanzim al-jihad) and attempting to assassinate ex-Interior Minister Hasan al-Basha and journalist Makram Muhammad Ahmad.  He was in prison until at least '89, possibly 1990, at which point he moved to South Asia.  In his piece on Zarqawi Saif says that at the time of his arrest in '87 he'd achieved the rank of colonel in the Egyptian Special Forces.  It does seem odd for someone to have such a rank at the age of ca. 27, but I don't know, maybe Egyptian military promotion in the '80s was different than we'd assume.  
Here's a site that sums up some of the evidence: http://www.metransparent.com/texts/seif_makkawi_intro.htm; there're other details in various articles in al-Sharq al-Awsat authored by Muhammad al-Shafi`i.  In Middle East Transparent site you'll see that it's claimed that Makkawi, at the time a colonel, quit the Egypytian military because of the Camp David Accords, which took place in 1978 - nearly ten years prior to the time when Saif says he was a colonel. [[User:Masarra|Masarra]] 02:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

:Thanks very much Masarra. [[User:LDH|LDH]] 04:26, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

== He trained alongside Hezbollah Al-Hejaz ==

The article mentions Saudi Hezbollah so I changed the link from Lebanese to Saudi.  What I do not understand is how an Al Qaeda man is training with Shiites, although I am not clear about the affiliation of Saudi Hezbollah.  I think the reference cited in the article might be from a bogus expert.  I am not an expert myself, but this needs a better explanation given the history of Sunni Shiite violence and Al Qaeda being extremist Sunni.[[User:Geo8rge|Geo8rge]] ([[User talk:Geo8rge|talk]]) 22:41, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

== Real name ==

I thought that the last paragraph of the lead was inconsequential, so I deleted it. Only to later find out that the mistaken identity was very important, as Saif al-Adel's real name was thought to be Mohammed Ibrahim Makkawi up until the person with that name was arrested in Cairo. After this incident, press reports and specialist publications refer to al-Adel's real name as Mohammed Salah al-Din Zaidan (or Zidan). And the FBI Most Wanted poster still reports his name as Makkawi and not Zaidan. Here are some sources about the misidentification. The last paragraph should stay, but be rewritten to make clear its significance. 

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/saif-al-adel
https://www.dawn.com/news/640191
http://english.aawsat.com/theaawsat/features/will-the-real-saif-al-adel-please-stand-up
https://www.ctc.usma.edu/posts/the-last-hope-for-the-al-qaida-old-guard-a-profile-of-saif-al-adl

-&nbsp;[[User:Mnnlaxer|Mnnlaxer]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[User talk:Mnnlaxer|<span style="font-weight:normal">talk</span>]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Mnnlaxer|stalk]] 21:15, 10 March 2017 (UTC)