View source for Talk:Recreational use of dextromethorphan

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{{tmbox|image=none|style=text-align:center;|text=<span style="color:red;">'''ATTENTION:</span> Neither this article, nor this talk page, are the place to post information about personal experiences with dextromethorphan.'''<br /> All information added to the article must be factual and '''[[WP:V|verifiable]]''', and ''must'' appear in '''[[WP:RS|reliable published sources]]'''. Remember to '''[[WP:CITE|cite sources]]''' for all newly-added facts. Similarly, this talk page is '''only''' for discussion regarding improvement of the article. Comments that amount to casual discussion of the topic, or that deviate from the goal of improving the article, may be removed.}}

==is this right?==
for fourth plateau it says 15 mg or more per kilo, I weigh 80 kilos. I would never reccomend someone take 1200 mg. not sure if this should be here  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.82.107.251|72.82.107.251]] ([[User talk:72.82.107.251|talk]]) 21:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:The whole plateau thing is just arbitrary nonsense that William White came up with based on his own experiences. There's nothing scientific, or concrete about them. I mean, why should the effects change apparently so drastically at exactly 15m/kg. That's a conveniently round number. And what methodology did he use to determine this? He never says in the DXM FAQ. He simply says it with noncotations or mention or HOW he arrived at the various figures for each pleateau. Which are also conveniently round numbers. [[User:VoidHalo|VoidHalo]] ([[User talk:VoidHalo|talk]]) 09:27, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

While im tempted to re-note that this isn't the place for general discussion on DXM (which is true), I'd encourage you (and anyone else who needed dose information) to check the external links, as well as google, before taking DXM, if ever (I'm also tempted to suggest that you not take DXM at all). With that said, the external links will lead you to multiple forums which will be a much better place to ask questions, and probably get you a faster response. [[User:Nigtv|Nigtv]] ([[User talk:Nigtv|talk]]) 03:25, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

:Holy crap! NigTv! It's Nothing\. Haven't seen you in like 5 years or more. Hit me up with a DM some time. I'd love to catch up. You were always one of my favourites, mr negativity, heh. [[User:VoidHalo|VoidHalo]] ([[User talk:VoidHalo|talk]]) 09:35, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

they werent asking a personal question they were asking whether its responsible for wikipedia to be saying that if you really want to trip  balls take a huge dose of dxm  . this isnt erowid and i have to agree with him. that section should be removed or at least edited, it endorses drug use (saying that people have had conversations with gods when taking enormous doses of dxm). plus it isnt scholarly at all, its from erowid (unless erowid cited something scholarly which is what we should be citing). we dont really need to know what people actually experience (hallucinations and delusions covers it pretty much), to a person who knows nothing of drugs that induce psychosis the idea of talking to gods might be very appealing and they might be in for a horrible surprise should they decide to take 1200 mg. so what im saying in short is remove the descriptions of what people have seen when on dxm unless it can be shown using scholarly info that these particular hallucinations happen frequently to people. im not sure we even really need this article as most of it could easily fit into the other article. its not like theres a shortage of space or anything.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.206.78.252|69.206.78.252]] ([[User talk:69.206.78.252|talk]]) 06:27</span>

== DXM no longer OTC in Denmark ==
I would like to inform you that DXM('Dexofan' in Denmark) is no longer over-the-counter but has recently been changed(17. april 2008) to prescription category A. Category A is the least restrictive, meaning you can get it filled multiple times until the prescription expires. 

If you want a reference for this information, go to www.medicin.dk and look up 'Dexofan'.
— -
The reason for this change was a moral panic induced by Danish newspapers reading that a "deadly excstacy-like drug" is freely availiable from the pharmacy and danish teenagers are learning how to abuse it from the Internet. Then Danish TV then took up the subject in a 5 minute news report and as politics in Denmark is often made on a case-by-case basis, politicians immidiately demanded that it be removed from the shelves.

What a sickening world we live in, ruled by TV. [[Special:Contributions/87.59.77.244|87.59.77.244]] ([[User talk:87.59.77.244|talk]]) 02:30, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

== Requested move ==
"Non-medical" is an inaccurate term to use as a title for this article. First of all, it suggests that the chemical is being used in such a way that does not include human (or animal) consumption of the chemical. While it does not explicitly state this—as something can certainly be used "non-medically" even though it is consumed—it does indirectly suggest that notion. Many would interpret "medical" as relating to consumption, and therefore would likely relate "non-medical" to not being consumed. Additionally, while many would not consider recreational use as "medical," many do consider it exactly that. Regardless of this, when the negative is used it suggests a different meaning from the meaning intended—which is recreational usage. "Recreational" is a far more appropriate word to use here, as not only does it ensure an understanding of the suggested usage of the chemical, but it more accurately and specifically relates to the content of the article. I suggest that the article be renamed "Recreational use of dextromethorphan." '''<font style="color:#800000;">[[User:Anonabyss|<big><sub>Anonabyss</sub></big>]]</font>'''<sup><font style="background:#800000;">[[User_talk: Anonabyss|<font style="color:#FFFFFF">&nbsp;[&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;]</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Anonabyss|<font style="color:#FFFFFF">[&nbsp;Contribs&nbsp;]&nbsp;</font>]]</sup></font> 05:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
:I think I agree. Now that I think about it, "non-medical use" conjures images of people using it for engine coolant or abstract art. Let's wait a couple days for others to chime in. <s>When appropriate</s> we can we request a move at [[WP:Requested moves]], so that the page histories will be preserved and moved as well. <small style="font:bold 10px Arial;display:inline;border:#009 1px dashed;padding:1px 6px 2px 7px;white-space:nowrap">[[User:Equazcion|<font color="#000">Equazcion</font>]] [[User talk:equazcion|•''✗'']]/[[Special:Contributions/Equazcion|''C'' •]] ''07:53, 4 Feb 2009 (UTC)''</small>
:I posted the move request here: [[Wikipedia:Requested moves#Other proposals]]. They'll wait a bit for people to object before making the move. <small style="font:bold 10px Arial;display:inline;border:#009 1px dashed;padding:1px 6px 2px 7px;white-space:nowrap">[[User:Equazcion|<font color="#000">Equazcion</font>]] [[User talk:equazcion|•''✗'']]/[[Special:Contributions/Equazcion|''C'' •]] ''08:07, 4 Feb 2009 (UTC)''</small>
:I moved the request to the Uncontroversial section, since no objections have been raised. <small style="font:bold 10px Arial;display:inline;border:#009 1px dashed;padding:1px 6px 2px 7px;white-space:nowrap">[[User:Equazcion|<font color="#000">Equazcion</font>]] [[User talk:equazcion|•''✗'']]/[[Special:Contributions/Equazcion|''C'' •]] ''13:33, 7 Feb 2009 (UTC)''</small>
::Recreational use? This makes it sound as if the Wikipedia community condones intentional misuse of a drug. No, the term should be "abuse." According to the definition of the word, that is the proper title for this "article," if it must even exist at all.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Dks2855|Dks2855]] ([[User talk:Dks2855|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dks2855|contribs]]) 12:39, 3 May 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::We've had this discussion before and it was decided on either non-medical or recreational. Recreational accurately describes the use. ''[[User:C6541|C6541]]'' <small>''([[User talk:C6541|T]]↔[[Special:Contributions/C6541|C]])''</small> 17:27, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
"off label use" is the term for using drugs in a way otherwise intended by manufacturers.[[Special:Contributions/125.239.247.77|125.239.247.77]] ([[User talk:125.239.247.77|talk]]) 11:21, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
== Globalize ==

I've added {{T|Globalize}} to this article, as it contains excessive information specific to the United States as opposed to locales around the world.  Anyone with information, specifically regarding legality and sale of DXM, in other areas of the world should please post such information. <small><span style="border:2px solid #B40000;"><span style="background:#B40000;">[[User:Mnmazur|<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">mnmazur</span>]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mnmazur|<span style="font-family:corbel; color:#B40000">voicemail</span>]]&nbsp;</span></small>
:I've moved the template to the Legality section. I think the rest of the article is mostly country/culture neutral. [[Special:Contributions/74.178.245.217|74.178.245.217]] ([[User talk:74.178.245.217|talk]]) 15:55, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

== Robotripping ==

This is the slang term for this activity, and probably <br />
a) A pointer from robotripping to this article should be made<br />
b) mention of the term in this article should be made at some point.<br />
--[[User:OBloodyHell|OBloodyHell]] ([[User talk:OBloodyHell|talk]]) 07:52, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
:[[Robotripping]] already points to this article. I added the word to the intro section. It should be noted that the word was once part of this article a long time ago, along with many other slang forms, and the ever-growing list of slang terms people could just as easily be making up grew out of control, so all slang forms were removed. I'm choosing to re-add  "robotripping" because, frankly, I saw [[Dr. House]] refer to it that way; If a prominent network TV show uses that term then that's reasonable verification for me that the term is in common use. [[User:Equazcion|<span style="color:#006;font-family:Verdana">Equa'''zc'''ion</span>]] <span style="font:normal .9em Verdana">[[User talk:Equazcion|<span style="color:#006">(talk)</span>]] 07:22, 5 Dec 2009 (UTC)</span>

== William White ==

William White has no credentials. He should not be listed as anything but a private citizen experimenting in his own home, and there's absolutely no sense in making his wiki page redirect to this one. It does nothing to establish the credentials of this information, or the information from him referenced on other pages, and I think it's highly irresponsible to keep things this way.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/209.216.174.100|209.216.174.100]] ([[User talk:209.216.174.100|talk]]) 02:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The redirect is a result of there having been a separate article on him once. It got replaced with a redirect since this topic is all he's notable for. I understand that he's actually a PHD candidate in neurology, however I'd have to do some digging to try and find verification of that again. If you really feel the redirect is unwarranted you can nominate it for deletion via [[WP:RFD]], but I personally don't see the point. The only people who would use that redirect are people who came to Wikipedia looking for that name, so it doesn't seem harmful to point them towards the information they were likely searching for. [[User:Equazcion|<span style="color:#006;font-family:Verdana">Equa'''zc'''ion</span>]] <span style="font:normal .9em Verdana">[[User talk:Equazcion|<span style="color:#006">(talk)</span>]] 07:05, 5 Dec 2009 (UTC)</span>

I'd agree with Equazcion on the redirect from William E. White. However, seeing as the actual article on William E. White was deleted, I'm going to remove his name from the [[William White|Disambiguation page for "William White"]], as it simply redirects here.

why is his info here at all if he has no credentials? thats the real issue. not the redirect.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.206.78.252|69.206.78.252]] ([[User talk:69.206.78.252|talk]]) 06:33, 17 April 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Although I'd recommend removal of this entire topic, if it must exist, then at the very least remove the William E. White section. It acts as a guide to drug abuse and creates the sense that drug abuse is somehow acceptable.
:I wasn't aware that it's our priority at Wikipedia to condone or condemn the acceptability of drug (ab)USE.

No one going to bother the fact that William White retracted his statements about Olney's Lesions back in 2004?: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm_health3.shtml --[[Special:Contributions/98.18.1.67|98.18.1.67]] ([[User talk:98.18.1.67|talk]]) 02:25, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

== molar masses of *dextromethorphan* versus of 'dextromethorhan hydrobromide'(Dxm HBr) vs. 'dextromethorhan polisitre' ==

As is found in cough syrup or liquid-gels for same purpose, Dxm is found in the form either of "Dextromethorphan HBr" or of "Dextromethorphan polisitrex" (the latter being less common, more for longer duration?), as stated to be the active ingredient.
E.g., stated on back of a container 20_Liquidgels container of Walgreens 'Wal-Tussing Cough Softgels, 8-Hour Cough Relief', is following:


'''''Active ingredient (in each liquidgel)               '''''____________'''''Purpose'''''

Dextromethorphan HBr, USP 15 mg..........Cough Suppressant

'''''Use''''' temporarily relieves cough due to minor throat and bronchial

irritations as may occur with a cold.

{ et so forth }

Now, does this mean that per each softgel capsule there are fifteen milligrams by mass of ''dextromethorhan hydrobrmide''(Dextromethorhan HBr for short), as opposed to *pure ''dextromethorphan''*(or 'Dextromethorhan')? Because if so, then the actual amount of mass of dextromethorphan is obviously going to be less than what its parent molecules (of Dextromethorhan HBr constitute).., right?

I haven't been in chemistry since Sophomore year of high-school, so I'm quite rusty on determining the actual masses.. but if I'm not mistaken, don't you simply determine the atomic masses, and subtract where appropriate? 
Because if my logic is correct, then one molecule of dextromethorphan has an atomic mass of ~96.911447amu (as compared with a meager 15.9994 of dextromethorphan or 80.912047 of Hydrogen+Bromine). or Do I need tio find molar mass, molecular weight, gram atomic mass, density, what ..

Just like any other FDA-regulated "active ingredient" posting on pharmaceuticals; e.g. Crest Toothpaste. Active ingredient usually Sodium fluoride 0.24% (or sometime Stannous fluoriede slightly less), although "...w/v fluoride ion 0.16%".
0.24% (0.16% w/v fluoride ion)


This is relevant because I must know: the Harvord guys who posted the "five levels" from DXM, they meant straight DxM?.. because for a level 4, that would make the difference between like four bottles of cough-syrup versus like 15 (although I'll tell you from personal experience that two bottles will more than suffice..).

[[User:Victamon, Ja|Victamon, Ja]] ([[User talk:Victamon, Ja|talk]])Victamon, Ja  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 19:33, 11 September 2010 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Pain Perception ==

An effect which is commonly overlooked in the recreational usage of Dextromethorphan is the '''elimination of pain'''. Often, individuals who consume amounts in the High-Second plateau or greater experience a great reduction of pain response or a total lack of pain reception. It often manifests in a fashion unlike other pain killers '''(i.e. no pain is felt when the person under the influence injures themselves, but normal tactile sensations are still experienced. this makes them unlike opiates, which allow for pain to be felt, but simply ignored.)''' This side effect is especially dangerous if a "robo tripper" attempts to engage in physical activities which may result in injury, as they can no longer feel if they have damaged any part of their body; in addition to that, they can also no longer tell if they are surpassing their limits in muscle flexibility, strength, and all around skill. '''Trippers will often awake the next morning with numerous bruises and cuts all over their body resulting from falls and other absent minded accidents.'''  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jacob McKinley|Jacob McKinley]] ([[User talk:Jacob McKinley|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jacob McKinley|contribs]]) 18:52, 7 November 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

"'''Trippers will often awake the next morning with numerous bruises and cuts all over their body resulting from falls and other absent minded accidents.'''" ''Citation needed''. This information, though it may have a grain of truth to it, is unreliable. The use of the word "often" to describe this occurrence is not appropriate within the context of an encyclopedia unless it can be verified with something like a statistic. The same goes for the sentence "It often manifests in a fashion unlike other pain killers ...".
I recall, however, reading about something similar to what you're describing in the DXM FAQ, although the dosage regimen when this effect manifests is within the third plateau range, not the second:
"Touch and taste are subject to considerable anesthesia, and pain especially may be completely dissociated (it's still there, it just doesn't seem to apply)."<ref>{{cite web|last=White|first=William|title=5.7.1 Sensory Effects|url=http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_experience.shtml#toc.5.7.1|work=The DXM FAQ|publisher=Erowid|accessdate=6 May 2011}}</ref>
[[Special:Contributions/142.68.150.128|142.68.150.128]] ([[User talk:142.68.150.128|talk]]) 23:54, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Title not correct? ==

Talk-type comment by [[Special:Contributions/Markoni17|Markoni17]] ([[User talk:Markoni17|talk]]), relocated from the article page:
:the title of this article defines DXM as a recreational drug DXM is cough medicine. The title should be "High Dose Abuse of Dextromethorphan"
--[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 19:50, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
:I'm no specialist in drug-related articles at Wikipedia, but I have the impression that the term "recreational drug use" (rather than a judgmental word like "abuse") has been generally adopted for this type of topic. See [[Recreational drug use]], for example. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 20:09, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
::Correct, abuse tends to be seen as carrying a negative connotation. For the most part, Wikipedia articles have adopted non-medicinal or recreational use to describe when individuals use a substance for recreation. Off-label tends to be used for when a substance is used medicinally for a condition that the drug isn't normally used for (e.g. off-label use of pregablin for mood disorders). '''[[User:C6541|<span style="font-family:cambria; font-size:10pt; color:#151B8D">C6541</span>]]''' <small>''([[User talk:C6541|<span style="color:#FF8C00">Talk</span>]] ↔ [[Special:Contributions/C6541|Contribs]])</small>'' 22:11, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

==Circulatory Shock==
I was ambulated to the hospital after taking DXM for the fourth plateau. It resulted in an [[Acute Emergency Dehydration Event]] and [[circulatory shock]]. Basically I was almost very rapidly "thirsted" to death. I want to warn recreational users about this potentiality. How do we go about doing this? --4 March 2013
:In general, Wikipedia frowns upon adding things to articles based on anecdotal reports or original research. '''[[User:C6541|<span style="font-family:cambria; font-size:10pt; color:#151B8D">C6541</span>]]''' <small>''([[User talk:C6541|<span style="color:#FF8C00">Talk</span>]] ↔ [[Special:Contributions/C6541|Contribs]])</small>'' 22:12, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
:Go submit a trip report to Erowid describing your story. Wikipedia is not the place for something like this. [[User:Vorpal22|Vorpal22]] ([[User talk:Vorpal22|talk]]) 01:51, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

== Wrong dose in the plateau section ==

The doses in that section are wrong 1.2 mg is just plain wrong. Maybe 1.2g? but that is a lot.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/37.120.88.29|37.120.88.29]] ([[User talk:37.120.88.29#top|talk]]) 23:13, 16 June 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

The numerical values given here are inconsistent:
The first plateau (1.5 to 2.5 mg)is described as having euphoria, auditory changes, and change in perception of gravity. The second plateau (2.5 to 7.5 mg)causes intense euphoria, vivid imagination, and closed-eye hallucinations may occur. The third and fourth plateaus (600 mg, or 7.5 mg)and over) cause profound alterations in consciousness, ...  
600 mg does not equal 7.5 mg.Either it's a confusion about the units, or one is referring to plasma level or some similar parameter.  '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 17:40, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

== What do you mean by "responsible"? ==

"It is important to note that responsible DXM use has not been shown to cause the above issues."

I just want clarification. Do you mean non-recreational/medical use, or responsible recreational use? Thanks a lot! [[User:DOA FANSI|DOA FANSI]] ([[User talk:DOA FANSI|talk]]) 18:08, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

==This makes no sense==
"In 1981, a paper by Gosselin estimated that the lethal dose is between 50 and 500 mg/kg. Doses as high as 15–20 mg/kg are taken by some recreational users. A single case study suggests that the antidote to dextromethorphan overdose is naloxone, administered intravenously.[15]"

Per pound of body weight? It doesn't specify. And mg/kg are not the same. What does this mean? Recreationally, people take between 100 to 5,000mg's with 1000 to 1,500mg being considered the highest "safe" dose for someone without a tolerance (I take around 7-8k mg a day, in 3 doses of robocough). ... So what is this? [[Special:Contributions/24.176.9.114|24.176.9.114]] ([[User talk:24.176.9.114|talk]]) 13:21, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

:Yo(you're probably over this by now it's been 4yrs but), when the article referred to mg/kg, it wasn't using them interchangeably but rather as __milligram PER kilogram. So when it refers to doses as high as 15-20mg/kg, that's just like 20mg per kg of body weight-eg; 20x60=1200mg medium-high dose for a person of that weight. Hope this helped! [[Special:Contributions/2600:1700:31BF:D200:B51D:E9C4:8EC0:1760|2600:1700:31BF:D200:B51D:E9C4:8EC0:1760]] ([[User talk:2600:1700:31BF:D200:B51D:E9C4:8EC0:1760|talk]]) 08:46, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

== counterflipping ==

Under the section about DXM being combined with other substances, I think diphenhydramime/DPH/benadryl should be added. benadryl acts as a deliriant in recreational doses, similar to datura. People often combine DXM and DPH (called counterflipping) because they cancel out each others negative effects and create new, unpredictable ones. When combined, the hallucinations will be seemless into reality just like they are on DPH, but they’ll have “dxm type vibes” which means rather than abominations and gruesome horrifying things, you mostly see very surreal, strange things. I attempted this once and overdosed, I have a visual recreation too if that would contribute to the page at all. [[User:Rozzums|Rozzums]] ([[User talk:Rozzums|talk]]) 12:54, 5 February 2023 (UTC)