View source for Talk:Nicolae Iorga

{{DYK talk|23 May|2011|entry=... that [[Romania]]n scholar '''[[Nicolae Iorga]]''' constructed a [[Conservatism|conservative]] vision of world history, contrasting [[Max Weber]]'s ''[[The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism|Protestant Ethic]]''?}}
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==Holocaust denial==

: The claim that communists infiltrated the fascist groups and carried out the assassination for their own purposes is generally classed as an example of Holocaust denial.

Why Holocaust denial ? I can't see any connection between this and the Holocaust. [[User:Bogdangiusca|Bogdan]] | [[User talk:Bogdangiusca|Talk]] 09:49, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I didn't write the remark, and I don't think "Holocaust denial" is quite the term, but I assume this person meant to say that it generally comes from the same circles as Holocaust denial. It's an effort to get fascists off the hook, by saying they didn't really do what most of us would say the evidence rather plainly shows they did. -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 19:10, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

== Confusion ==

Sorry guys, I confused A.C. Cuza with A.I. Cuza, that's why I removed the paragraph. --[[User:Eurocopter tigre|Eurocopter tigre]] ([[User talk:Eurocopter tigre|talk]]) 19:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

== Bonaparte Highway ==

:''In Bucharest, Iorga received as a gift from his admirers a new Bucharest home on Bonaparte Highway (Iancului Boulevard)''

Actually, Bonaparte Highway was what is now Iancu de Hunedoara Blvd., between Piața Victoriei and Dorobanți. [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bucarest_1926.JPG see this 1926 map] [[User:Bogdangiusca|bogdan]] ([[User talk:Bogdangiusca|talk]]) 17:36, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:I'm confused. Aren't Iancului and Iancu one and the same? [[User:Dahn|Dahn]] ([[User talk:Dahn|talk]]) 17:58, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:: No, [[Iancului metro station|Iancului]] is the continuation of the Pache Protopopescu street, in the Mihai Bravu area. [http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=44.441609,26.137247&spn=0.008809,0.022638&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.916234,92.724609&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=16] and it's named after [http://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/Marșul_lui_Iancu the other Iancu]. [[User:Bogdangiusca|bogdan]] ([[User talk:Bogdangiusca|talk]]) 18:20, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:::I had no idea. I just thought the subway station was being redundant... Thanks. [[User:Dahn|Dahn]] ([[User talk:Dahn|talk]]) 18:33, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:: And it seems that the house was [http://www.dilemaveche.ro/sectiune/bordeie-obiceie/articol/o-lista-drep-ilor demolished in 1986]. [[User:Bogdangiusca|bogdan]] ([[User talk:Bogdangiusca|talk]]) 18:36, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
:::Yep, it's in there already - "Political symbol". [[User:Dahn|Dahn]] ([[User talk:Dahn|talk]]) 19:25, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

==Iorga and Fascism==


Iorga had a great sympathy for Italy, the sister country of Romania, and supported the idea of a special fiendship with Italy as well as with France, an other latin country.. Because at that time Fascism was ruling Italy, he had to keep good relations with fascist government of Rome. However he would have been fiend of the Italian government even in the case of other political leaders ruling the country. It is crucial to undeline this point.--[[User:Deguef|Deguef]] ([[User talk:Deguef|talk]]) 18:48, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
:In describing Iorga's sympathy for fascism and its limitations, this article follows what sources say. Your message is plausible, but reads like alternate history ("even in the case..."). There is also something flawed in the comparison to how he felt about France: as the article (and he sources it uses) notes, Iorga absolutely despised the French republican system, from early youth, and even in that context preferred to rub noses with the Action Française, the Camelots du Roi etc. [[User:Dahn|Dahn]] ([[User talk:Dahn|talk]]) 20:04, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Photo  ==

I have access to a source which depicts a photo of N. Iorga's body being lifted from the crime scene. As it was taken in 1940 and published in 1941, without any information about the photographer, it is more than sure public domain. Any thoughts if it's appropriate/good taste to upload it/include it in the article? --[[User:Dan Mihai Pitea|Dan Mihai Pitea]] ([[User talk:Dan Mihai Pitea|talk]]) 20:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

:I for one don't have an objection to the photo being used, with a proper copyright notice (I assume several such notices apply), but I think it should be actually uploaded on Wikimedia Commons, since it can then be freely reused in other projects.
:Please note: I took the liberty of reverting your addition of the Monitorul article as a source, since it is not actually cited in the text, and its mention is therefore against our guildelines for what should go into that section. I also tend to see that particular source as extraneous to the text, which cannot really go into that much detail. But yes, you should credit it as the source for the picture file, upon upload (I assume that is what your addition was meant to indicate?). [[User:Dahn|Dahn]] ([[User talk:Dahn|talk]]) 19:23, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

:: Thanks for the reply. Concerning the photo, I'll upload it sometime the next days to commons, as it's a shattering proof of what fanaticism can do, especially to those who have an appreciation of the magnitude of Iorga's personality.
:: About the source: I'll do some partial rewriting of the section pertaining to the murder and then add it again, because it is very accurate and it represents the unrefuted position of the Romanian authorities concerning the massacre, assassinations and attempted assassinations on Guță Tătărescu, Argetoianu and co. Madgearu was "arrested" and killed right before Iorga (around 15:00, so not the same night) and linking the massacre to the unearthing was just propaganda, as all the killings were planned independently and the persons digging up Codreanu's remains never left the gravesite in a “fateful fury”, as the Legion would have us believe. Regards, --[[User:Dan Mihai Pitea|Mihai]] ([[User talk:Dan Mihai Pitea|talk]]) 17:45, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

:::That's fine with me. [[User:Dahn|Dahn]] ([[User talk:Dahn|talk]]) 19:11, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

== A list of works? ==
It would make this article more useful if it had a bibliography of Iorga's works. -- [[User:Llywrch|llywrch]] ([[User talk:Llywrch|talk]]) 23:24, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
:His most important works (i. e. the ones that are even briefly mentioned in his standard biographies) are mentioned in the body of text. A list of his complete works, if feasible, would be as large as an entire article -- excluding his brochures and his articles. Consider that his secretary Barbu Theodorescu wasted several years of his life to come up with a list of Iorga's published works that counts as comprehensive. It is in itself a brochure... [[User:Dahn|Dahn]] ([[User talk:Dahn|talk]]) 08:36, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== Splitting proposal ==
{{Archive top|result=Proposal '''withdrawn'''. <big>[[User:Yue|<span style="color:#F92F60; font-family:Consolas, monospace">''Yue''</span>]][[User talk:Yue|💌]]</big> 19:33, 6 February 2025 (UTC)}}
{{Ping|Dahn|Biruitorul}} This article is quite long. The [[WP:SIZERULE|rule of thumb]] is to split or trim almost any article longer than 15,000 words, and this article is at 19,795. At the very least, I think the biography section should be [[WP:SPLIT|split]] into [[Biography of Nicolae Iorga]], but I'm not knowledgeable enough about Iorga (and won't have the time during the next few weeks to become knowledgeable enough) to perform a split myself. [[User:PrinceTortoise|<span style="color:olive">Prince</span>'''<span style="color:green">Tortoise</span>''']] (<span style="color:gray">he/him</span> • [[User talk:PrinceTortoise|<span style="color:gray">poke</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/PrinceTortoise|<span style="color:gray">inspect</span>]]) 20:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
*I find the notion that a biographical article should have a separate "biography of" spin-off remarkably absurd. [[User:Dahn|Dahn]] ([[User talk:Dahn|talk]]) 20:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

:I didn’t write the article (the honor belongs to Dahn), but I agree that a split would be counterproductive. Yes, it’s a bit long, but whatever we gained by splitting would be lost in incoherence and redundancy. [[User:Biruitorul|Biruitorul]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Biruitorul|Talk]]</sup></small> 21:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

::After reading your comments, I see that a separate [[Biography of Nicolae Iorga]] article is a profoundly bad idea. {{Ping|Dahn}} As the author of the article, do you see another way this article could be shortened to a more readable length? [[User:PrinceTortoise|<span style="color:olive">Prince</span>'''<span style="color:green">Tortoise</span>''']] (<span style="color:gray">he/him</span> • [[User talk:PrinceTortoise|<span style="color:gray">poke</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/PrinceTortoise|<span style="color:gray">inspect</span>]]) 21:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
:::I personally think that articles such as this one should be a test case against the 15,000 words guideline -- I wrote this as a summary of a very complex life, and tried to squeeze in all the relevant POVs on someone who actually shaped a good part of the modern Romanian narrative (both by interpreting history and, well, being history), who was both deeply loved and savagely ridiculed by people of various political persuasions, and who was probably one of the more famous Romanians the world over. This to my mind is how articles should be written, including on underdeveloped subjects -- I realize for instance that this article is longer than what we have on [[Victor Hugo]] (whose bio can be said to mirror the complexities of Iorga's own), but to my mind this suggests that the Hugo article should be properly (re)written to more closely resemble what we have here. 21:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
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