View source for Talk:Molokai

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{{old move|date=10 July 2023|destination=Molokaʻi|result=not moved|link=Talk:Oahu#Requested_move_10_July_2023}}

== {{anchor|'Okina exclusion}} ʻOkina exclusion ==

According to www.wehewehe.org - home of the electronic Hawaiian dictionary - Hawaiian Dictionary written by Mary Kawena Pukui and Samuel Elbert, includes Place Names of Hawai'i written by Mary Kawena Pukui, Samuel Elbert, and Esther Mo'okini, the 'okina is included in the spelling of the island "Moloka'i", but according to long time residents of the island, the ancient spelling and pronouciation is without the [['okina]], "Molokai".   <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.161.140.89|24.161.140.89]] ([[User talk:24.161.140.89|talk]]) 06:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> 

I removed the portion about how the island is pronounced "Molokai" outside of Hawaiian and Hawaiian English since this was only listed with the island of O'ahu.  Many of us on Molokai pronounce the island name without the 'okina.  I was told by not one but by two people later in life that they heard of how since pronunciation of the island's name in the song "Molokai Nui a Hina" did people begin pronouncing it incorrectly.  Many of the old Hawaiians on the island who speak Hawaiian do not insert the 'okina in the island's name.  I cannot remember if Kupuna Kauwila, of whom I learned Hawaiian from pronounces it or not.  I'll have to find out.  But for most part, people do not pronounce it especially in colloquial speech.  It has to do with the meaning behind the name although that was one person's version of the story.  [[User:Mamoahina|Mamoahina]] 00:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
:Very interesting story. It would be nice to get this correct or at least detail the variants. Of course most people on Oahu pronounce that island name (and Molokai) without the okina as well, but they are doing so out of ignorance  - [[User:Marshman|Marshman]] 05:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
::{{Reply to|Mamoahina}} I also grew up saying "Molokai" without the ʻokina for the same reason: the older residents of the island don't use it, nor do my family members (with some exceptions). A cousin of mine who is fluent in Hawaiian supports the theory that an ʻokina was introduced in music; his explanation was that it helps lyricists rhyme when writing. I wish I could find more documentation to support this; perhaps an older version of the Hawaiian dictonary (Pukui, Elbert, and Moʻokini) would help. -- [[User:Lkdaue|Lkdaue]] ([[User talk:Lkdaue|talk]]) 19:25, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
:Why though? [[User:Oliealorpoal|Oliealorpoal]] ([[User talk:Oliealorpoal|talk]]) 03:40, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I noticed that the 'okina had recently been removed, and I checked the Hawaiian language Wikipedia; it's still in the name [https://haw.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloka%E2%80%98i there]. What sources would be considered authoritative for the name of the island?
[[Special:Contributions/2620:0:1009:202:9A2A:BA95:323B:2682|2620:0:1009:202:9A2A:BA95:323B:2682]] ([[User talk:2620:0:1009:202:9A2A:BA95:323B:2682|talk]]) 19:18, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

: The entry in the most important dictionary (cf. [[Mary Kawena Pukui]]) uses the [[ʻokina]] and doesn't list other versions of the name:
:* {{Hawaiian Dictionaries | Molokaʻi | id=D123440 }} 
:* {{Hawaiian Dictionaries | Molokaʻi | id=D151406 }} 
:--[[User:ThT|ThT]] ([[User talk:ThT|talk]]) 10:31, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I checked the [[Special:Diff/947910385/948915376|destructive edit]] which not only removed the [[ʻokina]], but included deletion of archive links, changes without references, and arbitrary changes as well. Therefore I [[Special:Diff/950954686/952660821|reverted]] this edit to enable changes citing [[Wikipedia:Citing sources|reliable sources]] and respecting the [[WP:NPOV]] guidelines. However, the article ''So is it Molokai or Moloka’i?'' ([https://themolokaidispatch.com/so-it-molokai-or-moloka-i/]) seems to be relevant enough to be cited, although it lacks scholarly exactness (e.g. using the wrong [[Unicode|unicode]] symbol for the [[ʻokina]]) and overlooks the fact, that the missionaries weren't linguists. --[[User:ThT|ThT]] ([[User talk:ThT|talk]]) 12:07, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

== Molokai picture from Kaanapali ==

Whoever posted the photo of Molokai from Kaanapali better make sure they posted the correct photo.  I would say that it looks like Lanai, however if it is actually taken from Kaanapali, the shape of Molokai looks different especially since Molokai is known for its seacliffs on the northern side, almost the entire northern side of the island which would be on the right hand side of the photo.  If you look at that photo, it doesn't show that.  Plus the mountains (Kamakou) are tall and this particular photo doesn't show tall mountains. [[User:Mamoahina|Mamoahina]] 14:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
:This photo shows the correct island. (I took it in series with other ones of Lana'i, Kaho'olawe, and Molokini from the west coast of Maui.) When you're at Ka'anapali, you're looking at Moloka'i ''to'' your northwest (which is to say, from a southeast angle), so you shouldn't be able to see the cliffs on the northern side of the island. Also, the mountains may be tall, but the highest point is not even one mile high, so I don't know what you're expecting to find when you look at it. [[:Image:National-atlas-hawaii.png|This image]] may help to orient you in terms of what angle you're looking at Molokai from (it's just north of Lahaina, which is marked on the map). --[[User:Makaristos|Makaristos]] 17:51, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
:: You can distinctly see the mountains of Molokai and gulches that are numerous in Mana'e, Molokai.  It's easy to mistake Lanai for Molokai when you're on the western portion of Maui, but coming from Molokai and knowing how the eastern portion of the island is, I have to say that that photo isn't Molokai. The shape of Lanai's mountain is very, very familiar to me since i saw it all the time daily.  I found some other views of Molokai taken from Kaanapali.
::http://images.vrbo.com/vrbo/images/25662
::That photo above is what I remember seeing from Waialua, where the ocean gets bluer and is deeper since you are farther from the reef. 
::This next link below is not a clear photo but the shape of those mountains is what I distinctly remember and how you can tell the islands apart.
::http://www.lokelanimaui.com/Images/LvRm%20Lanai%20to%20Molokai.jpg  Only other suggestion I have is to use GOOGLE EARTH and start from Kaanapali and you'll see what I mean by the shape of the mountains.  [[User:Mamoahina|Mamoahina]] 21:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

== Types of non-native animals on Molokai Ranch ==

Does anyone know of an inventory of imported animals (mammals primarily) in Molokai Ranch? Most web references I've found have been only for axis deer, although there are some notes about a variety of "African mammals" including giraffes that were once there when the Ranch ran "safaris" but they've been moved off the island. When I was mountain-biking there recently, I saw a huge herd of what I thought were prong-horn deer or gazelle move by, but didn't get a picture as it was raining.

== Size ==

Was Molokai ever considered one of main islands with the four other islands, of Oahu, kauai, Maui, and Hawaii?  Does anybody know why it has never become its own seperate county?  I feel bad for the island it always a possession of Maui and in ancient times even Oahu.   I always thought the island didn't have their own independent kings until I stumbled upon their first king Kamauaua.    It's bigger than any of the other 3 islands of Lanai, Kahoolawe, and Niihau which have always been dependency of other islands.  I just like people to know.    [[User:KAVEBEAR|KAVEBEAR]] ([[User talk:KAVEBEAR|talk]]) 02:44, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
: I have no idea what you mean by main island.  If you mean by today how it's considered a major (excluding Niihau & Kahoolawe) or one of those main islands that the HVB usually promotes?  If the latter, then it's obvious that tourism has always been focused on Oahu followed by Maui & Kauai with the Big Island being the latter.  But due to its history with it being a part of the Maui Kingdom (during Piilani on down) as well as part of Oahu and on its own by the ancestors of the Peelua family of Molokai (their ancestor Peeluakoloiaao was the 19th great-grandson of Kamauaua & Hinakeha) as well as an ancestor to many of us through 'Umi's mother 'Akahi, it was only because during the Kingdom times it was pretty much governed by the same governor of Maui, which eventually led to nearly the entire island being part of Maui county minus Kalawao which is its own county.  Therefore, Molokai is the only island that has 2 counties. 

: Molokai's history is rich just as any other island although I'm not sure how much its actual size had anything to do with its current situation.  Hula began here with La'ila'i and it was her mo'opuna that decided to teach hula to others throughout the island chain.  With hula the island also teaches its genealogy of hula kumu that goes back to La'ila'i.  Molokai's wealth was measured, as in other parts of the island chain, based on how much food it produced and its multiple loko i'a or fishponds fed many of our ancient aliis, such as the great Maui chief Kamehamehanui, son of Kekaulike, and Kamehamehanui's son Kalanihelemailuna, the father of Abner K. Paki who became the father of Princess Pauahi Bishop.  A school of sorcery known as hoopiopio was started by Makaweliweli whose father Kaiakea, known as the kahu of the Kalaipahoa gods of which later King Kamehameha took possession of.  Kaiakea's son was Peeluakoloiaao whom I mentioned above. 

: Contrary to the rather slow tourism & its very rural lifestyle, many of the residents prefer the lifestyle as it is.  The less focus there is, the better.  I always hear other Molokaians tell me how many changes it is going through due to an influx of foreigners buying homes & retiring on Molokai.  They fall in love with the lifestyle & move to Molokai but later complain how it's not compatible compared to the places they've lived in & demand that changes must be made in order to make life more compatible to their own tastes.  Yes, I too would like people to "know". [[User:Mamoahina|Mamoahina]] ([[User talk:Mamoahina|talk]]) 01:11, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

== Cleanup POV ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Molokai&diff=prev&oldid=223256134 This material] was added by {{user|Cosa Nostradamus}} It needs to be cleaned up to meet basic standards for inclusion. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 11:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

:I felt the original left something to be desired re POV so tried to neutralize it. I hope by so doing it meets the concerns of {{user|Cosa Nostradamus}}. Obviously, a lot more could be written about this, but since it's still happening and people are actively involved, let's keep it very neutral. Time will tell how it will all work out. [[User:Makana Chai|Makana Chai]] ([[User talk:Makana Chai|talk]]) 22:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
::Excellent work.  You are both a lady and a scholar.  BTW, I would expect an article like this to have at least [[Economy of Molokai]] and/or [[Politics of Molokai]] as separate articles, especially the latter.  I'm currrently working on a draft of [[History of Niihau]], so I've got my hands full, but if you feel up to it... [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 05:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Mahalo! I'm more interested in ancient history than current politics, so I won't be able to do that. I'm definitely interested in reading your work on the history of Niihau! [[User:Makana Chai|Makana Chai]] ([[User talk:Makana Chai|talk]]) 19:06, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Same here, although I've had to try to write about politics in order to salvage content (see for example [[Talk:Hawaiian sovereignty movement/Temp]] which still needs work).  In regards to Niihau, I'm particularly interested (and looking for) historical information in the modern era, specifically from 1964-2008.  If you run across anything you find interesting, feel free to copy it over to [[User:Viriditas/History of Niihau]] or just add it to the main article.  Thanks. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 09:42, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Do you know the little book  Aloha Niihau/ Oral Histories -- it might have some info for you. I also see on amazon a book  Niihau: The Traditions of an Hawaiian Island. [[User:Makana Chai|Makana Chai]] ([[User talk:Makana Chai|talk]]) 13:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::Yes, I own it.  Adding it to Niihau now. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 13:06, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

==tropical rainforest?==
Since Hawaii is not in the tropics, can it be correct to call this a tropical rainforest? [[User:Makana Chai|Makana Chai]] ([[User talk:Makana Chai|talk]]) 07:28, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
:Hawaii is in fact in the tropics. The [[Tropic of Cancer]] is at about 23.5° N; Hawaii ranges from about 19.5–21.5° N. --[[User:Makaristos|Makaristos]] ([[User talk:Makaristos|talk]]) 07:35, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

== [[Morotai]]? ==

Is there an Austronesian linguistic connection between the two names?--[[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Kintetsubuffalo]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 06:32, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

A LOT of ancient writers actually spelled (maybe heard) the name Molokai: MOROTAI. On Morotai island Indonesia, most people are not austronesians AFAIK BUT Gorap is said to be an austronesian language... I have been unable to trace the name of the island origin or to find other names looking like polynesian names in this area though so it might be just a coincidence (?) Stefjourdan

== Sugar Mills on Molokai ==

The Meyer Sugar Mill on Molokai is probably the best-known mill, due to its current status as a museum and the impact that R. W. Meyer and his family had on the commerce and development of Molokai. However, there was at least one more mill, slightly older, on Molokai, in Kamalō.

The McCorriston brothers, Daniel and Hugh McCorriston, ran the Kamalō Sugar Plantation for their cousin, John C. McColgan (aka John H. McColgan, John N. McColgan, and John Kamanoulu) from 1873. This plantation and mill was built on about 4,000 acres of land leased from King Kamehameha V's estate in 1873, 300 acres of which were used for sugar cane farming. The mill was in operation by 1877, according to a 1939 interview with Chun Ah Ping, one of the first plantation workers. The mill for this operation came from McColgan's sugar plantation and mill in ʻEwa, on Oʻahu.

The Kamalō Sugar Plantation was exporting sugar to California by 1884, during which time it was being operated by Hugh and Daniel McCorriston. Upon McColgan's death in 1890, ownership passed to Daniel and Hugh under the condition of "share and share alike." Unfortunately, the mill burned down on August 7, 1891, due to unknown causes. The land was turned into a cattle ranch.

Suffice to say, Rudolph Wilhelm Meyer did not build " ... the first and only sugar mill on the island in 1878 ... " I did not make the change or add details because there's a possibility of COI editing; however, if another editor agrees that these are true statements, I would appreciate the updates!

Sources:
# https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27029967/john_mccolgan_start_of_kamalo/
# https://www.newspapers.com/clip/26433024/john_mccolgan_sugar_plantation_on/
# https://www.newspapers.com/clip/26303693/daniel_mccorriston_kamalo_sugar/
# https://www.newspapers.com/clip/27042820/john_mccolgan_middle_initial_is_c_not/
# “Hawaii, Wills and Probate Records, 1822-1962,” database and digital images, Ancestry.com (https://ancestry.com : accessed 11 January 2019), search for John McColgan, residing in Hawaii and died in 1890; Probate records, 1845-1900; indexes 1814-1917; Author: Hawaiian Islands. Circuit Court; Probate Place: Honolulu, Hawaii
# https://www.newspapers.com/clip/26256367/daniel_mccorriston_the_kamalo_sugar/

-- [[User:Lkdaue|Lkdaue]] ([[User talk:Lkdaue|talk]]) 19:18, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

== Arthur Albert St. Mouritz ==

The information about Arthur Albert St. Mouritz was [[Special:Diff/952667711/953572182|deleted]] with reference to [[WP:UNDUE]]. This seems to need more specific explanation than the linking to the guidelines only. Mouritz published a book about the subject in 1916 and he is mentioned in a recent scholarly study: Amundson, Ron (2010). [https://dsq-sds.org/article/view/1270/1300/ A Wholesome Horror: The Stigmas of Leprosy in 19th Century Hawaii]. ''Disability Studies Quarterly''. Volume 30 Number 3/4. The other cited references support the view, that Mouritz is relevant enough to be mentioned in the regarding section of the article. Without closer explanation for the deletion I'll restore the deleted passages. --[[User:ThT|ThT]] ([[User talk:ThT|talk]]) 14:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
: I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Molokai&type=revision&diff=961138822&oldid=959420787 restored the text] as previously announced. Please [[WP:CON|seek consensus]] here before changing again. --[[User:ThT|ThT]] ([[User talk:ThT|talk]]) 20:34, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

==To add to article==
To add to this article:  mention of the Kaluakoi Resort and hotel, now shuttered. [[Special:Contributions/173.88.246.138|173.88.246.138]] ([[User talk:173.88.246.138|talk]]) 01:55, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

== Move discussion in progress ==

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