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<!-- Please keep the following archived discussion here as the issue of the article name ("Killer Whale" vs. "Orca") seems to come up every 5 years or so. -->
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* [[Talk:Orca/Should the page be at Orca or Killer Whale]] (resolution: Orca (''Dec 2003''); Killer Whale (''Jan 2009''))
* [[Talk:Orca/Is it a dolphin, a whale, both?!]] (resolution: both (''2004''))
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== Unscientific claim in "Naming" section. ==

"Orcas, '''despite being dolphins''', are commonly called 'killer whales' due to a mistranslation of the Spanish 'asesino de ballenas' (literally 'whale killer'), reflecting their historical predation on whales."

This claim is rather problematic cause "dolphins" and "whales" are popular names. They aren't meant to reflect taxonomic conditions. Especially the word "whale" has no clear definition, between baleen whales, sperm whales and beaked whales.

On top of that, the source itself (https://us.whales.org/whales-dolphins/facts-about-orcas/) is pretty problematic. It claims orcas to have been called "ballenas asesinas" (killer whales), so the "mistranslation" theory is out of thin air, then it says that "Orcinus translates to ‘of the kingdom of the dead,’ (not it doesn't, it means "the one related to orcus") and orca refers to a kind of whale (you don't say), then it goes on to say "We know that orcas are top predators, yes, but not the vicious ‘whale killers’ that the ancient mariners thought them to be." which is purely a personal comment, and possibly a factually wrong one. [[Special:Contributions/79.166.36.186|79.166.36.186]] ([[User talk:79.166.36.186|talk]]) 07:55, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
:As far as I can tell, the claims themselves are correct, but I agree that this is a very weak source to hang the section on. The etymology of both "orca" and "killer whale" would benefit from some dedicated attention, using more reliable sources. From a quick look, it's however going to be something of a hodgepodge of conflicting interpretations. [https://www.etymonline.com/word/Orca Here] is the Online Etymology Dictionary basing "orca" on French "orque", sea monster, while Etymology Online goes off on a [https://etymologyworld.com/item/orca surprising tangent concerning testicles]. This may take some work. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]] · [[Special:contributions/Elmidae|contribs]])</small> 11:56, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
::To be honest, I think the theory about the name "killer whale" originating from Spanish for "whale killer" is kind of doing acrobatics with the animal's name. And many sources, including this one, do this as an active attempt to stigmatize "killer whale" as a stereotype and exonerate the animals for being carnivores. It's like political correctness for cetaceans. [[Special:Contributions/79.166.36.186|79.166.36.186]] ([[User talk:79.166.36.186|talk]]) 14:48, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I hadn't noticed that whale denialism had crept back into this article. It's been there since [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Orca&diff=1070654276&oldid=1070424104 8 February 2022] (the article was moved from killer whale to orca on 2 February 2022). The claim is not in the article when it was last reviewed for featured article status ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Orca&oldid=353581524 in 2010]).
:::There are a lot of sites on the internet that make the claim "orcas are actually dolphins" (just Google that phrase, or look through the archives of this talk page), but is misleading (and utter nonsense if the claim is extended to say that "orcas are not whales"). In everyday English usage, whales are large cetaceans, and smaller cetaceans are referred to as porpoises or dolphins (or pilot whales). Orcas are larger than other members of the Delphinidae; there is nothing wrong with calling them whales (especially since pilot whales are also delphinids, and the internet is far more quiet about them being "not whales").
:::The everyday English usage of whale/dolphin/porpoise makes whales (if orcas are included) polyphyletic. Everyday English usage isn't subject to a cladistic preference for monophyletic groups. Toothed whales are paraphyletic if dolphins are excluded. So even if there was a reason to subject everyday English usage to cladistic preferences, "orcas are not whales" doesn't hold up cladistically. [[User:Plantdrew|Plantdrew]] ([[User talk:Plantdrew|talk]]) 17:38, 27 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I've been low-level annoyed with the forced dolphin/whale distinction for some time, but it's not something I felt like digging in for. I certainly wouldn't mind revisiting the phrasing. - Re ''asesina ballenas'', I've just spent another twenty minutes looking around the web, and there's plenty of mid/low quality sources that all repeat the claim. Many of these are slightly better than the current source (e.g. mention in a Nature news feature), so it could at least be swapped out at ~ the same level. I have however been unable to find something really reliable, like an etymological analysis :/ On the side, pretty nice one [https://centaur.reading.ac.uk/84759/1/RMS-2009-06_W._Sayers,_Naming_and_Renaming_the_Grampus.pdf here] for the origin of the term "grampus" wrt the orca; will see to adding that. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]] · [[Special:contributions/Elmidae|contribs]])</small> 12:21, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
:I’m new to editing Wikipedia so I’m not sure what the protocol would be on a locked article, but is there any way we could change this? Perhaps to something like: “Orcas are also commonly known as killer whales” and just leave it at that. After all, the official Society for Marine Mammalogy lists them under that name: https://marinemammalscience.org/science-and-publications/list-marine-mammal-species-subspecies/. The word “despite” tacitly perpetuates the oft-repeated but untrue claim that orcas aren’t actually whales, and as others have mentioned, it is incredibly difficult to find a reliable source for the claim that “killer whale” is a mistranslation. I think Wikipedia could go a long way in finally fixing the  misconception amongst the public that orcas are “dolphins, not whales”. [[User:Orcinusozymandias|Orcinusozymandias]] ([[User talk:Orcinusozymandias|talk]]) 13:51, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

== Well? ==

[[:File:Orca sexual dimorphism.png]]

Description issues,   - <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">[[User:FlightTime|<span style="color:#800000">'''FlightTime'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:FlightTime|<span style="color:#1C0978">'''open channel'''</span>]])</small></span> 22:37, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hey Flighttime.
:Sorry for engaging in an edit war with you(I have never heard of this). 😓
:As your comment about the "top and bottom," I believe using these terms can help contribute to consistency and clarity. 
:However, I’m open-minded and would appreciate it if you could explain why you feel that it might not be necessary to be there. [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 23:02, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
:You state in your edit comment "Don't need to state the obvious" 
:In the description it says "Sexual dimorphism between male (top) and female killer whales. Pectoral fins, dorsal fin, and flukes are larger in adult males." 
:It says "''Pectoral fins, dorsal fin, and flukes are larger in adult males."''
:This can obviously indicate that the individual at the top is male. Should we remove "(top)"?
:''<small>Note: If this comes across as mocking, please know that I do not intend to mock you.</small>'' [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 13:48, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
:this is also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#:~:text=Male%20(left)%20and%20female%20(right) why I would add it.][[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 11:59, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2025 ==

{{Edit semi-protected|Orca|answered=yes}}
Please change the misspelling of 'seldom' in the first sentence in the second paragraph of the 'Characteristics' section. [[User:Onion baker|Onion baker]] ([[User talk:Onion baker|talk]]) 00:23, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

:changed it to rarely since seldom is not commonly used. [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 06:08, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
:{{already done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:Jlwoodwa|jlwoodwa]] ([[User talk:Jlwoodwa|talk]]) 16:27, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::Can you explain how to do this so I can do this in the future? I don't know how to do it. 😅 [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 18:27, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

== "Mistranslation of Spanish" claim ==

From what I can see in the article history, a similar claim was added many years ago, removed in 2019 as having never been reliably sourced, and re-added last November, in an unexplained edit in which no sources were provided [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Orca&diff=prev&oldid=1256253313]. It is obviously absurd. No significant language contacts have ever existed between Spanish and English-speaking whalers, and there is, as far as I am aware, no other comparable claim of any word or phrase coming via such a route. I strongly suspect that any mentions of this claim on the internet at large are from gullible people who read it on Wikipedia. [[User:Kahvey|Kahvey]] ([[User talk:Kahvey|talk]]) 21:28, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

:My bad I didn't see this.
:This is why I believe this is the most accepted explanation: while we may not know the exact truth behind it, many sources say the name “killer whale” originally came from “whale killer” and was eventually flipped. 
:KPassionate, a marine biologist on YouTube, says around the 3:30 mark that the name got translated into “killer whale”:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIwjehSYKJg
:Live Science notes that the name morphed into killer whale over time:https://www.livescience.com/27431-orcas-killer-whales.html
:SeaWorld says the name was switched to “killer whale”: https://seaworld.org/animals/all-about/killer-whale/classification
:Wild Orca agrees that the name morphed into killer whale:https://www.wildorca.org/ask-an-expert/why-are-orcas-called-killer-whales-when-they-seem-so-friendly/
:The Center for Whale Research explains that the name originated from Spanish whalers who called them “whale killers” after observing them hunt large whales. Over time, the term got flipped:
:https://www.whaleresearch.com/copy-of-about-orcas
:Here is a person on Reddit saying this statement:
:https://www.reddit.com/r/Amazing/comments/1i9ewq9/comment/m91u281
:On Quora:
:https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-reason-that-the-orca-is-called-a-killer-whale-instead-of-a-killer-dolphin
:https://www.quora.com/Why-do-we-call-them-killer-whales-when-they-are-types-of-dolphins
:There may be other theories, but this version seems to be the most accepted, and the pattern across sources is consistent. I’d be interested to see evidence that this is a false claim. [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 17:51, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::Another source: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5212899 [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::It might not be right because we don’t know for sure, so it’s not that absurd.
::: Also another source
:::https://www.eaglewingtours.com/articles/why-are-they-called-killer-whales/#:~:text=So%2C%20it's%20no%20surprise%20that,got%20flipped%20to%20killer%20whales.
:::We don’t ''have'' to add it, but you saying "absurd" seems kinda offensive. [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 18:08, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Any source that says that they are "dolphins, not whales" is too absurd to cite (not all of the sources listed above make that claim, but some do). [[User:Plantdrew|Plantdrew]] ([[User talk:Plantdrew|talk]]) 00:31, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
:Perhaps we should consider ignoring this issue. There are two discussions about it, and there is 2 sides. However, we do know(I think) that it originated from ancient sailors observing them hunting whales. I could let this go if you say the words. [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 18:23, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::The specific text that I removed and you put back was "'''commonly called 'killer whales' due to a mistranslation of the Spanish "asesino de ballenas" (literally ”whale killer”)'''". You're giving me a load of sources for a different claim that I haven't ever questioned. Why did you put back a claim that there was ''a mistranslation of the Spanish "asesino de ballenas" (literally ”whale killer”)''? [[User:Kahvey|Kahvey]] ([[User talk:Kahvey|talk]]) 20:40, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I added it back because the phrase “killer whale” being a flipped or morphed version of “whale killer” (from Spanish “asesina de ballenas”) is widely said(or what I have seen). While I understand your point about mistranslation, I believe the phrasing reflects a historical misunderstanding or rewording that happened over time.
:::Many of the sources I shared point to the idea that Spanish whalers observed orcas preying on large whales and called them “asesina de ballenas” which probably meant to them killer of whales, (as they saw them hunt larger whales). This phrase seems to have been translated or interpreted as “whale killer,” which later got flipped into “killer whale.” It may not have been a direct mistranslation, but rather a linguistic evolution or reinterpretation over time, which is what I was trying to said.
:::I hope this cleared stuff up. [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 21:06, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Which specific sources mention that Spanish phrase? I do not see it in any of the sources you've posted here. [[User:Kahvey|Kahvey]] ([[User talk:Kahvey|talk]]) 21:09, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::As it’s not explicitly stated, it’s implied.
:::::In Spanish, “asesina de ballenas” literally translates to “whale killer,” or, as the Europeans likely meant, “killer of whales.”
:::::The only source I see that they called orcas killer whales is https://us.whales.org/whales-dolphins/facts-about-orcas/#:~:text=Why%20are%20orcas%20called%20'killer,what%20would%20you%20call%20them? 
:::::"They called orcas ballena asesina, or ‘killer whale.’ [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 21:32, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Even the Spanish wiki talks about it.
:::https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcinus_orca
:::"En español el término orca aparece en la traducción del licenciado Geronimo de Huerta de "la historia natural" de Plinio el viejo en 1603.[14][15] El término de «asesina-ballenas» fue acuñado por balleneros españoles en el siglo xviii al observarlas atacar y matar cetáceos grandes.[16] De ahí pasó al inglés, en el que el término fue erróneamente traducido como «killer whales», «ballenas asesinas» (en lugar de «whale killers»), término que fue posteriormente adoptado en español como ballena asesina.[17]"
:::Translated:
:::"In Spanish, the term orca appears in Geronimo de Huerta's translation of Pliny the Elder's "Natural History" in 1603.[14][15] The term "whale killer" was coined by Spanish whalers in the 18th century after observing them attacking and killing large cetaceans.[16] It then passed into English, where the term was erroneously translated as "killer whales" (instead of "whale killers"), a term that was later adopted in Spanish as ballena asesina.[17]"
:::I don't know anymore 😭. We can keep the article as it is if you want. [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 21:18, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Wikis are not reliable. Nor are random people on reddit, posts on quora, or youtube videos. No reliable source that I know of contains the claim that whalers translating Spanish badly is the origin of the name "killer whale". If you know different, post it. [[User:Kahvey|Kahvey]] ([[User talk:Kahvey|talk]]) 21:24, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::If CWR is reliable,
:::::https://www.whaleresearch.com/copy-of-about-orcas
:::::“The name killer whale originated from the Spanish whaler’s term "whale killer," based on their observations of orcas hunting other types of whales.”
:::::In Spanish, “whale killer” is either asesino/a de ballenas or asesino/a ballenas. [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 21:36, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Here's one from 2016, idk if it's reliable.
:::::https://oceanadventures.co.za/orcas/
:::::"The name originates from the mistranslation of the 18th century Spanish name “asesina de ballenas” which directly translates to killer of whales, which is what could have been observed – pods of orcas hunting whales" [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 21:38, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::The first one does not mention the phrase "asesina de ballenas". The second is, I am sure, directly copied from Wikipedia. Scholarly sources predating Wikipedia should be easy to find if there is any basis whatsoever to the claim. [[User:Kahvey|Kahvey]] ([[User talk:Kahvey|talk]]) 21:56, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::The first one doesn’t explicitly mention it, but as I mentioned in that message,
:::::::“In Spanish, ‘whale killer’ is either asesino/a de ballenas or asesino/a ballenas.”
:::::::CWR states, “The name killer whale originated from the ‘Spanish’ whaler’s term "whale killer," based…"
::::::: [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 23:48, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Looking at the "Unscientific claim in "Naming" section."
:::::::It states "It claims orcas to have been called "ballenas asesinas" (killer whales), so the "mistranslation" theory is out of thin air"
:::::::Which was then used a lot (or what people believed to be true), this is why I heard it everywhere, and believed it was true. 
:::::::Do you have any proof that it originated from ancient fishermen? (I haven’t seen any scientific evidence yet.) [[User:Sniper3d107|Sniper3d107]] ([[User talk:Sniper3d107|talk]]) 23:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)