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== 2006 ==
The article suggested that 'Minar-e-Pakistan' means 'Pakistan Day Memorial'. It actually means 'Tower of Pakistan'. I have changed the sentence to the correct meaning. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:86.27.61.220|86.27.61.220]] ([[User talk:86.27.61.220|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/86.27.61.220|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

I also like "Tower of Pakistan" better than "Pakistan Column", but I'm leaving it to a patriotic Pakistani and native Urdu speaker to make the call, out of respect. I also wasn't sure whether to use the A. ''manār'' or P. ''mīnār'' so I took an educated guess (my Ferozsons Urdu-English dictionary gives one and my Ferozsons English-Urdu gives the other. Hope I'm right in this usage, with the izafat as my guide. [[User:Khirad|Khirad]] 23:54, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

== Construction Year ==

There's no mention of any date in the article. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/203.81.229.29|203.81.229.29]] ([[User talk:203.81.229.29|talk]]) 23:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

== Height? ==
'''The base is about 8 meters above the ground. The tower rises about 62 meters on the base, thus the total height of minaret is about 92 meters above the ground.'''<br />
Strange. I get 8+62 totals 70 meters. How is that 92 meters calculated? Dutch wikipedia sums it to 72 m (strangely 60+8 m). [[Special:Contributions/85.217.20.33|85.217.20.33]] ([[User talk:85.217.20.33|talk]]) 15:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

== Coordinate error ==

{{tlc|geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for



—[[Special:Contributions/66.54.75.246|66.54.75.246]] ([[User talk:66.54.75.246|talk]]) 11:39, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
:{{done}}. You haven't said what error you're referring to; but it does appear that the coordinates were a bit off, and I've emended them. [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 16:32, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== Inspired by the Eiffel Tower ==

Nowhere in the article, it is said that it has been inspired by the Eiffel tower. But it's a reality. Just compare the pictures.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/80.215.72.178|80.215.72.178]] ([[User talk:80.215.72.178#top|talk]]) 11:05, 17 September 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::{{Not done}} You need to provide a source for that. Merely comparing pictures aren't a proof that a particular thing has been inspired by another. Also, according to my observation, they do not look the same. [[User:Knightrises10|Knightrises10]] ([[User talk:Knightrises10|talk]]) 11:15, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

== En masse public molestation and sexual violence against women ==

Section proposed to be added  

:"...A nurse by profession<ref>https://www.oyeyeah.com/news/lahore-incident-investigations/</ref> and freelance tiktok and Youtube vlogger actress Ayesha Akram and her team members were attacked, molested and looted  by a large crowd in the evening hours of Aug 14, 2021, on 75th independence day of Pakistan at Greater Iqbal Park, Minar-i-Pakistan . According to reports incidence carried on from 6.30 P.M. up to 8.40 p.m. Clips of incidence went viral on social media. Incidence was widely criticized for muteness of large spectator gathering around, also for absence of security guards at monument, delayed police response       .." <ref>https://www.dawn.com/news/1641229/case-against-400-for-harassing-making-fun-of-youtuber , https://images.dawn.com/news/1188213/twitter-users-renew-calls-of-yes-all-men-after-woman-assaulted-by-400-men-at-minar-e-pakistan , https://www.dawn.com/news/1641195 , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOwAZFVlgYI&t=31s , https://pakistanfrontier.com/2021/08/19/investigation-reveals-ayesha-akram-planned-minar-e-pakistan-incident-as-a-publicity-stunt-with-her-partner-rambo/ https://www.dawn.com/news/1642014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRgtGl_yfww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ny4a3DZjx8 https://dailytimes.com.pk/807469/police-submits-report-in-tiktoker-assault-case/ https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/883597-the-world-of-women https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/887777-minar-e-pakistan-incident-court-releases-98-suspects https://tribune.com.pk/story/2318994/new-world-same-violence-the-questionable-freedom-digital-spaces-enable-for-women https://www.thefridaytimes.com/pakistan-needs-to-devise-a-strategy-against-widespread-sexual-terrorism/ https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/pakistan-police-release-155-suspects-arrested-in-the-sexual-assault-of-a-youtuber-girl/article36333256.ece https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/09-Sep-2021/court-trashes-plea-seeking-case-against-tiktoker-ayesha-akram-friend , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w99p-mXOOk&t=4s , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cFAIP5nTnI ,  
 https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/11-Oct-2021/minar-e-pakistan-incident-new-audio-tape-exposes-extortion-plan-of-ayesha-akram-and-rambo , https://www.bolnews.com/trending/2021/10/iqrar-ul-hassan-apologizes-for-supporting-ayesha-ikram-after-her-audio-leak/ , https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/12-Oct-2021/3-more-arrested-as-minar-e-pakistan-harassment-case-takes-another-twist , https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/13-Oct-2021/minar-e-pakistan-incident-another-audiotape-of-ayesha-akram-rambo-surfaces , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAIsPEb4FYE , interview with [[Dolphin Force]] man : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Woi7_zc5SA , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iUwQ3gIlyE  https://www.dawn.com/news/1650972/minar-i-pakistan-case-complainants-associate-seven-others-arrested https://www.dawn.com/news/1662919 https://www.etcnews.tv/tiktoker-ayesha-akram-traffic-accident-mein-zakhmi/ https://nation.com.pk/19-Dec-2021/police-registers-another-sexual-harassment-case-at-minar-e-pakistan , https://www.bolnews.com/latest/2022/01/minar-i-pakistan-assault-case-lahore-court-grants-post-arrest-bail-to-suspect/ , https://arynews.tv/rambo-gets-bail-in-tiktoker-ayesha-akram-blackmailing-case/

</ref> 

[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 07:51, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
{{Reflist-talk}}

:{{Ping|Fairoz98}}, I keep taking note of women's rights issues. I do have drafts like [[Draft:Sexual politics]] and [[Draft:Sexual politics in south Asia]] actually each of drafts are not critical, I do have even drafts like [[Draft:Pawri Ho Rahi Hai]] or [[Draft:Humor during the COVID-19 pandemic]] or [[Draft:Aurats (word)]]. Why I am introducing my drafts or I added See also link to [[Rabindra Sarobar Stadium#En masse public molestation and sexual violence against women]] since many users not knowing that I work across topics keep bringing bad faith questions like am I targeting women rights issues of one specific country only, so before updating 14 Aug 2021  Minar-e-Pakistan incidence I added link to similar previous Indian public place sexual violence so users taking side of Pakistan need not feel afraid  with questions like is only Pakistan's record being targeted. For record I want to mention that I keep taking certain Western  and Black sea  women's rights issues too and this time here it is Minar-e-Pakistan.

:I am not insisting to keep link of [[Rabindra Sarobar Stadium#En masse public molestation and sexual violence against women]]  but requesting users to take note of Minar-e-Pakistan 14 Aug 2021 incidence. 

:I hope users understand, Thanks and warm regards, [[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 13:05, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

::Okay well some one seems to have already created new section regarding this issue already. I will be adding section see also template for [[Violence against women in Pakistan]] in  couple of days if no one else adds. [[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 08:52, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

* [https://www.geo.tv/latest/366137-no-space-for-women-in-pakistani-twitter-spaces Social media treatment], [https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/21-Aug-2021/was-the-brutal-attack-on-lahore-girl-planned Social media treatment 2] [https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2021/08/22/city-notes-bad-taste-not-a-crime-yet/ Social media treatment 3] [[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 02:42, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

:*('''current'''ly deleted) {{dif|1040904723|'''version in edit war'''}}, mainly created by IP 103.98.129.20 and latest deletion by IP 213.205.198.226
::{{mono| 2021 Minar-e-Pakistan mass sexual assault{{See also|Violence against women in Pakistan|Mass sexual assault}}}}  
::{{mono|A young female tiktoker was assaulted by a crowd of over 400 people as she and her male friend visited Minar-e-Pakistan on the country’s independence day. In a video that went viral days after August 14, Pakistan’s Independence Day, hundreds of men could be seen picking up the woman, brutally tearing off her clothes and throwing her up in the air.Amidst its struggle to eradicate violence against women, the country received severe denunciation from across the world after the incident. <ref>{{cite web|last1=Baloch|first1=Shah Meer|title=Hundreds of men in Pakistan investigated over mass sexual assault on woman|url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/19/hundreds-of-men-in-pakistan-investigated-over-sexual-assault-caught-on-tiktok|url-status=live|access-date=19 August 2021|website=Guardian|publisher=Guardian}}</ref>}}

{{Reflist-talk}}

:Deletion edit summary by IP 213.205.198.226 {{mono|information is irrelevant. Either all events should be included or none. Otherwise it is against ethics to give partial information of events shows a bias}}
::Reply to IP 213.205.198.226
::* An  incidence of which whole of Pakistan and international media took note of, [https://www.dawn.com/news/1642566/ashamed-and-pained-at-minar-i-pakistan-assault-incident-pm-imran Pakistan's Prime Minister publicly admitted]  his feelings of "..."ashamed and pained" by the assault of a female TikToker by hundreds of men near Minar-i-Pakistan..." how it can be irrelevant? 
::* As Pakistan's most prestigious monument Minar-i-Pakistan has got encyclopedic notability, 14th August being Pakistans independence got encyclopedic notability and a woman getting being sexually attacked by hundreds of people and covered by all the media has got encyclopedic notability then how it can be avoided from Wikipedia as encyclopedia?
::* Where (reliable) reference are available Wikipedians have been taking note of all notable incidences whether in Pakistan or else where. including that of [[Mass sexual assault]]s. If you have any good notable (emphasis to notable) events held @ Minar-i-Pakistan with reliable refs you can very well take note of those in the article; same time some events even if some one does not like but are notable and reliable refs are available need to be taken note of.
::* Even before coming on Wikipedia news spreads through global media so hiding or window dressing on Wikipedia neither helps any countries image nor it helps it's women. Society needs to improve, hiding assaults on women is not the solution.  
::* Last but not least Wikipedia does not support censoring of notable content having verifiable reliable  sources.       

:Let us discuss [[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias are for expanding information and knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 16:22, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
===Location===
'''Just for record''':
While one user admitting notability of incidence raised a query on my user talk page whether incidence happened @ [[Minar-e-Pakistan]] or adjacent [[Greater Iqbal Park]]? I replied as below:

Thanks for discussing. 
:[https://www.dawn.com/news/1641195 Dawn news report]: {{mono|In the first information report (FIR) registered at the Lorry Adda police station, a copy of which is available with Dawn.com, the '''complainant stated that she, along with six companions, were filming a video near Minar-e-Pakistan on Independence Day''' when around 300 to 400 people "attacked us"....She said that she and her companions made a lot of effort to escape from the crowd. Observing the situation, '''the park's security guard opened the gate to the enclosure around Minar-e-Pakistan,''' the FIR quotes her as saying..."However, the crowd was huge and people were '''scaling the enclosure''' and coming towards us..}}
:[https://www.samaa.tv/news/2021/08/minar-e-pakistan-incident-fir-registered-against-400-men-for-harassing-attacking-woman/ Samaa.tv report is more specific]: {{mono|A still from the video of the mob that attacked the woman on August 14, 2021 '''at Greater Iqbal Park and Minar-e-Pakistan.'''...The incident took place on the public holiday Saturday <u>at the Greater Iqbal Park at the Minar-e-Pakistan monument. The victim said that she was at the Minar-e-Pakistan with her friends to make a video for her YouTube channel</u> when suddenly more than 300 to 400 men attacked them. The victim said when she and her friends tried to get away from the crowd, <u>the guards at the Minar opened the gate of the fence and they went inside..The men jumped over the fence and surged towards us and started...</u>}} 
:Even Prime Minister of Pakistan Imran Khan referred incidence in [https://www.dawn.com/news/1642566/ashamed-and-pained-at-minar-i-pakistan-assault-incident-pm-imran his speech as Minar-e-Pakistan incidence].
:It is almost a two hour thing so more details will emerge as police investigation and court cases move forward.  Again Pakistan does have track record of victim blaming and also window dressing media but same time over a period of time scholarly academic books also keep coming up and visible written and street activism from women's movements and civil society. so let us see how things move forward and kind of references keep becoming available. 
:Pl. do suggest. Thanks
:[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 14:28, 16 September 2021 (UTC)






nabling and justifying  violence, specifically against women the weaponization of one's persoanal information is a regular occurrence.<ref name=":1" />  According to Dr Muhammad Moiz while Tik Tok and Instagram, as well as the increased visibility they provide, may be new addition; but women, and also those who censure them for engaging in acts of self-expression and pleasure, predate social media. Dr. Moiz and Shmyla  say  that the digital media simply imports preexisting power structures, social media becomes just a new additional tool to commit violence upon on visible bodies. <ref  {{subst:UnsignedIP|1=2400:ADC1:432:E000:96D:B4F2:B738:432E|2=05:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)}} <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Small edit requests ==

Just for tidiness, could someone please name and re-use the duplicate refs 3 and 8, both to the Baloch article in ''The Guardian''. Thanks. [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 19:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

And the "Short description" should include "in Pakistan". Thanks. [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 19:05, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

==Removed text==
CC-BY-SA declaration; I've removed the following text from the article because it is off-topic for this article. I'm leaving it here in case its removal breaks any named references. <blockquote>

Moini says when it comes to enabling and justifying  violence, specifically against women the weaponization of one's persoanal information is a regular occurrence.<ref name=":1" />  According to Dr Muhammad Moiz while Tik Tok and Instagram, as well as the increased visibility they provide, may be new addition; but women, and also those who censure them for engaging in acts of self-expression and pleasure, predate social media. Dr. Moiz and Shmyla  say  that the digital media simply imports preexisting power structures, social media becomes just a new additional tool to commit violence upon on visible bodies. <ref name=":1" /> According to Rajaa Moini  the word ' ''azad'' '  holds a unique significance in the [[Urdu language]], which inspires  reverence, pride, but in the context of women, downright hostility and revulsion.In Pakistan while an ' ''azad mulk'' ', a free country, can be cause of celebration and revelry, where as an ' ''azad aurat'' ', or a free woman, faces accusations of cultural degradation, she is considered like an active threat to the nation at the best, and a justification for brutal violence against her at worst.<ref>{{Cite web|last=Moini|first=Rajaa|date=2021-09-07|title=The questionable 'freedom' digital spaces enable for women|url=http://tribune.com.pk/story/2318994/new-world-same-violence-the-questionable-freedom-digital-spaces-enable-for-women|url-status=live|access-date=2021-09-19|website=The Express Tribune|language=en}}</ref>{{Reflist-talk}} </blockquote> '''[[User talk:Baffle gab1978|<span style="color:#191960">Baffle☿''gab''</span>]]''' 19:31, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
my name is subhan ali  and i read in  class 11 
:*'''Just for record''':As suggested @ discussion @ [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests/Archives/2021#A section copy edit request]] 
::Since I suppose mostly there would not be much doubts about notability of the incidence so I did update [[Draft:2021 Minar-e-Pakistan mass sexual assault]] so as per your suggestion  we can have a short summary and a hatnote linking to [[Draft:2021 Minar-e-Pakistan mass sexual assault]] @ the article Minar-e-Pakistan. 
::I think we would afford some space for Women related Wikipedia projects to be involved in respect to how much summary would be relevant in the article [[Minar-e-Pakistan]].province in pakistan in city karachi punjab islamabad  amnd the modt big  city lahore 

::Thanks for the support and warm regards 
000000
::[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 12:36, 20 September 2021 (UTC)




nabling and justifying  violence, specifically against women the weaponization of one's persoanal information is a regular occurrence.<ref name=":1" />  According to Dr Muhammad Moiz while Tik Tok and Instagram, as well as the increased visibility they provide, may be new addition; but women, and also those who censure them for engaging in acts of self-expression and pleasure, predate social media. Dr. Moiz and Shmyla  say  that the digital media simply imports preexisting power structures, social media becomes just a new additional tool to commit violence upon on visible bodies. <ref

== Coatrack ==

The subject of this article is "Minar-e-Pakistan". It is not all the controversy surrounding the mass sexual assaults (which are disgusting and reprehensible). Therefore controversy over [[Imran Khan]]'s remarks on the use of smartphones in this case are irrelevant to this article. They may be added to [[Imran Khan]] (if it is DUE). But really we shouldn't have more than a short paragraph mentioning the event. Current text makes this article into a [[WP:COATRACK]], violates [[WP:DUE]] and [[WP:RECENTISM]].'''[[User:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>[[User talk:Vice regent|talk]]</sub> 13:22, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

== Incident ==

Incident at Minar e Pakistan should describe in Incidents sub heading. You can create other page for complete episode of August 14 but reference of the incident should be mention in one line. You can see the example at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Square#Incidents. -[[User:امین اکبر|Ameen Akbar]] ([[User talk:امین اکبر|talk]]) 19:13, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
:{{re|امین اکبر}} I agree. Maybe we can move most of it to [[Draft:2021 Minar-e-Pakistan mass sexual assault]] for now.'''[[User:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>[[User talk:Vice regent|talk]]</sub> 00:47, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

*'''Comment''': Expecting reasonable effort towards at least reasonable participation of Women users in women related discussions and not to hurry up discussion closures til then. 
:** [[Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women]]
:** Demand women's participation in decision-making at all levels
:** Equality of women and men under the law; protection of women and girls through the rule of law
:** Recognition of the fact that distinct experiences and burdens of women and girls come from systemic discrimination
:** Ensure that women's experiences, needs and perspectives are incorporated into the ...  social decisions.
:Thanks 
:[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 06:13, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
::A merge can always be undone if there are substantial objections later on.'''[[User:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>[[User talk:Vice regent|talk]]</sub> 04:34, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
===Coverage of Notable crimes at notable monuments/ public locations=== 
* Following is just for reference, information and knowledge which might help to decide how much relevant 'Notable crimes at notable monuments/ public locations in related Wikipedia articles are relevant?:
@ [[Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 September 20#Notable crimes at notable monuments/ public locations|WP:Reference desk Humanities]] I had requested information on instances of coverage of 'Notable crimes at notable monuments/ public locations in related Wikipedia articles.

* I myself added instance from 1960s @ [[Rabindra Sarobar Stadium#En masse public molestation and sexual violence against women|Rabindra Sarobar Stadium]]

[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 08:34, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Other information received in above discussion: 

* [[2021 United States Capitol attack]]
* [[Brighton hotel bombing]]  
* [[Hyde Park and Regent's Park bombings]]
* [[1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre]]
* [[Dakota Building]] mentions the [[murder of John Lennon]]
* [[Murder in the Cathedral]]
* [[2017 Las Vegas shooting]] from the Mandalay Hotel, the 1966 [[University of Texas tower shooting]]
* Famous [[Art theft]]s from museums: [[Vincenzo Peruggia|Louvre]], [[The_Scream#Thefts|Munch Museum]] and [[Vandalism of art|art vandalism]]s at museums and statues: [[Hans-Joachim Bohlmann|Rijksmuseum]]. [[The_Little_Mermaid_(statue)#Vandalism|Little Mermaid]]
* [https://www.ft.com/content/82fffcc8-3631-48dc-829d-44f237549a59 Afghanistan libraries, archives & Museum] 

* Coming back to gender based violence [[Taharrush]] @ [[Tahrir Square]]

===One opinion===  
I was recently confronted with one opinion piece (It is different than my own point of view) at one discussion page.:
:It's a much large paragraph so shortened as much possible and changed to address technicalities: {{mono|"...''' Is Verifiability  sufficient for inclusion?''' The problem statement is <u>what objective criteria in term of sources and beyond verifiability can be used to establish relevance.</u> Would logical relevance  be way too inclusive? For example presume One out of five women are victim of intimate partner violence in France is certainly logically relevant to the subject of France and whatever verifiable figures in official statistics.... The problem is that, based on logical relevance, the entire subject of intimate partner violence should be covered in details in the France  article. Where should Wikipedia article stop, assuming that Wikipedians start at all?... This is a very simple question that one asks here. .."}} ( Since discussion at other forum is not closed Ref not given to avoid charges of 'forum shopping') 

The above is  different than my own point of view but mentioning here for benefit of other users to take rational call on the basis what they think. The above para is changed a bit to address technicalities maintaining essence of the argument in midst of ongoing discussion.

[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 08:33, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

:An art theft is directly related to the location (a museum), so is not a comparable situation. A terrorist attack which is aimed at a certain location isn't comparable as well. When the location of an incident is not really of importance to the incident, the best solution is to mention the incident at the location page, and to have a separate page for the incident (if it is notable of course, which doesn't seem an issue here). [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 09:37, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' (''It's difficult to know where to put a comment as the structure above is fairly complicated.'') : I agree with the original poster that the current section [[Minar-e-Pakistan#2021_mass_sexual_assault]] is inappropriately long and detailed for an article about the site where the assault took place. [[Draft:2021 Minar-e-Pakistan mass sexual assault]] looks good, and a brief mention of the assault, with a source and a link, as is done at [[Times_Square#Incidents]], would be just right. [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 09:48, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. I agree with PamD. [[User:Innisfree987|Innisfree987]] ([[User talk:Innisfree987|talk]]) 10:38, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' A question related to encyclopedic philosophy.
::While in Wikipedia we consider notability of title preferably be of permanent/ long duration nature and I agree with that. But relevance of content in various sections may have a time value changing as per audience interest? Like in case of USA when voting rights for women were being discussed those generation, later as waves of feminism came audience of those generation would have more interest in contemporary issues. Similarly audience  of Article Minar e Pakistan would be interested in knowing more within the article too about related contemporary incidence a little more than just a briefest information. 
::[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 14:08, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
:::The entire debate and media reaction surrounding the sexual assaults has nothing to do with Minar-e-Pakistan itself. The only thing that is related to the structure is that the sexual assault that happened there and it can be covered in just a sentence or two. The details of Pakistani's society's reaction to sexual assault are probably more relevant at [[Violence against women in Pakistan]] (where they should still nonetheless be covered in a [[WP:DUE]] manner).'''[[User:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>[[User talk:Vice regent|talk]]</sub> 14:59, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
{{Outdent|4}}
::Readers interested in in-depth coverage can consult the link to the content [[WP:FORK]], for which there appears to be a consensus here. [[User:Innisfree987|Innisfree987]] ([[User talk:Innisfree987|talk]]) 22:53, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
:::Thanks for suggestion, this technicality has been addressed now. Let us move on to main question of encyclopedic merit, <u>what objective criteria in term of sources and beyond verifiability can be used to establish relevance?</u> <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User: Bookku| Bookku]] ([[User talk: Bookku#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ Bookku|contribs]]) 03:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)</span>
::::No thanks, we have resolved the content question for this entry. Further questions should be addressed to relevant policy pages or the [[WP:Village Pump]], so as not to [[WP:BLUDGEON]] this entry’s talk page. [[User:Innisfree987|Innisfree987]] ([[User talk:Innisfree987|talk]]) 03:20, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

:{{Outdent|1|reverse=yes}}
::<u>The objective criteria to establish relevance</u> which I would attempt to prove across articles in due course, may be with some amendments as discussions move on. I am using examples of instances other than crime against women also, to bring measure of objectivity.
::'''Brief''': 
:: 1) Objective of fulfilling curiosity, 2)Measure of 'generational time value', 3) Scale of normality, 4) Scale of severity in case of incidences, 5) Boasting about fundamentals Vs. unexpected contrast, 6)Measure of Sanctity and breach there of, 7) <u> Balance of criticism and answers to the criticism</u> 
::'''Detail explanation with examples''': 
::1) Other than collation of information and knowledge, encyclopedias serve <u>objective of fulfilling curiosity</u> where information/ knowledge is available.{{mono|Serves indirect but substantial purpose of 'do you know?'}}
::2) Measure of 'curiosity' brings in <u> measure of 'generational time value' </u>  
:: ''Example'': Reference to 'Jury system' is relevant and important to the article on U.S. justice system, since the system is still practiced. In south Asia in colonial times jury system was there which has been discontinued. Encyclopedic notability for historic usage of jury system in colonial times still remains in separate encyclopedic article. But present generations will be less curious about historic jury system in South Asia so as generation changes relevance reduces one can relegate information to secondary encyclopedic article. <u>But where curiosity is existent relevance remains.</u>  
::3) <u>Scale of normality</u> : Encyclopedic articles should answer what is..<u> too normal, normal, abnormal and too abnormal.</u>  
::''Example'': A functioning democratic house of senate/ congress/ parliament member behave peacefully or not so peacefully can have a mention. In some parliaments houses members are reported tearing documents in some even throwing of chairs takes place, in some cases Autocrats like Hitler, Lenin take control of those houses some time, supporters behave as in case of Capitol Hill to hold the house hostage, in some cases terrorists attacked parliament houses as in case of Indian Parliament.             
::4) <u> Scale of severity in case of incidences.</u> An incidence  of pick pocketing or stalking is too less severe to be considered of encyclopedic relevance. But groping mentioned in [[Mosque Me Too]] or sexual abuses whenever happen in precincts of Churches, Mosques, Temples and Madrasa or Schools those are considered serious and gain encyclopedic relevance. It was 9/11 severity brings relevance of attack on those towers articles.
::5)<u> Boasting about fundamentals Vs. unexpected contrast</u>
::''Example 1'' A theft by professional thief presents less contrast, A theft by notables eg. corruption at higher level than that of lower level presents more of unexpected contrast so that brings relevance. 
::''Example 2'' Ogling by Trump and Ogling by Obama both would count as examples of differing encyclopedic relevance in article about Ogling being contrast to expected behavior of American president. But it may be considered less severe to mention in the article about American presidents. Whether it is Bill Clinton or numerous sexual escapades high UK officials even consensual ones are considered unexpected hence bring in a measure of encyclopedic relevance in related articles. In Las Vegas ordinary fellow going to striptease game club is just normal will have lesser relevance to encyclopedic article but a Prince of UK or Thailand bring in much more relevance since a contrast to expectation is being presented. 
::''Example 3'': A naturist woman putting down clothes for recreation , a religious nudity in certain religion are too common and expected normal behaviours at those locations their encyclopedic relevance will be on account of normal behaviour. But a woman uses nudity as measure of protest gets relevance. or instances of forced nudity bring different relevance.
::''Example 4'':Violence by drug dealer gangs presents less contrast to the expectation. Violence tactics by any Buddhists in Sri lanka, Myanmar brings encyclopedic relevance since being unexpected. Similarly other religion proclaims itself peaceful but existent violence or terrorism is contrast of claim or boasting that religions are peaceful   brings relevance.
::6)<U> Sanctity and breach there of</u>
::''Example'': In Pakistan later generation leadership of Muslim league made political sloganeering at  [[Mazar-e-Quaid|Mausoleum of Jinnah]]. They thought that is their democratic expression but other side of spectrum thought that as undermining sanctity of Mausoleum  of founder of a nation and the controversy brings encyclopedic relevance in the article [[Mazar-e-Quaid|Mausoleum of Jinnah]]. Prayer houses whether in Mecca or in Istanbul they are associated with some value of sanctity and their historic or modern time, the instances of seizures bring in encyclopedic relevance in the concerned encyclopedic articles. 
::Sexual misconduct even in ordinary school premises is matter of concern and may be of encyclopedic relevance on case to case basis but certain institutions and monuments claim more sanctity there instances of breach of sanctity including majior sexual misconduct become encyclopedic point of view more relevant.
::7) <u> Balance of criticism and answers to the criticism</u> 
:: I hope above points help discussion on this point
::Thnaks
::[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 05:55, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
:::But this is not in any way about the criticism of Minar-e-Pakistan itself. Its a criticism of Pakistani society's attitude towards women.'''[[User:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>[[User talk:Vice regent|talk]]</sub> 16:02, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
::Actually my above post is more than detail enough. IMHO relevance come from sanctity of Minar e Pakistan and breach of it's sanctity by an unexpected event, and reader encyclopedic curiosity too is related. If you have a nuanced view , now deleted subsection paragraph consisted criticism of victim and media reports and again balance of that criticism. And I am not in hurry to prove the point in this article itself. We will discuss these points in various relevance related articles in due course of time.  
::As of now let us take a break from this discussion. At least I am taking one. Thanks 
::[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 16:48, 10 December 2021 (UTC)         


{{ping|Bookku}} you have now for nearly four months and across multiple sections posted again and again, with often very hard to understand posts, about this: no one agrees with you, the situation on this article is basically resolved, and it would be best if you dropped it, or made at worst concise, to the point, concrete proposals for improvements. A rambling post with 7 examples of, well, ''something'' but without an actual proposal about this article doesn't help and is not what an article talk page is intended for. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 16:27, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

==How do we verify this Dawn news paper ref ==

Greetings,

Recent Revert by {{U|Morneo06}} of  IP's good faith edit is valid in it's place but the ip too seem to have a point. It seems ip should have used tagged the sentence for verification failed.

Sentence in the article like '{{mono|Polished white marble used for the fourth and final platform depicts the success of the Pakistan Movement}}' shall need verification of reference cited 

But @ the article [[Minar-e-Pakistan]]   presently numbered 7th ref. As of now it reads as below 
:'Amna Jamal (2002) The Pakistan Day memorial. Dawn. 23 March. Retrieved 12 February 2008'

There is no URL link in the ref. We can guess it is probably 2002, March 23 article. Google and simple search @ archive did not give expected result. I do not see any reason to doubt good faith of who so ever added ref. But some of the   content seem to need verification. Any ways to retrieve old article?

I have requested for help @ [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request]] but I am not sure that ref would be easily retrievable. Editors need to look for alternate references

[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 04:01, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

:I found the following reference that verifies the 'Polished white marble used for the fourth and final platform depicts the success of the Pakistan Movement' point:
:https://tribune.com.pk/story/1215587/years-construction-minar-e-pakistan-gets-major-facelift [[User:Toofllab|Toofllab]] ([[User talk:Toofllab|talk]]) 09:24, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, then replace the reference with this one since this is verifiable.

[[User:Bookku|&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39;]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 09:48, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

:Done [[User:Toofllab|Toofllab]] ([[User talk:Toofllab|talk]]) 14:56, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

{{Resolved}}

== closed to public ==

No visitors are allowed near minar-e-pakistan anymore. There is a barbed wire fence surrounding the srructure.

I came to the article to see if there was any information about its closing, but couldn't find any. [[User:Elitehobo|Elitehobo]] ([[User talk:Elitehobo|talk]]) 05:23, 14 February 2025 (UTC)