View source for Talk:Major League Baseball All-Star Game

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{{merged from|Major League Baseball All-Star|4 December 2018}}
{{old move|date=14 April 2024|destination=MLB All-Star Game|result=not moved|link=Special:Permalink/1219459035#Requested move 14 April 2024}}

{{archives}}
==2020 Merger proposal==
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0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
<center>
:The following discussion is an archived discussion of a  
'''''[[Wikipedia:Proposed mergers |Merge Proposal]]''''' and / or '''''[[Wikipedia:Redirect |Redirect]].''''' 
<span style="color:red" "font:bold">'''Please do not modify it.''' </span></br> 
The result of the request for the Proposed Merger of [[2020 Major League Baseball All-Star Game]] into this talk page's article was: 

 '''Not Done—Consensus Reached'''.</br>—     —     —     —     —</center>

[[Wikipedia:Proposed mergers#MERGE REQUESTS|Formal request has been received to merge]]: [[2020 Major League Baseball All-Star Game]] into [[Major League Baseball All-Star Game]]; dated: July 7, 2020. Proposer's Rationale:''The 2020 MLB All-Star Game will never happen and there is already a paragraph in the merge target talking about the cancellation, like how the also-cancelled 2012 New York City Marathon and 2020 New York City Marathon redirects to New York City Marathon and there is total support for merging 2020 Boston Marathon into Boston Marathon. 108.41.60.144''.  Discuss here. [[User:GenQuest|<span style="color:Purple; text-shadow:brown 0.1em 0.2em 0.1em;">GenQuest</span>]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:GenQuest|<span style="color:Purple; text-shadow:brown 0.1em 0.2em 0.1em;">"Talk to Me"</span>]]</sup></small> 08:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': Most articles listed in [[:Category:Sports events cancelled due to the COVID-19 pandemic]], including its sub-categories, have NOT been merged, many of which are about the same length as this one. [[2020 New York City Marathon]] is one of the few exceptions, solely because it has always been a redirect and never developed into an article.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2020_New_York_City_Marathon&action=history] Furthermore, I am concerned that in the tong-term that the non-free logo [[:File:2020 Major League Baseball All-Star Game logo.png]] could not survive under the strict rules of [[WP:NFCCP]] #8, [[Wikipedia:FUR]] and the like if it is merged. The [[2020 Boston Marathon]] never had a separate non-free image to deal with.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=963886876] If it has to be merged, it should point instead to [[2022 Major League Baseball All-Star Game]], which was also given to Los Angeles' Dodgers Stadium as a make-up. The 2020 non-free logo could probably work under [[2022 Major League Baseball All-Star Game#Host selection]] rather than the [[Major League Baseball All-Star Game]] page. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] ([[User talk:Zzyzx11|talk]]) 01:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Cancelled events can have pages too (in addition to the COVID-19 categoried articles, see [[1994 World Series]]), and there's enough coverage of the 2020 MLB All Star Game, in terms of [https://www.mlb.com/news/dodger-stadium-to-host-2020-all-star-game-c271774496 host selection] and [https://www.si.com/mlb/indians/news/strat-o-matic-to-broadcast-their-own-2020-mlb-all-star-game-featuring-cleveland-native-drew-carey alternative plans] that we can keep this standalone article. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 16:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Adding this much content would give this non-event undue weight on the page. [[User:Ckruschke|Ckruschke]] ([[User talk:Ckruschke|talk]]) 19:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)Ckruschke
*'''Oppose''' Too much undue weight adding this to the main article, and enough information that a stub should be retained as-is. <span style="font-family: Roboto;">'''[[User:Mrschimpf|<span style="color:royalblue4">Nate</span>]]''' <span style="color:#00008B">•</span> <small>''([[User_talk:Mrschimpf|<span style="color:#B8860B">chatter</span>]])''</small></span> 02:22, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' [[1945 Major League Baseball All-Star Game|1945 MLB ASG]] was cancelled due to World War II. It has a stand-alone page. [[User:Bob305|Bob305]] ([[User talk:Bob305|talk]]) 05:45, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

<center>—  —  —  —  — <br>  The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[WP:PM]].  
<span style="color:red" "font:bold">Please do not modify it. </span></br>
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.  
 [[User:GenQuest|<span style="color:Purple; text-shadow:brown 0.1em 0.2em 0.1em;">GenQuest</span>]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:GenQuest|<span style="color:Purple; text-shadow:brown 0.1em 0.2em 0.1em;">"Talk to Me"</span>]]</sup></small> 15:09, 18 July 2020 (UTC)</br></center>
<small>A copy of this template can be found [[User:GenQuest/Merge|here]].
</small></div>
<!-- Template:RM bottom -->

== Requested move 11 March 2021 ==
{{move review talk|date=2 April 2021|result=procedural close – RM relisted by closer}}
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''

The result of the move request was: Not moved. As pointed out in the discussion, [[WP:SHORTFORM]] is not a policy or guideline, unlike [[MOS:ACROTITLE]] (or [[WP:TITLEFORMAT]] in the article titles policy). It would need a very strong consensus to override an established policy or guideline, which clearly does not exist here. {{nac}}  ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 01:24, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
----


[[:Major League Baseball All-Star Game]] → {{no redirect|MLB All-Star Game}} – Full name basis does not reflect common usage. <span style="border:1px solid #445A38;padding:1px;">[[User:ViperSnake151|<span style="color:#8f5902">ViperSnake151</span>]] [[User_talk:ViperSnake151|<span style="color:#fff;background:#88A976;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</span>]] </span> 02:40, 11 March 2021 (UTC)<small>—'''''Relisting.'''''&nbsp;[[User:Jerm|Jerm]] ([[User talk:Jerm|talk]]) 23:47, 5 April 2021 (UTC)</small>

*'''Support''' per [[WP:SHORTFORM]]. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold">'''''BD2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 05:00, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom. Should other pages containing the league's full name also be moved accordingly? '''[[User:LSGH|LSGH]]''' ([[User talk:LSGH|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/LSGH|contributions]]) 01:00, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

{{u|ViperSnake151}}, {{u|BD2412}}, & {{u|LSGH}} I have reopend and relisted the RM after the move review. [[User:Jerm|Jerm]] ([[User talk:Jerm|talk]]) 23:52, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. We have a standard of calling Major League Baseball by its full name on Wikipedia. If you want to start a discussion on whether to change that, this is not the correct place to start. [[User:Songwaters|Songwaters]] ([[User talk:Songwaters|talk]]) 00:37, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
* '''support'''.  I wanted to oppose because longform names, short of causing the title to linewrap, are better for readers, and searchers.  However, “MLB” appears [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/mlb eg] to have exactly one universally recognised meaning, and there is a definite logic to sub articles using the well recognised abbreviated name of the parent article, [[Major League Baseball]]. —[[User:SmokeyJoe|SmokeyJoe]] ([[User talk:SmokeyJoe|talk]]) 01:07, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. While some participants in the move review cited [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations#Acronyms in page titles]], I think [[WP:SHORTFORM]] is more directly on point. This case is entirely analogous to the examples given at WP:SHORTFORM, such as: "[[Central Intelligence Agency]], but [[CIA activities in Vietnam]]... ''not'' [[Central Intelligence Agency activities in Vietnam]]". [[User:Adumbrativus|Adumbrativus]] ([[User talk:Adumbrativus|talk]]) 01:45, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
*:The MOS is a guideline that has widespread consensus, while SHORTFORM is an explanatory supplement mostly written by the editor who first cited it above, that gets about one view per day. It "has not been thoroughly vetted by the community". The MOS should be given more weight. [[User:Station1|Station1]] ([[User talk:Station1|talk]]) 04:21, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per Songwaters. [[User:Randy Kryn|Randy Kryn]] ([[User talk:Randy Kryn|talk]]) 11:31, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
* '''Oppose'''. There is no reason to make a title more ambiguous. People outside of the US might not know what MLB stands for, while "Major League Baseball" makes the title much more clear. Also, [[WP:SHORTFORM]] is not a guideline, as can be seen by the message box at the top of its page, meaning that it holds much less weight than [[MOS:ACROTITLE]], which is. --[[User:Gonnym|Gonnym]] ([[User talk:Gonnym|talk]]) 11:51, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations#Acronyms in page titles]]. Major League Baseball is not known by its acronym the way that NASA or the CIA are. The page gives the CIA as a mid-range example where its still spelled out. I cannot speak to why a subpage has the acronym, other than to say two wrongs don't make a right. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 15:40, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Support''' [[WP:SHORTFORM]] seems to follow the spirit of the policy [[WP:CONCISE]].  I can accept if [[MOS:ACROTITLE]] concludes that the [[Major League Baseball]] page itself should not be the abbreviated because it sounds more "professional". However, longer combinations like [[Major League Baseball All-Star Game]] are less used, and [[MLB All-Star Game]] is not ambiguous, even if one argued that plain "MLB" was. The [[WP:OTHERSTUFF]] argument is that we have plenty of [[NFL]], [[NBA]], and [[NHL]]s in descriptive titles. I don't buy the "people outside of the US" argument. The lead sentence would still clearly identify the subject, and redirects using the full name would be in place.—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 11:25, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' So far, no one has demonstrated the common name. [[User:Jerm|Jerm]] ([[User talk:Jerm|talk]]) 16:29, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
**FWIW, a general Google search has [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Major+League+Baseball+All-Star+Game%22&client=safari&source=hp&ei=BTV0YIHoL_yg5NoP1qmw4AM&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYHRDFRmnwWvNYmOIrv2qwoPpNL96mdxz&oq=%22Major+League+Baseball+All-Star+Game%22&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDUK8DWK8DYLgIaABwAHgAgAGIB4gB4wuSAQU1LTEuMZgBAKABAqABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjB_r3w0vjvAhV8EFkFHdYUDDwQ4dUDCAw&uact=5 327,000 hits for "Major League Baseball All-Star Game"] and [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22MLB+All-Star+Game%22&client=safari&ei=DzV0YLWlFYfXtAbo1JqgBA&oq=%22MLB+All-Star+Game%22&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBggAEAcQHjoHCAAQRxCwA1DmtgVYnc8FYKjUBWgDcAJ4AoAB9QmIAZolkgELMy0xLjEuMC4yLjKYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6yAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwj16IX10vjvAhWHK80KHWiqBkQQ4dUDCAw&uact=5 4,000,000 for "MLB All-Star Game"].—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 11:57, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Clear pass of [[WP:SHORTFORM]] IMO. <span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS;">[[User:Frank Anchor|<span style="color: #FF2400;">Frank Anchor</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Frank Anchor|<span style="color: #000080;">Talk</span>]]</sup></span> 15:59, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The common term by which the game is known is "All-Star Game," not "MLB All-Star Game". We can't just call the article All-Star Game, however, because other leagues have their own All-Star Games. Therefore, it needs the identifier. Also, all articles about Major League Baseball subjects spell it out (such as [[Major League Baseball Rookie of the Year Award]]). [[User:Sanfranciscogiants17|Sanfranciscogiants17]] ([[User talk:Sanfranciscogiants17|talk]]) 11:39, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
*:Other baseball articles might be named that way ([[WP:OTHERSTUFF]]), but other sports don't e.g. [[NBA All-Star Game]], [[NHL All-Star Game]]. The question is what is the rationale for the expanded name, and why should we continue it?—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 11:49, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
{{abot}}

== Move review (not a requested move) ==
{{atop|result=Move discussion relisted above at [[#Requested move 11 March 2021]]}}
[[:MLB All-Star Game]] → {{no redirect|Major League Baseball All-Star Game}} – I did not see the RM that took place a few weeks ago, but clearly neither did most editors based on the low participation. I believe that nomination and the two support votes were mistaken. [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations#Acronyms in page titles]] says {{tq|Acronyms should be used in a page name if the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation and that abbreviation is primarily associated with the subject.}} The example it gives of that is NASA. Major League Baseball is not known ''primarily'' by the acronym "MLB". It would be reasonable to assume that people who are not so familiar with baseball may not know what "MLB" means. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 19:31, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Wrong venue'''. [[WP:MR|Move review]] exists for a reason. [[User:Calidum|<span style="color:#01796F; font-family:serif">'''-- ''Calidum'''''</span>]] 19:39, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
**You make a good point there. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 19:51, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
*:{{u|Calidum}}, move review [[Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2021 April|requested]]. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 19:57, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
:::Good move. As of now I am undecided on the request itself. [[User:Calidum|<span style="color:#01796F; font-family:serif">'''-- ''Calidum'''''</span>]] 19:58, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Support''' redirect back to Major League Baseball All-Star Game. In addition to Muboshgu's points, the standard on Wikipedia is to use Major League Baseball rather than MLB. [[User:Songwaters|Songwaters]] ([[User talk:Songwaters|talk]]) 15:26, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
*:{{u|Songwaters}}, this isn't a requested move thread per Calidum's advice. Please comment at [[Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2021 April]]. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 16:42, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Comment:''' This is not requested move discussion. The discussion has already relisted. [[Special:Contributions/36.68.161.33|36.68.161.33]] ([[User talk:36.68.161.33|talk]]) 02:30, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
{{abot}}

== who? ==

Article says: "While the Reds were a good offensive team, most baseball observers agreed that they did not deserve seven starters in the All-Star Game."

Since "most" does not mean "all," I'd be interested to know which baseball observers were satisfied with the results of the ballot box stuffing. Were they from Cincinnati?  [[Special:Contributions/74.104.189.176|74.104.189.176]] ([[User talk:74.104.189.176|talk]]) 17:37, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

== Update request ==

The player selection section still reflects an era when the NL did not use the DH. Presumably, now that the DH is used in the NL, the fans get to vote on the NL DH in the all-star game, so it should be updated to say that. {{Userlinks-abbr|All in}} 🔒 '''[[User:All in|ALL ]][[User talk:All in|IN]]''' 🧿 17:10, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

== Move discussion in progress ==

There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Major League Baseball#Requested move 14 April 2024|Talk:Major League Baseball]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Major League Baseball#Requested move 14 April 2024 crosspost --> —[[User:RMCD bot|RMCD bot]] 20:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)