View source for Talk:Munster Rugby

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==Untitled==
The last weeks and days have seen a large number of claim/counter claim.  Munster are great/Munster are rubbish etc.  While we all have opinions, Wikipedia is supposed to be an independent view.  Your support in this is appreciated.  If you do have opinions, this discussion page is the place for them and not the main article.  Remember that repeated abuse of articles is regarded as vandalism.[[User:Nelson50|Nelson50]] 18:38, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

==Former "Players"==
Brian Lima? YEs I know he was signed but he didn't play one game. Thus I can't warrant his inclusion as a former player.

What's the problem with the term out-half?  It's by far the most common term used (in Ireland at any rate) for the number 10 position.  The official Munsterrugby site even lists O'Gara as an out-half....
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/provincialplayerpage/17119.html

There is a standard set of names for positions as used by the IRB. It was created because different unions use different names for the same position e.g. fly half, outside half, stand-off, first five eights etc, this causes confusion especially amongst those new to the game. I had never heard of the term 'out half' until you used it. I think it's best to use the standard terms on what is an international project ot at least put the standard term in brackets 'out half (fly half)'. Have a look at [[Rugby union positions]] to see how confusing it can be. [[User:GordyB|GordyB]] 12:09, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

http://www.irb.com/Playing/training/Understanding+Rugby.htm lists a number of names for the number 10 position but it's not clear if one is favoured (or more standard) than any other (unless there's another page/document from the IRB that sheds some light on it).  Having said that "first five eight" and "fly half" seem to be mentioned more frequently than "out-half".  Having the discussion associated with this page (and maybe copying it to the Rugby Positions Article) will provide some useful information for those (like me!) that get confused. 
[[User:Rhd_7|Rhd_7]]

As far as I know there is no IRB document available on the internet that states what their prefered terms are. I can only show you what sources I used to produce that article. The article you linked to was obviously written by a New Zealander as the terms he uses first are Kiwi terms (usually similar to rugby league terminology) see [[Rugby League positions]], the second set are the standard IRB terms.
Wikipedia tries to use neutral terms where possible so for example the game known to Americans as 'football' is listed under 'American football' despite the fact that Americans do not use this term themselves where as Association football goes under 'football (soccer)'. In Ireland it is common to refer to Gaelic football as 'football' but that would mislead a non-Irishman. Most Brotons would probably guess that out half=outside half (still reasonably common term) but I'm not sure that southern hemisphere types would.[[User:GordyB|GordyB]] 19:36, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

copied to [[Talk:Rugby union positions]]

==We were on our way==

This needs serious de-POVing.  It's supposed to be an encyclopedia article, not a fan site!  [[User:Gerry Lynch|Gerry Lynch]] 01:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

==Tricolour?==
is it appropriate to use the tricolour opposite the players who are qualified for Ireland? The Ulster rugby article on Wikipedia uses a nice flag depicting a shamrock on a white background.  (Is this the IRFU flag?).  Perhaps it would be better to have a standard arrangement for all these closely related articles on Wikipedia, and I don't think it would necessarily be appropriate to use the tricolour for the Ulster players qualified to play for Ireland.  The shamrock on the white background might also be a good way of identifying Irish-qualified players playing for English or French clubs, rather than the tricolour.  (See, e.g., the Harlequins page on Wikipedia, which uses the tricolour).

:Agreed. This page somehow got missed.[[User:GordyB|GordyB]] 21:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

WRT Irish rugby, we should try to use the shamrock flag. There is no RoI team, so it's best to use a shamrock flag. The IRFU logo is too intricate, so the basic shamrock flag is a good compromise I think. As for Irish qualified players playing for other countries - I think we are complicating the matter. If a player chooses to play for, say England, then the English flag should be used exclusively. However if a player has played or qulaified for two countries, then both flags should be used.
[[User:Redred514|Redred514]] 16:37, 16 January 2007 (EST)

Personally i believe the Irish Tri-Colour Flag Should Be beside the munster players and all irish Players politics has no place in Sport if there are any Player who dont want the flag beside there name then dont have it beside there name
:If you do that, then you can't use the tricolour to represnt the national team. A tiny bit bizarre to use one symbol for players but another for the team. We're not exactly going to contact individual players to find out whether they object to the tricolour or not.[[User:GordyB|GordyB]] 19:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

What about Ulster players from Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan, should the have the "Shamrock flag"? The tri-colour should be used for all of them.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Munsterdevil|Munsterdevil]] ([[User talk:Munsterdevil|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Munsterdevil|contribs]]) 16:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Munster away jersey. ==

Hi lads, the Munster away jersey as depicted on the website is actually a false one.
Munster's away jersey of choice and the one listed with the ERC is a Navy Jersey with red trim.
As wore on several occasions by Munster.
Cheers
Donn O Sullivan Limerick Post Newspaper, Munster Ireland.

*[http://www.munsterrugbystore.com/munsterstore/product.asp?numRecordPosition=10&P_ID=228&strPageHistory=&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=68 This] grey and black jersey at the official Munster online store is listed as the team's current "alternate jersey", with the navy and red one being termed a [http://www.munsterrugbystore.com/munsterstore/product.asp?numRecordPosition=3&P_ID=272&strPageHistory=&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=68 training jersey]. Was the jersey changed to the grey-and-black one recently? --[[User:Kwekubo|Kwekubo]] 18:22, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

*In the Celtic/Magners League when Munster play Llanelli Scarlets (also with red jerseys so change strip is required) both teams' away have worn navy as their away jersey. Therefore I think the training jersey is actually their away strip. I have never seen the other one used. An example picture would be this one [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/4265166.stm] [[User:Alexj2002|Alexj2002]] 15:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

::Last year, the change strip was certainly navy, however I am not sure that this is the case this year with the official website stating grey. Does anyone have a photo from this weekends ([[2006-11-05]]) match against the Scarlets. This would answer the question as the scarlets wore red. --[[User:Grcampbell|Bob]] 16:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Def. Grey jerseys... as can be seen [http://www.sportingwales.com/artman/publish/article_8710.shtml here]. --[[User:Grcampbell|Bob]] 18:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

== NPOV ==

This article  uses far too many flowery expression and generally sings the praised of Munster a little too much ([[User:Gnevin|Gnevin]] 17:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC))
: No real need to expand this , this article is npov ([[User:Gnevin|Gnevin]] 01:12, 5 February 2007 (UTC))

I can see a Leinster fan added his own little tid-bit into the section on the All-Blacks. I have marked this sentence for its neutrality because no Rugby match, especially one against New Zealand, is won by the out-half alone. The forwards were outstanding that day, matching the more professional Kiwis for power and aggression, almost unheard of in the European game back then. Also Tony Ward played most of his club rugby for Garryowen, one of Munster's premier clubs. Unless anyone can give me a reason not to, I'm going to edit most of that sentence out. I shall leave in the bit about Ward being from Leinster but the rest of it should be removed I feel.
::Correct, I feel - go ahead [[User:Nelson50|Nelson50]] 19:57, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

==Fair use rationale for Image:Munster rugby badge.png==
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[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] 03:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

== Singular ==

Folks, just a reminder when editing this article that "Munster" and "team" are singular nouns and take "is", not "are". [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 14:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
:Not in UK English. Teams can be either "it" or "they".[[User:GordyB|GordyB]] ([[User talk:GordyB|talk]]) 17:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

== Removed "Results Against Touring Rugby Nations"==
The below content was recently added in good faith by an anon. I have removed it (but kept here for "reuse") as it is too extensive for an article at this level. Per [[WP:NOT#STATS]], "Wikipedia is not a repository of long and sprawling lists of statistics". Certainly where they impact the readability of the article. If deemed valuable - or indicative of a unique aspect of the history of the club - these MIGHT be summarised and/or spawned into their own article. But in this form they are too much. [[User:Guliolopez|Guliolopez]] ([[User talk:Guliolopez|talk]]) 18:32, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 === Vs New Zealand (All Blacks) ===
 Tue 28th November 1905  - Munster 0-33  New Zealand
 Wed 13th January 1954   - Munster 3-6   New Zealand
 Wed 11th December 1963  - Munster 3-6   New Zealand
 Tue 16th January 1973   - Munster 3-3   New Zealand
 Sat 9th November 1974   - Munster 4-14  New Zealand
 Tue 31st October 1978   - Munster 12-0  New Zealand
 Sat 11th November 1989  - Munster 9-31  New Zealand
 Tue 18th November 2008  - Munster 16-18 New Zealand
 '''Played 8 Won    1 Drawn  1 Lost   6'''

 === Vs Australia (Wallabies) ===
 Tue 9th December 1947  - Munster 5-6 Australia
 Tue 21st January 1958  - Munster 3-3 Australia
 Wed 25th January 1967  - Munster 11-8 Australia
 Tue 13th January 1976  - Munster 13-15 Australia
 Tue 17th November 1981 - Munster 15-6 Australia
 Sat 17th November 1984 - Munster 19-31 Australia
 Wed 21st October 1992 - Munster 22-19 Australia
 Tue 26th November 1996 - Munster 19-55 Australia
 '''Played 8 Won 3 Drawn 1 Lost 4'''

 === Vs South Africa (Springboks) ===
 Tues 11th December 1951 - Munster 6-11 South Africa
 Wed 21st December 1960 - Munster 3-9 South Africa
 Wed 14th January 1970 - Munster 9-25 South Africa
 '''Played 3 Won 0 Drawn 0 Lost 3'''

 === Vs Argentina (Pumas) ===
 Wed 31st October 1973 - Munster 12-12 Argentina
 '''Played 1 Won 0 Drawn 1 Lost 0'''

 === Vs Western Samoa ===
 Sat 9th November 1996 - Munster 25-35 Western Samoa
 '''Played 1 Won 0 Drawn 0 Lost 1'''

 === Vs Canada ===
 Sat 20th October 1962 - Munster 11-8 Canada
 '''Played 1 Won 1 Drawn 0 Lost 0'''
 
 === Vs Romania ===
 Sat 4th October 1980 - Munster 9-32 Romania
 '''Played 1 Won 0 Drawn 0 Lost 1'''

 '''Total games played - 23'''
 '''Won - 5'''
 '''Drawn - 3'''
 '''Lost - 15'''

== Irish Players/ British and Irish Lions ==

I feel that Notable Players section should be cleaned up and perhaps have some parts removed.

Looking at the lists I feel these were plucked from people's memory rather than any real source and favour players that have played in recent times. I would favour the removal of the list of Irish internationals as Munster being one of the four braches of the IRFU would have countless internationals and this list could go on. Also one of the four braches of the union (and one of the "big three") having players on the national team is not really that notable. I feel a list like this is more suitable to a club's page like Shannon, Young Munster or Cork Con were the achievement is more notable.

Lions players are obviously notable but once again this list seems to be plucked out of peoples heads- I notice even a few ommissions myself.

Also I would question the value of notable overseas players. Should this not be notable munster players and include everyone. 

Anyway regardless of how people feel on the last two issues I would like to remove the Irish international section if a consensus can be reached.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Limericksham|Limericksham]] ([[User talk:Limericksham|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Limericksham|contribs]]) 18:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I agree. Not only is this list not exhaustive, it is not encyclopedic in that it "records" caps, rather than explaining what a cap is, if you get my drift. I feel the same way about the constantly expanding table of match scores. Imagine if every match gets added to Wikipedia - the whole server farm would go down. Further, there are two categories: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Lions_rugby_union_footballers Lions players] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Irish_rugby_union_international_footballers Irish players]. Perhaps both of these could have sub-categories created for the provinces, Welsh regions, etc. Just a thought. Go ahead and remove the list, but I would suggest you follow the example of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AMunster_Rugby&diff=254057342&oldid=248293017 Guliolopez] above and retain the list is on this talk page. '''[[User:Nelson50|<span style="color:#ecbb5c;background:#5a8000;padding:0 3px">Nelson50]]<span style="color:#fff;background:#ecbb5c;padding:0 3px;"><sup>[[User talk:Nelson50|T]]</sup></span></span>''' 20:01, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

* I agree that a Munster player playing for Ireland is not especially notable. Non–Irish internationals are more notable simply because there is less of them. However it is wrong to suggest that the Lions players were just plucked from memory. My memory does not go back as far as 1910 ! Section has references, one of which is online. If editors notice any omissions, then add them in. Don’t just have a go at other editors. There are already categories for Munster, Ulster, Leinster, Connaught players. [[User:Djln|Djln]]--[[User:Djln|Djln]] ([[User talk:Djln|talk]]) 16:04, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Removed-

== IRFU Flag ==

Seeing as though the IRFU flag is copyrighted, I've removed all the flags to keep the uniformity of the page ([[User:Anthony of the Desert|Anthony of the Desert]] ([[User talk:Anthony of the Desert|talk]]) 21:37, 30 March 2009 (UTC)).

== 2009 Lions ==

The article reads as if the Lions tour has already happened. I would change the wording from "represented the Lions" to "were chosen to represent the Lions," as Thomas O'Leary won't actually be representing them and Quinlan may not actually go, but that is for another day.[[Special:Contributions/140.203.210.236|140.203.210.236]] ([[User talk:140.203.210.236|talk]]) 15:48, 5 May 2009 (UTC)Meldan
:I agree that the wording isn't right, but I wonder if earlier players will be done a disservice by changing the wording as suggested above. Some might have been chosen to represent but did not play, etc. I think reference to the 2009 Lions should be removed. The section says "these players have represented the Lions" (or similar) but the 2009 Lions have not played a game and so no-one has represented them! However, it's probably quite a minefield and would probably require cleaning up on most club pages with Lions in the 2009 squad!  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bigger digger|Bigger digger]] ([[User talk:Bigger digger|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bigger digger|contribs]]) 16:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::I have edited the article to indicate the 2009 squad members are not yet representatives of the 2009 Lions. Not long to go now though ;-) [[User:Bigger digger|Bigger digger]] ([[User talk:Bigger digger|talk]]) 19:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

== Score removal ==

An IP editor is removing the score from the Munster v Leinster HC S/F. I've reverted it (and am about to do so again) as I believe it's relevant and useful information. Does anyone else have an opinion? [[User:Bigger digger|Bigger digger]] ([[User talk:Bigger digger|talk]]) 13:58, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

<br />I didn't originally remove the score but have done so now as you are clearly just trying to stir it.--[[User:Limericksham|Limericksham]] ([[User talk:Limericksham|talk]]) 15:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

== New Colours ==
anyone able to update the colours of the home shorts from blue to red? [[User:GainLine|<span style="font-family:jokerman; color:navy;">'''G'''<small><s>ain</s></small>'''Line '''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/GainLine|<span style="color:black;">♠</span>]] <sub> [[User talk:GainLine|<span style="color:red;">♥</span>]]</sub> 20:50, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

==2009/2010 Celtic League (Magners) results==
I removed the results for this section as the season is just barely started. I presume that this section is for final results and not to reflect the curreent situation. If I'm wrong, please feel free to revert me. [[User:GainLine|<span style="font-family:jokerman; color:navy;">'''G'''<small><s>ain</s></small>'''Line '''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/GainLine|<span style="color:black;">♠</span>]] <sub> [[User talk:GainLine|<span style="color:red;">♥</span>]]</sub> 08:54, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

== Against the All Blacks ==

''The 12-0 victory occurred on Tuesday 31 October 1978 at Thomond Park, in front of a crowd of 214,746.'' This is a massive underestimate. My research in many bars and public houses in Munster and elsewhere leads me to estimate that the crowd on that day would have been at least 600,000 making it a record attendance for any football code. Seriously though does any one have an actual figure?

Why are New Zealand referred to as the All Blacks, and Australia simply as Australia. Should use the proper country names [[User:Silent Billy|Silent Billy]] ([[User talk:Silent Billy|talk]]) 00:47, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== 200 Club ==

Currently shows O'Gara on 232 appearences.  This should be 233 given that he will have his record 234th appearance on Saturday 5th January according to the [http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/11335.php official site]  So, how many other members of the 200 Club have the wrong total?  [[User:Hamish59|Hamish59]] ([[User talk:Hamish59|talk]]) 20:14, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

== Home Grounds - European Record ==

Under the home grounds section, it is stated that Munster never lost a home game in the European cup until Leicester in 2007. The record was that they never lost at Thomond Park but they were previously defeated by Cardiff in a home game at Musgrave Park.  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/194.127.72.6|194.127.72.6]] ([[User talk:194.127.72.6|talk]]) 10:17, 18 March 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Traditional Clubs ==

While it is true that Limerick is a hotbed of rugby more so than Cork, before the advent of the AIL, the three big traditional clubs would have been Cork Constitution, UCC (formerly Queens University Cork) and Garryowen, who would have won many of the Munster Senior Cups over the first 100 years of the competition and contributed many players to provincial and national teams. The article makes it appear as if Shannon and Young Munster; who do have proud traditions were always amongst the strongest clubs in the province.  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/194.127.72.6|194.127.72.6]] ([[User talk:194.127.72.6|talk]]) 10:20, 18 March 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Overseas Players ==

Does this section add any value? Why have a list of all overseas players that have ever played, and not have a list of all Irish players that have ever played for the club? I am tempted to remove this list, but wanted to see if there were any objections first. [[User:Barryjjoyce|Barryjjoyce]] ([[User talk:Barryjjoyce|talk]]) 05:04, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, I believe it does add some value. For anyone wishing to learn more about Munster Rugby, it is a quick and easy way to display which overseas players have represented Munster, the significance being, traditionally, that Munster supplements its squad with overseas 'stars' to boost their strength. I think there is a significant difference between 'every overseas' and 'every Irish' as Irish rugby has only recently (in the last two decades or so) started to bring in overseas players to compliment what have always been largely homegrown squads. If this was about a French or English club, I would understand, as they use a lot more overseas players. [[User:MunsterFan2011|MunsterFan2011]] ([[User talk:MunsterFan2011|talk]]) 07:06, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

The note says: 'Flags indicate national union as has been defined under WR eligibility rules.' CJ Stander is now playing for Ireland so his South Afrikan flag is presumably no longer correct. [[User:HenryLarsen|HenryLarsen]] ([[User talk:HenryLarsen|talk]]) 10:55, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

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Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 18:27, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 11 external links on [[Munster Rugby]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=782072268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 14 external links on [[Munster Rugby]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=783796955 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://munsterrugby.ie/match-stats/?FixGuid=16MM0335
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 12 external links on [[Munster Rugby]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=799675902 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
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== Academy listing ==

Conor Phillips and Cian Hurley joined the Munster academy in the 2020-21 season. As such they should (I believe) be classed as Year 2 players (along with Alex Kendellan and Scott Buckley) according to the logic applied to the other academy players.

There is also an argument that assuming that all academy players listed should be moved back a year (for example Eoin O’Connor and Paddy Kelly should be listed as Year 2). Munster have not confirmed the make up of their academy for 2021-22, so for example, it has not been confirmed that Paddy and Eoin are moving into year 3. [[User:CiallNollins|CiallNollins]] ([[User talk:CiallNollins|talk]]) 12:19, 21 July 2021 (UTC)