View source for Talk:Milli Vanilli

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==Hey Arnold Parody Episode==
I remember seeing an episode of the Nickelodeon show Hey Arnold! where Phoebe took interest in a singer who looks a lot like MV's members, but it turned out he was lip synching. 
[[Special:Contributions/99.236.170.52|99.236.170.52]] ([[User talk:99.236.170.52|talk]]) 23:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:I remember this also. Pre-Teen Scream, with imposter Ronnie Matthews. He was just a model and stage performer. He spoke terrible English and misunderstood Phoebe. "I really thought you were more than just a pretty face." Ronnie: "Why, Thank You! I take good care of my face." LOL. [[User:In-Correct|In-Correct]] ([[User talk:In-Correct|talk]]) 05:26, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

== Arthur ==

The Arthur Show also had a parody. Called "BINKY", performed by [[Varttina]].

== Family Guy Cameo ==

I think I remember Vanilli being in an episode. I think someone needs to clarify this.

I remember Milli: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG6o5AfncaA

== Turkish translation? ==
I have done a little research and it seems that Milli Vanilli does NOT mean "positive energy" in Turkish.

[http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.turkish/browse_thread/thread/db4e4dd7abff0a31/526377a3d30d619d?_done=%2Fgroup%2Fsoc.culture.turkish%2Fthreads%3Fstart%3D30%26order%3Drecent%26&_doneTitle=Back&&d#526377a3d30d619d see here]

or just google groups search for MV in soc.culture.turkish

[[User:Ensiform|Ensiform]] 14:08, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

:Well, could it just be that the spelling is off? [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 19:47, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:I'm Turk. Well if we literaly translate it, it becomes: "National vanillated" or "our vanilla" - which says nothing, very stupid :p But it's definitely not 'positive energy', that's ABSOLUTELY wrong and even more stupid :D<small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/213.224.34.49|213.224.34.49]] ([[User talk:213.224.34.49|talk]]) 03:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

== I too have looked this up, and yeah...it doesn't mean positive energy. I'm taking it out. [[User:Richard Corey|Richard Corey]] 17:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

== Did you know that Girl You Know It's True is NOT original? ==

This might give a nice spice on the article. :-)
The song originates indeed from another group called NUMARX (gladly I have those myself, by far not that easy to get these days), published in 1987 and covered by Mr Farian in 1988.
[[User:80.129.77.17|80.129.77.17]] 03:26, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
-andy

==Unclear sentence==
:"They are infamous for being the only recording act to have their Grammy Award stripped from them in 1990 after it was revealed that they had not been involved in the creation of their breakthrough album, Girl You Know It's True, and instead had simply appeared on the album cover, and had lip-synched to pre-recorded studio singers in music videos and in concert."
Now I don't know anything about the Grammy Awards or this group, however, this sentence needs to be rewritten in a clearer fashion by someone who knows the story.  Right now it is unclear where the 'famous' part of the sentence stops.  Are they the only recording act to have a Grammy stripped from them?  Or the only recording act to have a Grammy stripped from them in 1990? Or..?? -[[User:SCEhardt|<span style="color:blue;">SCEhard</span>]][[User talk:SCEhardt|<b style="color:#3D9140;">T</b>]] 05:41, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
::The opening paragraph has been retooled for clarity and style. - [[User:Chadbryant|Chadbryant]] 11:48, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

== Work needed ==
I don't have time right now, but someone needs to go through this article and fix a few things (such as headings) to conform with style guidelines & NPOV (particularly the section entitled "Tragic Epilogue") [[User:Stellertony|Stellertony the Bookcrosser]] 09:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

:Did that.  Article should be much cleaner now.--[[User:Mitsukai|<b style="color:#4b0082;">み使い</b>]] '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 16:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added a whole lotta more stuff about the various refund lawsuits that emerged after the ruse was uncovered. However, i've just removed this chunk:
<blockquote>
At any given time, several dozen copies of the American CDs are available on [[eBay]], and they usually sell for more than one would make by accepting the refund offer.

There are rumors to the effect that it is legally impossible for Arista to reissue Milli Vanilli CDs in the USA.  Supposedly one out-of-court settlement (with the original singers) forbids the company from selling discs with Rob & Fab's image on the packaging, while another settlement (with Rob & Fab themselves) forbids the company from selling discs '''without''' their image.  The discs have been re-released outside the USA, with the duo's picture on them.
</blockquote>

Can anyone verify '''any''' of this this? I mainly see two problems with the deleted text. 1) I can't see how ''Girl You Know it's True'' (GYKIT) could be reissued if the original tapes have been deleted.  2) The deadline for refunds on GYKIT and related Milli Vanilli stuff expired over 12 years ago. In saying this, why would want to make an eBay profit on a refund which can no longer be claimed? In short, the deleted text defies logic. - Thanks, ''[[User:Hoshie|Hos]]'''''[[User_talk:Hoshie|hie]]''' |  08:17, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

:Plus the second claim about the two conflicting settlements is just too ironic to be true. Real life doesn't operate like that at all. Well deleted, says I. --[[User:Agamemnon2|Agamemnon2]] 07:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

::Haha, then you don't know much about real life...

I have personally never heard of such lawsuits and I was one of the original singers. If what is stated above were true, the discs would not have been re-released anywhere. 'Out of court' means there was a motion filed and a case number issued somewhere in the US or Germany. In the US that information becomes public domain unless there is a gag order or a sealed decision. Even though, the case number would be available. [[User:Jroccolv|Jroccolv]] ([[User talk:Jroccolv|talk]]) 21:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)Jodie Rocco[[User:Jroccolv|Jroccolv]] ([[User talk:Jroccolv|talk]]) 21:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)<ref>Jodie Rocco</ref>

{{reflist-talk}}

== ROB & FAB "WE CAN GET IT ON" Music Video ==

Can anyone tell if there is a videoclip made for the Rob & Fab's single "We Can Get It On";  I could swear that I've seen it during that time. But I haven't found any reference to it in the article. Maybe I had mixed memories, LOL.

:You may mean the tape of them performing the song on The Arsenio Hall Show, featured in their Behind the Music episode. But if you're talking about a music video for the actual song, I doubt it. The production company (Joss Entertainment} didn't even promote Rob & Fab's album that well, I doubt they would have spent the money to make a music video. --[[User:Lovelinelistener|Lovelinelistener]] 01:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Mmm... no. The Rob & Fab video for ''We Can Get It On'' can be watched on the VH1 Behind the Music, here's a link for fragments of the video (the b&w ones, around 3:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1HVe_IB9GM ), does anyone around here have it recorded?

== A bit _too_ gentle ==
The intro currently says this:
: Like many manufactured groups of the era, such as C&C Music Factory, none of the live performances were actually sung, because the vocals were provided by studio artists. Due to confusion resulting from this, they had their Grammy award for Best New Artist 1990 revoked.
This is about the gentlest description of the Milli Vanilli case I've ever heard.  "Confusion"?  Didn't they actually claim they were singing until the incident in question?

And the statement in the text -- that their live performances were recordings by studio artists -- would only make sense if their non-live recordings were also by studio artists (if they could sing in studio but not live, why not just play their own studio recordings?).  So the article is really stating that they never sang at all, which it should do more directly. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 00:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed.  Exactly what I was thinking. [[User:SandwichHat|SandwichHat]] 04:04, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I also agree. Although lip-synching in concert was certainly controversial, the primary scandal was the fact that they didn't even sing on their own records. I changed the intro to reflect this. Also, I moved some of the Frank Farian stuff to his own article and deleted non-NPOV items about "memorable closure" and enduring influence on future musical trends. [[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 17:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

There's got to be more story in why Milli Vanilli got shafted the way they did, since the supposed offences are normal procedure on the pop music industry.  I doubt there is anyone who doesn't understand that performances at the Grammys show are lip synched.  Nor is it likely that people who go to see groups of this type believe they are actually singing during any live appearance; aside from anything else, the sound quality would be awful if a performer actually sang with a contact mike while dancing on stage.  Lip synching didn't bother Michael Jackson or Madonna fans.  If there's an issue at all, it's that the front men didn't appear on the recorded work credited to them, but that's not unusual in pop music either.  Free Milli Vanilli!  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.25.16.135|75.25.16.135]] ([[User talk:75.25.16.135|talk]]) 18:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::It's mostly a culture clash: in Germany lip syncing is pretty common, and so no one was fazed by this "scandal".  (People aren't expected to be good singers, dancers, composers, and good looking all at the same time.)  That is why the controversy can justifiably be called a misunderstanding. --[[Special:Contributions/24.85.82.38|24.85.82.38]] ([[User talk:24.85.82.38|talk]]) 05:09, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Re: "''the supposed offences are normal procedure on the pop music industry''":

Not so sure about that, but "normal procedure" varies over time, and we're discussing a group from the past. In the '60's and beyond it was apparently common for members of rock groups to be sometimes replaced furtively by studio musicians. I've read that this happened with the Beach Boys and Herman's Hermits. The lead singer of the Grass Roots personally told me that this happened with his group, and a bass player for the Box Tops told me he was never allowed to perform on records (he also told me he got the job because his father had been a record executive). Conversely, rock groups supposedly performing on television variety shows in the sixties and beyond often only pretended to play, but the had played on the recordings. In the case of Milli Vanilli, however, we have people pretending to sing lead who never played or sang either in the studio or live. That's rather a different matter. Anyway, "everyone else does it too" isn't much of a defense.

Re: "''People aren't expected to be good singers, dancers, composers, and good looking all at the same time.''"

That makes no sense. If they weren't expected to be all these things, they wouldn't be pretending to be them. We'd have singers singing, dancers dancing, composers composing, and models modelling. When we have instead people faking, we have a clear demonstration that
they are indeed expected to be all these things. [[User:TheScotch|TheScotch]] ([[User talk:TheScotch|talk]]) 11:27, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

== Rob's Age ==

On Behind The Music, it said he was born in 1964. [[User:68.154.15.86|68.154.15.86]] 02:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

== September 2006 cleanup request ==

The breaking of the lip-syncing story is badly introduced and it is repeated. This is in need of reorganization. --[[User:Liberlogos|Liberlogos]] 21:34, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

== American phenomenon ==
The MV-"scandal" was largely contained to the US, Europeans were baffled by it. The fact that many pop groups are pure studio products with models chosen for looks posing on stage is well-known and not normally frowned upon on this side of the pond. See for example [[Boney M]], also a Farian product. The fact that not all of the front persons actually sang was widely published at the time they were popular, but did not hinder their success. Probably many US acts are produced the same way, but the fact is kept secret. In Europe it generally is not, and hardly anyone cares anyway. This cultural difference ought to be included in the article [[User:Anorak2|Anorak2]] 16:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

This is only partially true. There is no doubt that this was, up to the time of the scandal, a not uncommon or unacceptable practice. Boney M, Black Box, and C&C Music Factory (at least the single "Gonna Make You Sweat") were good examples, but even these are very different cases so here's some facts:
- In the case of Boney M, Williams and Farrell were left off the final mixes though did sing in the studio and they did sing live in concert. Which is in stark contrast to Milli Vanilli, who (despite the fact that the two were able to sing, at least Fabrice Morvan was and still is) not only didn't contribute anything to the records, but also didn't sing in concert either.

- Black Box was similar to Milli Vanilli in this regard, in that Katrin Quinol lip-synced to Martha Wash's voice. However, C&C Music Factory only did so for that one song with Zelma Davis actually singing on all other tracks on the album. Also note that Wash and Davis did sing together in a later single. Both artists were up for the Grammy the year after the MV scandal, but didn't win because the committee had feared a backlash

- even some more respected artists may not have been honest as to who actually performed on certain recordings, but this is likely not the place to delve into this.

- In any case, the MV scandal came about because of the following things:
1.Unlike some of the other acts mentioned, they were actually hugely successful in the US market, and once you are successful there you should be aware of the consequences if you aren't totally honest.
2.The fact they they were the most successful/visible of such dance/pop acts. (see above)
3.More likely, the fact they allowed their success to inflate their egos at the time, contributed to their undoing- and also made them easy targets for the knockers (hence Arsenio Hall and In Living Color frequently ridiculed them, both before and after the scandal). Remember too that Pilatus was also ridiculed for statements comparing himself and Milli Vanilli to various legends of music.

- And lastly, what the scandal did do was force the music industry to curb these practices, i.e. everyone credited must actually perform.
[[User:Everton4Life|Everton4Life]] 14:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Aye.  and personally, I object to seeing Rob and Fab listed as '''members.'''  In a direct sense they were actually '''actors,''' dubbing for this group's '''real''' members, Johnny Davis, Brad Howell and Charles Shaw.  I have edited the members section to reflect that fact.

Once more, I think it's about time the NARAS give these 3 guys their due, and give them the Grammy Awards they took from Rob and Fab in 1990 for Best New Artist.  Sure, the people bought 8 million albums under the illusion of thinking that it was those 2 who sang everything on the album; but should the real members be penalized for the deception that Frank Farian created, because he thought it would sell the original trio who sang and performed these tunes?  I think absolutely not! '''-CookyMonzta (Dec. 27, 12:14 A.M. E.S.T.)'''

-- That's NOT fair. Rob & Fab WERE Milli Vanilli, they were everything in the group but the vocals performances. The were not just actors, the were dancers and the ones who threw Milli Vanilli to the estrathosphere. In the Mtv era vocals are not that important. Anyone could sing Girl You Know It's True, but no one could've make it look better than this two.

::::Except for those of us who did not have MTV (which in the late 80s was a good 3/4ths of America).  For us Milli Vanilli was purely & only the sound we heard coming from our radios.  The "actors" who danced on stage were not even known to me.  I was just enjoying the sound.  

::::And yes, I agree the original vocalists deserve some kind of recognition, even if it's just a "lead vocals" award for the songs they created.  ----  [[User:Theaveng|Theaveng]] ([[User talk:Theaveng|talk]]) 14:50, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Looks to me like a load of revisionist bs. They were frauds. They represented themselves as the singers everywhere, not just on stage.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.155.81.74|98.155.81.74]] ([[User talk:98.155.81.74|talk]]) 05:34, 22 October 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Empire Bizarre? ==

Although it has been removed from the singles list, it did once say that the single "Dansez" which, after research found that Empire Bizarre did make, why was it listed here? Was it a previous incarnation of MV?
No...it was produced by Ralph Siegel....Empire Bizarre is to find on You Tube..  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Musicworldvision|Musicworldvision]] ([[User talk:Musicworldvision#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Musicworldvision|contribs]]) 22:44, 4 December 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Chris Henly is gay ==

I have just deleted all references to the above comment. I dont know who made this but it was placed x7 in the article. 
keep an eye on it <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Boils|Boils]] ([[User talk:Boils|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Boils|contribs]]) 12:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

:that is just plain vandalism. [[User:Karrmann|Karrmann]] 14:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Just reverted because of more of the same[[Special:Contributions/213.38.11.86|213.38.11.86]] ([[User talk:213.38.11.86|talk]]) 10:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Funky see funky doo (The Simpsons) ==

Someone should add this reference to the "Popular Culture" section. They were the band that hit #1 after "We're Sending our Love Down the Well" on the episode where Bart get's stuck down the well. One of the characters looks like Milli Vanilli and the other looks like Kid from House Party

== Excessive Vandalism -> Lock page to anonymous users? ==

I found this page a while ago, full of this crap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Milli_Vanilli&oldid=108897374

Upon viewing the history, it seems this page *frequently* experiences vandalism. I suggest edit rights for this page be restricted to registered users, to try and keep the page under control.

[[User:Coviti|Coviti]] 20:30, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

== trivia section ==
it seems really unnecessary and pointless to list every mention of MV from every lame sitcom...is Paris Hilton listed for every time a TV show made a jab at her?  I wonder if only unique or distinct instances (such as the gum commercial) should be listed...[[User:Bawtyshouse|Bawtyshouse]] 02:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

== Arsenio Hall ==
During Arsenio Hall's old show, after the lip-syncing scandal broke, Hall made the group the butt of a series of jokes, with the usual punchline being "Vanilli." This could be added to the article somewhere, maybe in the "In Popular Culture" section. [[User:Misterdoe|Misterdoe]] 16:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

== Sister Kate ==
Appeared in Sister Kate, an American situation comedy debuting on the NBC television network in 1989 and lasting one season, and performed Blame It on the Rain. The show featured early work by Jason Priestley.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.135.214.2|67.135.214.2]] ([[User talk:67.135.214.2|talk]]) 17:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Image copyright problem with Image:Fabrice.jpg==
The image [[:Image:Fabrice.jpg]] is used in this article under a claim of [[WP:NFC|fair use]], but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the [[WP:NFCC|requirements for such images]] when used here.  In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an [[Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline|explanation]] linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page.  Please check

:* That there is a [[Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline|non-free use rationale]] on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.
<!-- Additional 10c list header goes here -->

This is an automated notice by [[User:FairuseBot|FairuseBot]]. For assistance on the image use policy, see [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]]. --02:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

== Brüno ==

Is there any reason to be concerned that vandalism may come in due to Milli Vanilli's prominent and sexually explicit reference in Sascha Baron Cohen's new film? [[User:Zazaban|Zazaban]] ([[User talk:Zazaban|talk]]) 21:05, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
:Apparently not. - 23:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

: Yup, nothing so far. I think the reference simply went unnoticed, probably because most Bruno fans have no idea who Milli Vanilli were. Even if some of them do know them, I doubt they remember the controversy surrounding the group, or the fact that 18 years ago their songs were declared uncool. [[Special:Contributions/81.101.19.90|81.101.19.90]] ([[User talk:81.101.19.90|talk]]) 23:08, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
== Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011 ==
Since [[Allmusic]] have changed the syntax of their [[URL]]s, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Tl|Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:
* http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=B52x7gjwrj6ix
--[[User:CactusBot|CactusBot]] ([[User talk:CactusBot|talk]]) 10:52, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

==Further Developments -> The Adventures of Super Mario Bros 3==

It should be noted that the episode first aired with the songs intact, but the removal of the songs did take place immediately after, even before the series went into syndication [[User:LReyome254|LReyome254]] ([[User talk:LReyome254|talk]]) 20:09, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
:Without [[WP:RS|sourcing]] this information isn't appropriate for inclusion in any case per [[WP:VERIFY]]. [[User:Doniago|Doniago]] ([[User talk:Doniago|talk]]) 14:58, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

== Why not list every member? ==

The infobox only has two past members, the performers but not the actual singers. I think the singers need to be included.

[[User:In-Correct|In-Correct]] ([[User talk:In-Correct|talk]]) 05:18, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

== Unsourced Material ==

Article has been tagged for needing citations since 2011. Feel free to reincorporate the below material with appropriate references. [[User:Doniago|DonIago]] ([[User talk:Doniago|talk]]) 13:58, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


{| <!-- Template:Collapse --> class="collapsible collapsed" style="width:100%;font-size:88%;text-align: left; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;"
|-
! style="background-color: #CFC;" | <div style="font-size:112%;">Beginnings</div>    
|-
| style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white; " |
<div style="font-size:112%;">Milli Vanilli's debut album ''[[All or Nothing (Milli Vanilli album)|All or Nothing]]'' was released in Europe in mid-1988, featuring Rob and Fab's pictures on the cover, but no mention of who actually sang the songs. The success of the record caught the attention of [[Arista Records]] who signed the duo. Arista deleted several tracks from the original album, added several new ones (including a new track written by [[Diane Warren]], "[[Blame It on the Rain]]"), remixed many of the tracks and renamed the album to ''[[Girl You Know It's True]]'' for release in the [[United States|American]] market in early 1989.

This version of the album went six times [[Music recording sales certification|platinum]] and led to the re-release of [[Girl You Know It's True (song)|the title track]], which peaked at No.2 on the Hot 100 in April of that year and was certified platinum. (The song was a cover version of a Numarx track published in 1987 on the US Bluebird label.) The U.K. release featured the original first album and the remix album together as "[[2 X 2]]". Even greater commercial success followed, as the pair's next three singles "[[Baby Don't Forget My Number]]", "[[Girl I'm Gonna Miss You]]" and "[[Blame It on the Rain]]" all reached No.1. A fifth and final single "[[All or Nothing (Milli Vanilli song)|All or Nothing]]", also made the Top 5 in the beginning of 1990 in a remixed form which sampled the "Keep On Movin'" beat from UK soul act [[Soul II Soul]]. Milli Vanilli's meteoric rise to pop music superstardom culminated with a [[Grammy Award]] for [[Best New Artist]] on February 22, 1990.</div>
|}
{| <!-- Template:Collapse --> class="collapsible collapsed" style="width:100%;font-size:88%;text-align: left; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;"
|-
! style="background-color: #CFC;" | <div style="font-size:112%;">Beginnings (added 12/15/14)</div>    
|-
| style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white; " |
<div style="font-size:112%;">When Frank Farian developed the concept of Milli Vanilli, he chose to feature vocals by [[Charles Shaw (singer)|Charles Shaw]], John Davis, Brad Howell, and twin sisters Jodie and Linda Rocco; however, he felt that those singers lacked a marketable image. He then recruited [[Rob Pilatus|Robert Pilatus]] and [[Fab Morvan|Fabrice Morvan]], two younger model/dancers he found singing in a Munich club for a rehearsal. He felt that Pilatus and Morvan could provide the marketable image that the original singers lacked. According to [[VH1]]'s ''[[Behind the Music]]'', the single "[[Girl You Know It's True (song)|Girl You Know It's True]]" was first produced by Jesse Powell and had already been completed. Farian felt that no efforts should be focused on refining his new singers' voices. Instead, they were told to lip-synch to the prerecorded music. Farian had done something similar with his earlier disco group [[Boney M]], where he recruited four members (one a male exotic dancer), two of whom didn't sing in recordings.</div>
|}

== Positive energy ==

Shouldn't the claim that the band's name comes from "positive energy" in Turkish be mentioned, even if only to refute it?  I know it's not true, of course, but it's one of the only two things that a lot of people "know" about the band (the other being the lip-synching), and from a quick search, it looks as though one of the band members may have made the claim.  --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 05:16, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
:Interesting. I was a teenager in Germany while they rose to their questionable fame, and didn't remember that part about any meaning of the name. But you're correct, here's a print source which quotes one of them: 
::''"We rented a club and on Mondays, we organized milli night for Turkish customers," he says. "In Turkish, milli means positive energy. Vanilli is just a fantasy name. We decided to put them together."'' https://books.google.de/books?id=X9QDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=milli+vanilli+positive+energy&source=bl&ots=UWtUlSXMeI&sig=oywBzEWVOMrn5M6lxgk2Duj3qzI&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CF0Q6AEwCGoVChMI8sXjvv6-xwIVhG0UCh3__A-m#v=onepage&q=milli%20vanilli%20positive%20energy&f=false
:I don't speak Turkish, but according to Google translate 'milli' means 'national', so there's that. Never heard of 'milli nights' either (despite living in a neighborhood with almost 50% migrants, the majority of them Turkish - one would expect to catch the phrase on flyers or posters eventually). Well, it makes sense as 'national night', as a club night for Turkish youth, plus some bullshit made up by Morvan about the meaning. Considering that everything was manufactured by Farian, a background story about the founding days should be taken with an extra bit of salt. As a side note, personally I always suspected that 'Vanilli' was a nod to the fashion label 'Vanilia' (their jeans were extremely popular among teenagers at the same time), but that's pure speculation from my side. Either way, yeah I think the alleged meaning can be mentioned, because it can be sourced to a straight quote from one of the 'singers'. [[User:Rh73|Rh73]] ([[User talk:Rh73|talk]]) 11:09, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
:Also, it seems this part was in the article years ago, then got removed after some discussion. What would be the best way to bring it back, if at all?[[User:Rh73|Rh73]] ([[User talk:Rh73|talk]]) 11:21, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

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==Origins of name Milli Vanilli==
Consider adding this please, "In the metric system, a Milli Vanilli is 1/1000 of a vanilli. Rob & Fab broke up the name into two words because it was easier to pronounce that way." (amiright.com). The Wikipedia article for "Milli" explains the units of measurement. [[User:Nibinaear|Nibinaear]] ([[User talk:Nibinaear|talk]]) 22:27, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
:According to Rob Pilatus's obit in  ''[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/obituary-rob-pilatus-1155008.html The Independent]'', Milli Vanilli was "named after a New York night club." --[[User:Muzilon|Muzilon]] ([[User talk:Muzilon|talk]]) 14:41, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

== "Spinning Wheel" lawsuit ==

I was surprised the article didn't mention the group being sued for (allegedly) stealing the tune of "Spinning Wheel" for "All or Nothing", so I added a sentence. Does anyone know the outcome of that lawsuit? I couldn't find anything online. --[[User:Muzilon|Muzilon]] ([[User talk:Muzilon|talk]]) 14:14, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

== Inaccuracy concerning their hair ==

In the "Beginnings, 1988-1989" section, eighth paragraph, their hair is described as "cornrow hair extensions." Milli Vanilli did not wear cornows. They just wore regular braids. Cornrows are interlocked using the hair next to the scalp so the braids create rows along the scalp, similar to French braids. It should just say "braided hair extensions." [[Special:Contributions/2603:900A:1101:85B3:195A:32CD:D3FD:8F22|2603:900A:1101:85B3:195A:32CD:D3FD:8F22]] ([[User talk:2603:900A:1101:85B3:195A:32CD:D3FD:8F22|talk]]) 04:29, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

== Unsourced opinion ==

This sentence is completely unsourced by given source and highly opinionated:

"(1) The film, without describing them as innocent, points out that a great many people knew about the deception, but the singers became the scapegoats; (2) the popular narrative was incomplete and misdirected at the two public faces of a much larger operation."

[[Special:Contributions/95.90.117.239|95.90.117.239]] ([[User talk:95.90.117.239|talk]]) 13:05, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

:{{ping|Pol098}} As the editor who added this text, I believe your thoughts would be particularly helpful here. I would note that there's a later section that seems to discuss the film in more detail; does that make this redundant or unneeded? [[User:Doniago|DonIago]] ([[User talk:Doniago|talk]]) 13:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
{{Outdent|:}}
I don't claim any expertise, and don't have an opinion about the events (I can't, I don't know enough). My intention was to summarise {{Em|a newspaper article about the film}}, not to discuss the events directly. Paragraphs of the newspaper article which, I think are adequately summarised by what I wrote are:

{{Blockquote|text=1&2: The popular narrative of Milli Vanilli – that Rob and Fab lied about their talents and misled their fans and should suffer the consequences – was swift, vindictive and enduring. And, as the documentary argues, incomplete and misdirected at the two public faces of a much larger operation.<br>
...<br>
1: The issue, as the film frames it, was not that Morvan and Pilatus had culpability, but that they shouldered the entire scandal alone. “Do they deserve to be called out on some level? Sure. But what about everybody else?” said Korem. Farian, Arista, their record executives and their management emerged largely unscathed.
<br>...<br>
2: “It’s mind-blowing to think that the media just went after us, and never went after the people pulling the reins,” said Morvan. “It’s almost as if they said, ‘Hey, listen, we can’t touch the man in black, so that energy should go toward [Rob and Fab].’”}}

I've had a quick look (no more) at the section on the film, added after my edit; it just says that "there are layers", and doesn't seem to summarise it as well as the newspaper article, the sentence discussed here could be moved into that section.

Best wishes, [[User:Pol098|Pol098]] ([[User talk:Pol098|talk]]) 14:08, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

:: The problem here is, that you summarise an opinion as if it were a matter of fact. The article contains the view of an Guardian-author on the film and on the events. So if you want to keep the sentence, there is something missing like "In the opinion of the british Guardian" or something like that. [[Special:Contributions/95.90.117.239|95.90.117.239]] ([[User talk:95.90.117.239|talk]]) 09:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

:::The opinion seems fairly universal, not an outlier; I've added another (US) reference, and plenty more can be found. Best wishes, [[User:Pol098|Pol098]] ([[User talk:Pol098|talk]]) 11:36, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
:::: Even an is still an opinion and needs to be presented according to WP guidelines. Its not the number of sources, that bugs me, the Guardian is a fairly accurate source. Its the representation here of opinion as fact, or as interpretation as fact. [[Special:Contributions/95.90.117.239|95.90.117.239]] ([[User talk:95.90.117.239|talk]]) 14:25, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

:::::"universal opinion ... needs to be presented according to WP guidelines." {{Em|Which guideline}}? I think that you should first go through all Wikipedia articles that assume the Earth to be approximately spherical and add "the opinion of many scientists is that the Earth is an oblate spheroid, while others list evidence that it is a plane.<ref>{{cite web | title=Experimental Evidence | website=FEW| url=https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Experimental+Evidence | access-date=25 October 2023}}</ref>"
{{Reflist-talk|title=}}
:::::Best wishes, [[User:Pol098|Pol098]] ([[User talk:Pol098|talk]]) 14:51, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

== The Real Milli Vanilli section opens in the middle of a paragraph  ==

I'm new here so I can't edit it myself,but it looks like the section starts "The Resulting Album..." but doesn't contain the previous sentence. I was reading up on it elsewhere and coincidentally stumbled on this Medium article [https://medium.com/@RichTVXNews/in-memoriam-john-davis-illuminating-a-genuine-milli-vanilli-vocalist-ed321dd17059]https://medium.com/@RichTVXNews/in-memoriam-john-davis-illuminating-a-genuine-milli-vanilli-vocalist-ed321dd17059


the quote seems to have been pulled from this paragraph, in the above article, or they both pulled from the same third party

'''Bold''' [[User:DaiMadAboutIt|DaiMadAboutIt]] ([[User talk:DaiMadAboutIt|talk]]) 08:27, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

:'''Bold''' [[User:DaiMadAboutIt|DaiMadAboutIt]] ([[User talk:DaiMadAboutIt|talk]]) 08:32, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
:(paragraph mentioned above, with the text that's already featured or approximated in parenthesis since I'm new here and can't figure out how to make things bold or underlined)
:The Moment of Truth [[User:DaiMadAboutIt|DaiMadAboutIt]] ([[User talk:DaiMadAboutIt|talk]]) 08:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
::(The resultant album, renamed “The Moment of Truth,” featured Davis and Brad Howell, emerging as the bona fide vocalists constituting the Real Milli Vanilli. This singular album, the sole collaborative effort between Davis and Howell, failed to secure release in the United States. Nevertheless, it ascended to prominence within Germany’s Top 20 albums.) [[User:DaiMadAboutIt|DaiMadAboutIt]] ([[User talk:DaiMadAboutIt|talk]]) 08:39, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
::source quotation, I'm apparently a failure at this, but I hope someone can understand what I'm saying and make the necessary edits! 
::[https://medium.com/@RichTVXNews/in-memoriam-john-davis-illuminating-a-genuine-milli-vanilli-vocalist-ed321dd17059 The Moment of Truth  Subsequent to the revelation exposing the non-authentic vocal contributions of Morvan and Pilatus to the Milli Vanilli project, Frank Farian undertook a reconfiguration of the originally planned album for the initial duo. The resultant album, renamed “The Moment of Truth,” featured Davis and Brad Howell, emerging as the bona fide vocalists constituting the Real Milli Vanilli. This singular album, the sole collaborative effort between Davis and Howell, failed to secure release in the United States. Nevertheless, it ascended to prominence within Germany’s Top 20 albums.] [[User:DaiMadAboutIt|DaiMadAboutIt]] ([[User talk:DaiMadAboutIt|talk]]) 08:43, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

== The real Milli vanilli ==

Thank you for accepting my edit! [[User:DaiMadAboutIt|DaiMadAboutIt]] ([[User talk:DaiMadAboutIt|talk]]) 16:35, 16 March 2024 (UTC)