View source for Talk:Marcel Lefebvre

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== Conclave votes for Archb Lefebvre ==

I added the page # to the book, The Horn of the Unicorn, for the statement that there were "three" or "several" votes for Archbishop Lefebvre in the 1978 Papal conclave.  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/73.32.102.228|73.32.102.228]] ([[User talk:73.32.102.228|talk]]) 11:12, 4 March 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Thank you. I have deleted this as rumor and speculation. [[User:Elizium23|Elizium23]] ([[User talk:Elizium23|talk]]) 17:17, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
Conclave votes are strictly confidential though...[[Special:Contributions/74.90.110.7|74.90.110.7]] ([[User talk:74.90.110.7|talk]]) 04:08, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

==Assessment comment==
{{Substituted comment|length=301|lastedit=20061117112509|comment=Rated this as a GA article because it has achieved GA criteria.  High priority as (IMO) an important player in the Catholic Church in the twentieth century, whose movement, the [[Society of Saint Pius X]] is hitting the news quite frequently. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] 11:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)}}
Substituted at 23:04, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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== Background section ==

"Lefebvre belonged to an identifiable strand of right-wing political and religious opinion in French society that originated among the defeated royalists after the 1789 French Revolution." unsourced and tendentious.  Why not "identify" this "identifiable" strand?  --[[User:Richardson mcphillips|Richardson mcphillips]] ([[User talk:Richardson mcphillips|talk]]) 23:56, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


Yes.   This is the very line I have called into question as well.   "Right" and "left" are political categories and are not applicable when speaking of Archbishop Lefebvre.    The terms "orthodox" and "heterodox" should be used instead and care should be given to present information objectively, rather than attempting to politicize the page. 

[[Special:Contributions/75.170.42.147|75.170.42.147]] ([[User talk:75.170.42.147|talk]]) 17:13, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
:I disagree. Give us [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] that "right" and "left" never pertain to religion and always pertain to politics. And your edits include more than changing those terms; you removed properly sourced and relevant information. In any event, two editors have reverted you. You are required to get [[WP:CON|consensus]] instead of [[WP:WE|edit warring]]. [[User:Sundayclose|Sundayclose]] ([[User talk:Sundayclose|talk]]) 17:37, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

== Suspension of the excommunication ==

I am sorry for such a simple question. But is true or not that Mgr Lefebvre is still excommunicated from a juridical poitn of view? Has he never declared a Servant of God in any diocese, somewhere located into the Roman Catholic Church? It seems not to be true.

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cbishops/documents/rc_con_cbishops_doc_20090121_remissione-scomunica_it.html
The previous link gives the decree of Ratzinger in which the excommunication was annulled in favour to the four bishops consacrated by hand of Mgr Lefebvre.

But their main consecrator isn't mentioned at all. Does someone know if Ratzinger or Bergoglio had subsequently decided to annull the excommunication of Mgr Lefebvre? Or if one of the bishops consecrated by Lefebvre has asked to restore his honour and surname? 
I apologize for the imperfect English, but the matter doesn't deserve non singular particular attention, even idiomatic, except for what concerns thr historical truth. Thanks in advance for any eventual help.[[User:Theologian81sp|Theologian81sp]] ([[User talk:Theologian81sp|talk]]) 22:39, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
:{{ping|Theologian81sp}} From what I get, his and de Castro Mayer's excommunications were never lifted. One things I am sure, is that Lefebvre was never declared a servant of God; although, maybe some SSPX members hold him as such. [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 13:27, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

It is a problem that the Code of Canon Law cited is the 1983 Code, when the excommunication occurred in 1975. Here is the old Code of Canon law in effect at the time: 

[http://www.intratext.com/IXT/LAT0813/_P8L.HTM Can. 2370]. Episcopus aliquem consecrans in Episcopum, Episcopi vel, loco Episcoporum, presbyteri assistentes, et qui consecrationem recipit sine apostolico mandato contra praescriptum can. 953, ipso iure suspensi sunt, donec Sedes Apostolica eos dispensaverit.

Can. 2370. A Bishop consecrating anyone as a Bishop, the assisting Bishops or, in place of bishops, [the assisting] priests, and whoever receives the consecration, without an apostolic mandate, contrary to the prescription of can. 953, have been suspended by the law itself, until the Apostolic See will have dispensed them.

[http://www.intratext.com/IXT/LAT0813/_P34.HTM#1H Can. 953]. Consecratio episcopalis reservatur Romano Pontifici ita ut nulli Episcopo liceat quemquam consecrare in Episcopum, nisi prius constet de pontificio mandato.

Can. 953. Episcopal consecration is reserved to the Roman Pontiff, so that no Bishop is permitted to consecrate anyone to be a Bishop, unless the pontifical mandate is first established.
[[User:PensiveHapax|PensiveHapax]] ([[User talk:PensiveHapax|talk]]) 23:41, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
:{{ping|PensiveHapax}} {{tq|the excommunication occurred in 1975}}: no, it occured in 1985. The suspension ''a divinis'' occured in 1975. [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 23:51, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
::Ah, I see. Thanks. [[User:PensiveHapax|PensiveHapax]] ([[User talk:PensiveHapax|talk]]) 01:57, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

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