View source for Talk:Quarry Hill Creative Center

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{{Connected contributor
|User1=Ladybelle Fiske |U1-EH=yes |U1-declared=yes |U1-otherlinks=COI declared on user page
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==Untitled==
Edits made keep being removed and the article made shorter. I do not understand why. Adding in references. Urge some of the information be returned to the page by someone else.
-- Mary Grace Chazan, New Jersey).  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:84:8701:100:2093:90ED:E5A8:D001|2601:84:8701:100:2093:90ED:E5A8:D001]] ([[User talk:2601:84:8701:100:2093:90ED:E5A8:D001#top|talk]]) 02:12, 24 November 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


I am working on this page. Can't sign in at the moment as Wikipedia sent me a temporary password, then the site would not accept it and it  says I have to wait five minutes to try again. It is too much trouble to do a lot of the things demanded here.
I am trying to make this page about QHCC as true and, to the extent possible, as neutral as I can. I was in the middle of editing and fixing it and someone removed most of the true and interesting information about the place, some with references.I would like to ask you to please stop doing that till you see what I produce, then you could edit my efforts. I ask you to just leave it alone till I'm finished in a few days or a week.
November 20, 2016 -- Isabella Fiske McFarlin

PS some of the valuable information about QHCC  presently cannot be sourced with an external reference of the kind you insist on  at Wikipedia. Many letters and papers in the Fiske Family archives and the archives of Goddard College, et al, can provide proof of some of the statements I have made. Perhaps volunteer Wikipedians might like to make a division to come to homes and verify information for Wikipedia. I'd be glad to meet such people.
However, many statements I have made on Wikipedia that have sources end up getting removed too, at times when they are wholly neutral. I ask you to give it a try and allow me to see what I can do. Then if you don't like it mess with it.
I know Wikipedia ends up selling this stuff as a little pamphlet. Might as well allow it to be interesting because the present version is dull and does not contain useful information about QHCC, my brother, and myself, as well as other matters.
Thanks.Isabella (Ladybelle).
I will see if I can log on now to prove who I am.
Can't log in. Problems with password.
Isabella McFarlin[[Special:Contributions/71.161.222.139|71.161.222.139]] ([[User talk:71.161.222.139|talk]]) 03:21, 21 November 2016 (UTC)



I Have tried to make this more "neutral." Will try to provide more references where they exist. 
Isabella Fiske McFarlin  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.109.136.83|70.109.136.83]] ([[User talk:70.109.136.83#top|talk]]) 03:09, 17 November 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I would be happy to help someone who mentions this in 2010 that they would like to make a page for Barbara Hall Fiske Calhoun. I am sorry I don't know where to post this. Let me know! She's 93 and I'd love to have her see a page for herself in Wikipedia while she's alive.  She deserves one, too. [[User:Ladybelle of QH|Ladybelle of QH]] ([[User talk:Ladybelle of QH|talk]]) 18:37, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

==Cleanup Attempt==
I found this article linked from another one that I edit regularly. 
I have changed it somewhat to wikify the references and also bring the formatting in line with Wikipedia style. I think the section on notable residents or visitors needs to be clarified and I am moving it here so that it can be worked on. In short: if peopel were residents, that's notable in an encyclopedia article abotu Quarry Hill. If they were merrely visitors that is less encyclopedic and not as notable. Here is the list that I have copied and pasted from the article. At the very least it needs to be wikified and my suggestion would be to remove it altogether or only include notable past residents that can be in some way verified. 



Some well known persons who have visited or lived at Quarry Hill: Alan Stirt, widely-collected wood artisan, Stephen Huneck, folk artist and owner of the Dog Chapel in St. Johnsbury, Vermont; Art Spiegelman and Francoise Mouly; Ken Jacobs, underground filmmaker and his wife, artist Flo Jacobs; Nisi Jacobs, filmmaker; Eliot Fintushel, mime and science-fiction writer; Elizabeth Marshall Begley,  Hallmark heiress and Shaman, Aza Jacobs, filmmaker; Adam Sherman, filmmaker; Alice Dodd, supermodel; Sybil Buck, supermodel; Taylor Mead, avant-garde actor; Phish, Vermont-based rock band; Dillard K. Henderson, poet laureate of Quarry Hill, and Arthur Volbert, photographer, philosopher and sports theorist.

Please sign your contributions with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>so that we can know who is participating in the converation and what dates they contributed. Thank you [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]] ([[User talk:Jessamyn|talk]]) 15:01, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


Hello,
Please do NOT Remove this article. There are MANY sources and articles about Quarry Hill and it is a legitimate subject. I am working on the sources and the Wikipedia connections, which is what I was asking for advice on. There are many people who are interested in communities in Vermont and elsewhere, even if you are not. 
Al Stirt and I were at Harpur College together.Steven Huneck lived at Quarry Hill for many years in the Sixties and Seventies.  Some of the above persons have asked to be included in this article. [''That should not influence this article in any way. [[User:Fp cassini|Fp cassini]] ([[User talk:Fp cassini|talk]]) 16:14, 21 December 2015 (UTC)'']
Many of those listed in the article were residents. Some of them were visitors. Sybil and Alice owned houses at Quarry Hill. Elizabeth Marshall Begley [''who? no biographical info on her from Google search.[[User:Fp cassini|Fp cassini]] ([[User talk:Fp cassini|talk]]) 16:14, 21 December 2015 (UTC)''] lived at or near QH from the early 70s to 1999, and her son, Adam Sherman, was born there.
If you insist on taking these out, I can't prevent it, but nothing here is untrue!
 [[User:209.198.96.180|209.198.96.180]] 18:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)ladybellefiske (Isabella)

March 18, 2006 
I have now put in some (not exhaustive: more has been written on Quarry Hill) references to demonstrate that this article ought to meet the standard of "notability." I speak to the person who originally criticized my having had the temerity to write an article about Quarry Hill because it is about my family. I do want to say that my father saw nothing wrong with "Blowing one's own horn," in the tradition of George Bernard Shaw, with whom he corresponded. But I believe that this article is as worthwhile as many others included in Wikipedia, which I admire. 
 April 10, 2006 will be the 60th anniversary of the day Irving and Barbara Fiske bought this land. Much has happened here, and many persons have taken note of the existence of this place, which may be the first such living situation in the country to have created a covenant against violence towards children.  I do not know if we are the first, but I believe that we may be. It is not just a "vanity" article. For many years we did not wish to have media attention because we wanted our privacy. We don't consider QHCC to be a "commune," though it has, from time to time, been sensationalized as such.
 When I found Wikipedia, I thought that some might find the story of QHCC to be of interest, at least as much so as many other topics covered herein. I appreciate the efforts of Jessamyn to "wikify" the article, as I don't really have the time to do so.
Thanks,
[[User:216.114.167.43|216.114.167.43]] 21:33, 18 March 2006 (UTC)ladybellefiske (Isabella Fiske McFarlin)

 I have said nothing that is not true, and Quarry Hill is a valid topic. My father's obituary appeared in The New York Times, The Boston Globe, The International Herald Tribune and his death was mentioned on Vermont Public Radio.
So I am asking other editors please, do not just arbitrarily remove this article-- it would be a very biased and unfair action.

Thank you. [[User:209.198.96.180|209.198.96.180]] 18:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)ladybellefiske (Isabella Fiske McFarlin)

: You can indent your responses to people on this page by typing a colon at the beginning of your reply. I don't mind the article. In fact I like the article and I don't believe anyone is trying to remove it. I live in Bethel which is right up the road from QHCC. However the article doesn't meet Wikipedia standards and so I am trying to help clean it up so that it can stay on Wikipedia without attracting negative attention. To this end I made some formatting changes and removed the big list of names (visitors and residents) which doesn't appear to be sourced or cited anywhere. I moved it here which is sort of like a workshop area so that it can be worked on and replaced if deemed to be a good idea.There are two Wikipedia informational areas guiding my efforts. One is the [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style|Wikipedia Manual of Style]] which describes how articles should be written. The second is the [[Wikipedia:Citing_sources|citation guide]] which describes the need to include sources for information. I have no knowledge of the Art Spiegelman article you are referring to, and I am not disputing the worthiness of this article, I just want to help make the QHCC article into a good Wikipedia article. [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]] ([[User talk:Jessamyn|talk]]) 20:47, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

:Dear Jessamyn,
:Thank you. I appreciate your efforts. I was disturbed by the posting below, which I found rude. (I guess it wasn't you who posted it.)
 I apologize. 
[[User:216.114.166.162|216.114.166.162]] 19:41, 18 March 2006 (UTC) ladybellefiske
:( My family has been in Rochester, Vermont, trying to live an unusual and creative life for sixty years. I thought the below remarks were rude, uncalled for and unkind-- and untrue) [[User:216.114.166.162|216.114.166.162]] 19:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC) ladybellefiske

ladybellefiske, it would do you a great deal of good to read this article very carefully:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vanity_guidelines

The vast majority of the information on here is nothing but self-aggrandizing. 
Please edit it down, make it less biased, and get rid of the name dropping. It goes against all of the notability rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability).

Note - it's not the subject matter itself here that breaks these rules (though creating an article like this about yourself and your family is trashy and distasteful), (I DISAGREE, as we are unique!) but more the irrelevant information ("since children do not have the same legal rights as adults against assault and battery") and clearly biased statements ("Irving became widely known for his sense of humor, interest in philosophy and religion, and his ability as a speaker and communicator.") 

Dear Editor, or whoever you are,
I cannot agree with you. There is NOTHING trashy about my writing an article about the oldest and largest alternative lifestyle community in Vermont!! Would you say this if someone not born into my family had written this? I find your remarks very hurtful and unkind!!

The entire life of QH has been about defending children's rights. How is it "Irrelevant" to write about the fact that children are the victims of adults and have no legal rights? One of the interesting things about QH-- and I am sure there are articles about far less well known places in Wikipedia--is that children are protected here. Is that of no interest to you? I feel sorry for your shortsighted way of looking at the world. 

 People should be able to write articles about places and events that are of real interest to many. What, I ask you, is trashy about writing an article about something that is the truth? I refer you to "Freedom and Unity," by Michael Sherman et al, (Montpelier, VT, 2003)as well as "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight" by Thom Hartmann, and many other books, on the subject of Vermont communities.  I do NOT UNDERSTAND. If anyone can write an article for Wikipedia, and if one's topic has real historic and general interest, why NOT write it oneself?

YOu are getting just too stuffy there, folks.

It is true that Irving WAS widely known for all those things. I have newspaper articles to prove a great deal of this! His obituary was in the New York Times, etc... BUt if you think the language is overblown, why not tone it down? ANYONE can Edit an article, right?

Isabella (Ladybelle) Fiske McFarlin. 
PS All these names are people who really did come to Quarry Hill!!!!!!!!!

Man, if you think this is only vanity, you should have been here as I tried to beat off reporters over the years.  I think you are misunderstanding Quarry Hill. It is a legitimate place, in existence this year for sixty years, and there is no reason why Wikipedia readers should not know about it. If you want more proof, I can reference many articles about QH.
I wanted help with figuring out how to add sources.
I honestly believe this is a perfectly reasonable article with interest to many.
Isabella Fiske McFarlin

----



I would be glad to have help making this article conform to a "higher standard of quality" but I do not know what the specific problems are.I appreciate the linking help someone just added (July 26 2005).

I plan to work on adding sources.

How do you add this to the spot where it says Irving Fiske wrote for the American Mercury?

''American Mercury'' v. 48 (December 1939) p. 403-7 

The source for this is the Library of Congress: < http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/ >

HELP!  I don't see the text formatting box any more when I get into the edit page. What has changed??
 I want to keep improving this article and I hope others will, too. ladybellefiske



Hi there from Beijing to Ladybelle & Bill & all the others. [[Special:Contributions/124.42.12.226|124.42.12.226]] ([[User talk:124.42.12.226|talk]]) 14:50, 18 July 2008 (UTC)Bertel (former Sheriff of Quarry Hill) ... I'm still working for 2001 after all those years ....  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/124.42.12.226|124.42.12.226]] ([[User talk:124.42.12.226|talk]]) 14:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I have removed the references to Art Spiegelman and his family out of a desire to respect their wish for privacy.
Thanks.
Isabella Fiske McFarlin
(Ladybelle)

I hope all realize now that this is a genuine topic of general interest, and is not "Trashy."

Ladybelle Fiske
ladybellefiske@gmail.com

== Request edit on 25 July 2022 ==

{{edit COI|d}}
<!-- PLEASE READ: Explain the rationale behind the edit and provide reliable sources to support the proposed changes. -->

* '''What I think should be changed''': I think this article should be removed.
* '''Why it should be changed''': It is fictional but put forward as fact. Therefore, it lends legitimacy to an illegitimate undertaking that has skirted zoning and public health laws in Vermont. It contains numerous false statements. For instance, renters are not provided with safe housing or hot water. It is not an artist's colony and it is not a commune. The sole purpose of this article is to continue to safeguard Quarry Hill's owner, Lyman Hall Inc, from lawsuits and to deceive public officials as to the true nature of this so-called neighborhood. The primary writer of this article is the vice president of the corporation and has edited out any other perspectives. These are all facts. Wikipedia articles should not be used in this way.
* '''References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button)''': see Vermont Supreme Court case Fiske v. Probst and other cases both past and ongoing. 


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[[Special:Contributions/198.55.239.113|198.55.239.113]] ([[User talk:198.55.239.113|talk]]) 20:13, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

{{reftalk}}

{{Not done}}  This is not an edit request.[[User:Duke Gilmore|Duke Gilmore]] ([[User talk:Duke Gilmore|talk]]) 02:39, 27 December 2022 (UTC)