View source for Talk:Sabines

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==Comments==

Please add a picture, e.g. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Etruscan_civilization_map.png/305px-Etruscan_civilization_map.png  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wthjmkuiper|Wthjmkuiper]] ([[User talk:Wthjmkuiper|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wthjmkuiper|contribs]]) 12:38, 9 March 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Why should this pic be added? The Sabines were not Etruscan, did not live in Etruria.[[User:Botteville|Dave]] ([[User talk:Botteville|talk]]) 16:02, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

How do you pronounce it, then, if it's not "sobbin"? [[User:Thechickennuggit|Nuggit]] 01:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The produced oil in this region, I assume it's olive oil, not the black stuff? [[User:Jheijmans|Jeronimo]]

:Yes, and apparently the article has been edited to reflect that. [[User:Ellsworth|Ellsworth]] 19:36, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I AM A SABINE WOMEN. MY LAST NAME IS SABINE AND MY FAMILY CAME FROM ITALY. [[Special:Contributions/71.97.208.65|71.97.208.65]] ([[User talk:71.97.208.65|talk]]) 22:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:Well I am glad you are proud of the heritage. The Sabine families at Rome were said to have been proud of it too.[[User:Botteville|Dave]] ([[User talk:Botteville|talk]]) 11:42, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

==Claudius==
No mention of Attius Clausus?
:Fixed now[[User:Botteville|Dave]] ([[User talk:Botteville|talk]]) 16:00, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

==Male Name==
It says there is no male variant of the name but the Russian Savely/Saveli/Saveliy is masculine and means Sabine.

[[User:Que?|Que?]] ([[User talk:Que?|talk]]) 21:58, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

:Although not very common, the male given name ''Sabino'' exists in Portuguese, too, along with the female ''Sabina'' - and although I don't know for sure in this case, when a name exists in Portuguese, it nearly always exists in Spanish and often in Italian as well (or some very close variation). So, I have added the {{Dubious}} tag linking to this Talk page. I know that in German-speaking countries ''Sabine'' is indeed an exclusively female name with no corresponding male form, but I don't know if the same phenomenon happens in other languages as well, and I had no sources to substantiate the claim, so I felt I was not qualified to correct the sentence and just added the tag.

:I also added the {{Fact}} tag to the end of the same paragraph because it sounds rather conjectural. I considered adding the {{or}} tag instead, but I thought that the author of that phrase should have a chance to add his or her sources, if any. However, in my opinion, the whole paragraph is in need of a rewrite, and maybe even deletion, even though I believe the information on derived names (both female and male) is interesting and within context. --[[User:UrsoBR|UrsoBR]] ([[User talk:UrsoBR|talk]]) 19:17, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

::Indeed in Spanish both Sabino (male) and Sabina (female) exist both as a firstname and as a surname (less common). [[Special:Contributions/88.25.193.46|88.25.193.46]] ([[User talk:88.25.193.46|talk]]) 23:29, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't see any of this as relevant to this article. In fact, see below.[[User:Botteville|Dave]] ([[User talk:Botteville|talk]]) 18:55, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

==First Bride Kidnapping==

As noted on the actual wiki on 'Bride Kidnapping' the Tribe of Benjamin among the nation of Israel engaged in kidnapping brides as recorded in the book of Judges, the 21st chapter.  This is referenced in great detail on the page about the 'Battle of Gibeah'.  Even if the 'Biblical Account' section on the latter page is correct in speculating that certain events were added by the 'deuteronomist' and if the eponymous article is correct about the historical setting of that scribe's writing, the account found in judges pre-dates the accounts of Romulus' and the Sabines by several centuries.
[[User:Kabbak|Kabbak]] ([[User talk:Kabbak|talk]]) 20:10, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
:Well that's interesting Kabbak. It sounds like a grand thesis. First you would have to demonstrate that bride-kidnapping was general in the Mediterranean and then you would have to find probable cause that Roman bride-kidnapping was related. I do not know if it has been done already; if not, you can't do it here, it is original research. If it has as I say you need to document it. It is a great idea though and I certainly encourage you along those lines. However, you think too much of us, kid.[[User:Botteville|Dave]] ([[User talk:Botteville|talk]]) 18:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

==Populating what town==

In the legend of the sabine women section:
What is "the town" the Romans were trying to populate? Rome?
[[User:Que?|Que?]] ([[User talk:Que?|talk]]) 03:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:Correct.[[User:Botteville|Dave]] ([[User talk:Botteville|talk]]) 18:49, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

==Sabine lore in modern culture==
Didn't we decide not to do this sort of thing? We can have a "Sabine" disambig page or we can distribute this material to other articles more relvant. This article is about the ancient Sabines and this material is not it. I'm not inclined to work on this aspect myself so I am putting this here so you may work on it.[[User:Botteville|Dave]] ([[User talk:Botteville|talk]]) 19:00, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

"Sabine" as a feminine [[given name]], which originally meant "a Sabine woman", has spread from Latin to various European languages, being especially common in [[German language|German]]. Significantly, there is no similar male name except in Spanish, the name Sabino is common among Basque people; the existence of the female name seems to indicate that, whatever the veracity of the above legend (the product of a long oral tradition) there were at some time women in Roman society who were identified as being of Sabine origin.{{Fact|date=February 2009}}

In the 1943 play ''[[The Skin Of Our Teeth]]'' by [[Thornton Wilder]], the Maid of the Antrobus family, Sabina, introduces the play and later alludes to being abducted from the [[Sabine Hills]] by the head of the family, George.

In the 1954 [[MGM]] movie musical ''[[Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (film)|Seven Brides for Seven Brothers]]'', the main character, a backwoodsman named Adam, encourages his six younger brothers to kidnap the women they love, citing the story of the Sabine women. All seven brothers sing a song called "Sobbin' Women" (their mispronunciation of "Sabine") as they prepare to abduct their future wives.

The [[Nintendo Gamecube]] game [[Baten Kaitos]] includes a character named Savyna, meaning "Of the Sabines".

== Safini ==

Sabine: Sabini < Safini

also,
 
[[Sabellians]]: Sabelli < Safnolo

[[Samnium]] < Safiniom  [[User:Böri|Böri]] ([[User talk:Böri|talk]]) 10:52, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

== Sabine gentes ==

[[Claudia (gens)]], [[Aemilia (gens)]], [[Veturia (gens)]], [[Sertoria (gens)]], [[Curtius (gens)]], [[Titia (gens)]] ?,
[[Valerius]], [[Pompilia (gens)]], [[Pomponia (gens)]], [[Calpurnia (gens)]], [[Maria (gens)]] ?, [[Lollia (gens)]] ?, [[Fabia (gens)]] ?  [[User:Böri|Böri]] ([[User talk:Böri|talk]]) 12:15, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

==What, bori?==
Where did you get these, Bori? Are they supposed to go in?[[User:Botteville|Dave]] ([[User talk:Botteville|talk]]) 16:36, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

==Language nonsense==
"Their language belonged to the [[Osco-Umbrian languages|Osco-Umbrian]] subgroup (formerly Sabellic<ref>[[Strabo]] V, 250.</ref>) of [[Italic languages]] and contains some words shared with [[Oscan language|Oscan]] and [[Umbrian language|Umbrian]] as well as with [[Latin language|Latin]]."

Where did you get this nonsense? Not to mention the imaginary reference to Strabo. Think a moment. Is Strabo a modern linguist? Does he classify Italic languages? We don't need this approach, buddy, we are looking for valid, authoritative ideas contributed by the scholars. Blog somewhere else. Thanks.[[User:Botteville|Dave]] ([[User talk:Botteville|talk]]) 12:34, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Sabine gods ==

There is a discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome#Describing gods as Sabine]] which relates to recent edits here and in other articles. [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 18:06, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

== Proposal to split off Sabine language ==
{{Discussion top|result=The result of this discussion was to '''Not split'''. <span style="font-family: Century Gothic;">[[User:Cloudz679|C]][[:User talk:Cloudz679|<span style="color: #6A5ACD; text-decoration: inherit; -moz-text-decoration-color: #6A5ACD; text-decoration-color: #6A5ACD;">679</span>]]</span> 17:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)}}

An editor proposed splitting off this section, but neglected to say why or start a discussion.  Looking over the section, it consists of a single paragraph, and begins by stating that very little is known of it, apart from some names and about a hundred words.  I cannot see the point in splitting it off unless there is a great deal more to say about it.  If someone is able to expand this section substantially, then splitting it off into its own article and leaving a summary here might make sense.  Until that happens, I think it's fine where it is.  [[User:P Aculeius|P Aculeius]] ([[User talk:P Aculeius|talk]]) 00:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

:I wonder if the large size of the language infobox gave the wrong impression. The statue might go elsewhere in the article rather than the language infobox; the inscription isn't Sabine. The second map, "Map showing the location of the Sabines" might go elsewhere too. Is the IPA notice relevant? I see no IPA renderings of Sabine pronunciations. [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 01:05, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

::That could be.  The statue would indeed be better off elsewhere, and the language infobox would still be too big IMO.  I also doubt the first map in the language infobox, along with the "Linguist List" categorization.  For that matter I doubt the wisdom of citing either of the two online sources, since I don't know what level of authority these groups have or even claim to have with respect to their classifications.  They could just be working hypotheses.  But years ago when I was researching the peoples of Italy, my OCD 2nd said that the Sabines belonged to the Oscan branch, not the Umbrian branch, and that is certainly more in line with the tradition that the Samnites were descended from them.

::The language map also makes some other questionable calls, IMO, including placing Etruscan into a "Tyrsenic" language family (I haven't heard of that, though perhaps it's found in scholarly literature), showing the Rutuli as unknown (my understanding is that they were a branch of the Latins) and the Hernici as Oscans rather than Latinic (again, going back to when I was researching in the OCD2, but given that the Hernici were frequently allied with Rome and the Latin League, rather than say, the Sabines or Samnites, there is a certain logic to it).  At the very least I would like a map cited to a better source if there is to be a language map.

::The only IPA symbols are in the lead, telling people how to pronounce "Sabines".  I suppose it's worth mentioning that it's pronounced two different ways, and frankly I prefer respelling to IPA, which I find largely indecipherable... but policy says that IPA has to be there before any other indicator of pronunciation.  I don't know why we need the ''Italian'' name, particularly as it's the same as in Latin.  The statement that they are "all exonyms" seems both misplaced—and wrong, since there is nothing in the etymology section to support this, and as I read it, "Sabini" is derived from the name they called themselves.

::I would also suggest combining the "historical geography" section with the "history" section, as they really cover the same topic.  [[User:P Aculeius|P Aculeius]] ([[User talk:P Aculeius|talk]]) 03:11, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
:::The language section does need far more references; at present it has only one nineteenth century one and historical linguistics has developed so much since then. Assertions about the Linguist list and Glottolog don't satisfty [[WP:V]]. I'm glad you have some familiarity with the subject; now that I look at [[:File:Linguistic Landscape of Central Italy.png]], I see {{tq|Data taken from various works: The Latin Dialect of the Ager Faliscus. Tongues of Italy, Prehistory and History. Gli Antichi Italici and others. When no inscriptions were found in a certain ancient city, its language is suposed to be that of their local indigenous people}}, which does suggest a [[WP:SYNTH]] problem.
:::I hadn't looked at the other sections much, except to note that the religion section takes us back to the issues discussed at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome/Archive 41#Describing gods as Sabine]]. [[User:NebY|NebY]] ([[User talk:NebY|talk]]) 20:37, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
{{Discussion bottom}}