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==Initial text==
The tag for superscripts is &lt;sup&gt; which is closed with &lt;/sup&gt;

The tag for subscripts is (similarly) - sub <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Marj Tiefert|Marj Tiefert]] ([[User talk:Marj Tiefert#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Marj Tiefert|contribs]]) 16:19, 16 May 2002 (UTC)</small>
== M+N, M*N, kM ==


I believe that if two matrices M, N are magic squares, then M+N, M*N, kM are also magic squares. If I'm right, could someone add this?

Also, out of interest -- let M be the set of all n x n magic squares, for some n. Let V be the real vector space (M,+), where + is matrix addition. Does V exist? How many dimensions has V? Can you give a basis for V? (I am asking this question for all n, but would appreciate answers even for a particular n > 1). -- [[User:SJK|SJK]]

Addition of magic squares produces magic squares (ignoring that the coefficients are not consecutive integers). Multiplication of magic squares, however, does not: 816357492<sup>2</sup> is<br>
91 67 67<br>
67 91 67<br>
67 67 91. -[[User:PierreAbbat|phma]]

== To SJK: ==

Provided your definition of a [[magic square]] is just that the columns,
rows and long diagonals have the same sum, then the magic squares with real
entries do form a [[vector space]] over '''R'''.

For ''n'' = 2, the dimension is 1, because all the entries must be equal.

For ''n'' = 3, the dimension is 3, because you can choose the first row
freely, but this then determines all the remaining entries.
The following three matrices form a basis:

 / 3  0  0 \      / 0  3  0 \      / 0  0  3 \
 |-2  1  4 |      | 1  1  1 |      | 4  1 -2 |
 \ 2  2 -1 /      \ 2 -1  2 /      \-1  2  2 /

I don't know how to determine the dimension in general, although it must
be at least ''n''<sup>2</sup>-2''n''-1 and no more than ''n''<sup>2</sup>.
--[[User:Zundark|Zundark]] 14:51 Sep 13, 2002 (UTC)

The dimension is well known to be ''n''<sup>2</sup>-2''n''-1. [[User:Zaslav|Zaslav]] 03:17, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
:Actually, it's ''n''<sup>2</sup>-2''n''  The math works out this way, and I can give bases for the 3x3 and 4x4 vector space (of size 3 and 8 resp.) --[[Special:Contributions/128.61.115.86|128.61.115.86]] ([[User talk:128.61.115.86|talk]]) 05:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
::Figured out the confusion: the well-known result (the extra minus one) is WITH the restriction to the first consecutive ''n''<sup>2</sup> integers.  This restriction fixes the magic number, reducing the number of unknowns by one, but it also destroys the vector spaceness of the set.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Quintopia|Quintopia]] ([[User talk:Quintopia|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Quintopia|contribs]]) 18:04, 24 April 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Loh-Shu magic square ==

Isn't there a legend that the Loh-Shu magic square was first seen written on the shell of a turtle? -- [[User:Tarquin|Tarquin]] 21:34 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)
:See [http://mathforum.org/alejandre/magic.square/loshu.html] Cheers [[User:Chas zzz brown|Chas zzz brown]] 07:59 Feb 2, 2003 (UTC)

:See [[Lo Shu Square]]. &mdash;[[User:Herbee|Herbee]] 17:53, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
----
The following section is not very enlightening, so I'm taking it out until someone can elaborate.
:''[[Euler]] showed how to derive magic squares from [[Latin squares]].''
&mdash;[[User:Herbee|Herbee]] 18:01, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)


Yes, It is a legend. So that I personally believe that it is not a truth.--[[User:Meavel|Meavel]] 06:05, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

== Definition ==

* Halló! I have some problems with the definition: Both according to [http://mathworld.wolfram.com/MagicSquare.html Mathworld] and to [http://www.geocities.com/~harveyh/magicsquare.htm Harvey Heinz] (this link should be included at [[Magic square#External links|#External links]]) the numbers '''start with 1''' and end with '''n<sup>2</sup>'''.
* I would suggest that Wikipedia should use the same definition. To my understanding the "''other''" squares are somehow related or just simple "''magic patterns''".
* For analysis purposes more equivalent representations can be given: numbers from 0 to n<sup>2</sup>-1; odd numbers from -n<sup>2</sup>+1 to n<sup>2</sup>-1 and probably others.
* I developed a set of templates to be used to ilustrate many properties of 4x4 type magic squares at [[meta:Category:4x4 type square]]. Please let me know if you have some time to work on this subject and to help to make a wikibook at en: in other languages. We should make some documenation first and a list of items to work on. Thanks in advance! Best regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] | [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:User talk:Gangleri|action=history}} Th] | [[{{ns:User_talk}}:Gangleri|T]] 22:40, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

The term "magic square" covers many different though related ideas.  They all have in common that the rows and columns have the same "magic sum".  The diagonals should be included, but research mathematicians have often been very sloppy about that and other requirements; properly, a square that is magic for rows and columns, ignoring the diagonals, is "semimagic", not "magic".  Recreational mathematicians (a different group from research mathematicians) have always included the diagonal sums in the requirements.  I also have never heard of any magic squares whose entries are not integers, except in the vector-space generalization alluded to in another comment.  Historically, squares with negative entries seem not to have appeared, but squares with 0 have appeared (centuries ago) and squares with entries that are consecutive integers but not starting with 1 have also appeared for centuries (usually, I think, as tools to make larger squares out of smaller ones).  Squares with entries that are nonconsecutive integers have been studied in the twentieth century and possibly the nineteenth.  Thus, your two references are excessively narrow and not historically justified.

Subtracting or adding any constant to the entries of a magic square, e.g., 1, will always give a magic square.  This is so obvious that it seems silly to discuss it at length.  (It might be worth a mention in the appropriate subsection, if there is one.)

[[User:Zaslav|Zaslav]] 03:28, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

== Yang Hui's square and "table of Jupiter" ==

* See: [[meta:User:Gangleri/tests/4x4 type square/generating magic squares with T000]]. Regards [[User:Gangleri|Gangleri]] | [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:User talk:Gangleri|action=history}} Th] | [[{{ns:User_talk}}:Gangleri|T]] 23:23, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

== Constructing a magic square of doubly even order ==
It is necessary write the numbers from right to left? (Keyword: symmetry)

== Western occult ==

* Durer's Melancholia square, noted in the article, is reportedly based on the magic squares of his contemporary, occultist [[Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa]]. [http://www.alchemylab.com/melancholia.htm] Agrippa apparently assigned magic squares of the orders of 3 through 9 to the planets (and astrological/alchemical figures) Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sol (the sun), Venus, Mercury, and Luna (the moon) respectively, hence the "table of Jupiter" noted above. ([http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/agripp2b.htm#chap22 See Agrippa's text for more.]) I believe his "tables" would be inscribed on magic talismans, in hopes of harnessing the various virtues and powers of each particular planet.

== Historic image available ==

If anyone's interested, I just uploaded [[:Image:16th century arabic magic square.jpg]].  Couldn't see an obvious place to add it, so I thought I'd just let you know.  &mdash; [[User:Laurascudder|Laura Scudder]] [[User talk:Laurascudder|&#9742;]] 01:40, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

:That is a great image, but unfortunately, there are "typos" (perhaps scribal copying errors) as the square has repeated digits which break the magic sums. This is easy to fix: r3c2 should be 23 (not 13), r4c1 should be 5 (not 30), and r4c4 should be 19 (not 29), but it may be hard to find a reference that notes the error. ''[[User talk:Geometry guy|Geometry guy]]'' 01:58, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

== Ben Franklin and others ==

Mr. Franklin was a great fan of magic squares, and created quite a few HUGE (16x16, 24x24) magic squares with a number of interesting attributes.

I also recall a magic square that had to do with the 365 days in our year. After a brief web search, I found on this site: http://www.jainmathemagics.com/page/1/default.asp that it says 
"This 27 x 27 Magic Square Calendar has, as its central cell, the number 365 which is the number of days in a solar year. It has 364 dark cells which represent the number of nights, and 365 white cells which represent the number of days. The Magic Sum of the inner and central 3x3 square is 1,095 being the number of days in a 3 year period. The Magic Sum of the 9x9 square is 3,285 being the number of days in a 9 year period. The Magic Sum of the whole 27x27 square is 9,855 being the number of days in a 27 year period."

I also recall a few other crazy interesting magic squares (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeMagicSquare.html is neat), and know that there have been some famous people (besides Franklin and Durer) that dabbled with/used magic squares.

If anyone wants to run with this idea to add a section on a list of famous people who played with magic squares or who wants to add a section talking about the many connections with various occultist/whatever things ... go ahead. Email me at cht13er a t gmaildotcom if you like :-) [[User:Cheater|cheater]] 14:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

== Magic Squares of odd order ==
Perhaps I have missed something, but aren't the first and second paragraphs of this section saying the same thing? [[User:Bio rules|Bio]] 18:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== Source of info ==
I saw this [http://user.chollian.net/~brainstm/MagicSquare.htm site on smagic quares] and I think the construction of magic squares there is easier. Can someone investigate this? --[[User:Blonkm|Blonkm]] 02:38, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

== Islam ==
Islam is a religion, I think the part titled "Islam" should be renamed. It is about arabic uses of magic squares. It should be called "Arabs".

What about mid-eastern?  [[User:Yongke|Yongke]] 17:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)



== More "See also" ==
I moved 2 cube links to end, then added 3 hypercube links.[[User:Harvey Heinz|Harvey Heinz]] 17:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== "Middle Number" and "Last Number" ==

In the section describing how to construct a magic square of odd order, the article posted two assertions about the properties of "Middle Number" and "Last Number", namely:<br />
<blockquote>
The "Middle Number" is '''always''' in the diagonal bottom left to top right.<br />
The "Last Number" is '''always''' opposite the number 1 in an outside column or row.
</blockquote>
Queries. Counterexample for a magic square of order 5:<br />
{| class="wikitable"
|-
| 3 
| 9 
| 12
| 20
| 21
|-
| 17
| 25
| 1 
| 8 
| 14
|-
| 6 
| 13
| 19
| 22
| 5 
|-
| 24
| 2 
| 10
| 11
| 18
|-
| 15
| 16
| 23
| 4 
| 7 
|}
The "Middle Number" is 13, the "Last Number" is 25, but 13 (Middle Number) is not always in the diagonal bottom left to top right and 25 (Last Number) is not always opposite 1 in an outside column or row for an order 5 (odd order) magic square.<br />
<br />
A very good site on magic square, where I found the counterexample from, is http://www.magic-squares.de/general/general.html.<br />
<br />
In my opinion, an order ''n'' magic square must be a square array of natural numbers from 1 to ''n''<sup>2</sup> arranged in a way such that every row, every column, and the two diagonals all sum to a constant. Other so-called magic squares that do not fit to this definition are not considered "magical" and beautiful for me. But again, that's just my opinion.<br />
<br />
By the way, this article is hard to follow and seriously needs a lot of decoration, the magic squares look horrible.<br />
<br />
[[User:Wei Cheng|Wei Cheng]] ([[User talk:Wei Cheng|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

:The section is called "A method for constructing a magic square of odd order". The statements about the middle and last number only apply to magic squares constructed with that method. You are right that there exist other magic squares not having the same property. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 11:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

::Thank you, PrimeHunter, for pointing out my mistakes. I skimmed the article, so I didn't pay close attention to the wording. I would delete the formulae under that section since it is kind of trivial, insignificant and useless. We are already told an easy method of constructing odd order magic squares, so why bother with the more complicated formulae, which only help locate two numbers? Also, for the history of magic squares, why not just directly link from the Lo Shu Square article, with the pictorial graph of order 3 magic square rather than the modern representation? [[User:Wei Cheng|Wei Cheng]] ([[User talk:Wei Cheng|talk]]) 10:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

==Siamese method==
[[Image:SiameseMethod.gif|thumb|A simple example of the [[Siamese method]]. Starting with "1", boxes are filled diagonally up and right (↗). When a move would leave the square, it is wrapped around to the last row or first column, respectively. If a filled box is encountered, one moves vertically down one box (↓) instead, then continuing as before.]]
Here a nice animation of the [[Siamese method]], which I guess could be used also in the main [[Magic square]] article. Cheers [[User:PHG|PHG]] ([[User talk:PHG|talk]]) 04:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Special Case for 3x3==
I was combing the internet trying to find a method to make an arbitrary 3x3 magic square -- not a normalized one. Meaning the sum doesn't have to be 15. I remember in grade school there was a simple method they taught to do it, but I couldn't remember it.

I worked out the trick, or a method. In a 3x3 magic square the center is always 1/3 of the sum. Knowing that it's easy to make an arbitrary magic square. Just choose the top 3 numbers of the square and make sure the sum is a multiple of 3 greater than 15. Say

7 9 2

We know the center square is 6 since the sum is 18. From that you can work out the whole square easily.

<table border cols=3>
<tr><td>7</td><td>9</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td>1</td><td>6</td><td>11</td></tr>
<tr><td>10</td><td>3</td><td>5</td></tr>
</table>

Anyway I thought it would be a nice addition to the methods of construction, maybe someone wants to add it in.

[[User:David_Ashley|David Ashley]]  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 03:04, 8 November 2008 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Read about this what properties does it have?!? ==

I saw this "magic square" somewhere, what properties does it have?!? It's not magic!
 89 3 34
 8 21 55
 13 144 5
[[User:Professor Fiendish|Professor]] [[User talk:Professor Fiendish|M.]] [[Special:Contributions/Professor Fiendish|Fiendish]], [[User:Professor Fiendish/Page of Doom!|Esq.]] 03:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

== A New Interpretation of Odd Magic Squares in the Lo Shu format ==

FYI [[A New Interpretation of Odd Magic Squares in the Lo Shu format]] has been prodded now - see [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics#New article help‎]]. [[User:Rd232|Rd232]] <sup>[[user talk:rd232|talk]]</sup> 11:30, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

== [[:file:2009.10.23 quaternion square 01.png]] ==

[[file:2009.10.23 quaternion square 01.png|thumb|right|384]]

‫·‏[[user:לערי ריינהארט|לערי ריינהארט]]‏·‏[[user talk:לערי ריינהארט|T]]‏·‏[[m:user:לערי ריינהארט|m]]‏:‏[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/user_talk:%D7%9C%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%99_%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%94%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%98?action=history Th]‏·‏[[m:user talk:לערי ריינהארט|T]]‏·‏[[m:special:Emailuser/לערי ריינהארט|email me]]‏·‏‬ 23:09, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
<br clear="all" />


== Is This a Spam Link?==
Should http://Magic-squares.net be linked to this page?
Whie posted on Wikipedia's Magic Squares page, this discussion applies to all magic square catagory articles.

The powers-that-be think that this is a SPAM LINK.
but
* It is one of the oldest sites on magic squares on the Internet.(http://www.geocities.com/~harveyh before being forced to move in late October 2009). The new site URL is http://www.magic-squares.net/
* It is one of the largest, most comprhensive, and well researched sites on magic hypercubes on the Internet (over  70 MB in 4 interconnected sites).
* It contains extensive bibliographies, historical quotations and examples, statistics, a timeline, etc.
*It can supply much additional material and many visual examples in support of this article and the other articles in the Magic Squares catagory).

Links to the above site have now all been removed from all magic square catagory articles. Because of how quickly this happened after my posting, I must assume it was done without proper review. Is that fair? 
I do not wish to get into a discussion of which web sites are better.
But I do see existing links on these pages which clearly do not add to the material in the article at hand.

What do you think? --[[User:Harvey Heinz|Harvey Heinz]] ([[User talk:Harvey Heinz|talk]]) 23:56, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
:: Good site. Definitely not a spam link. [[User:Machine Elf 1735|Machine Elf 1735]] ([[User talk:Machine Elf 1735|talk]]) 00:01, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

== incorrect information ==

I think that some of the information in this article is incorrect.
(1) There is no reference to magic squares of planets that I could find in either Agrippa's Three 
Books of Occult Philosophy or Magic or in Agrippa's Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy.
It appears that the information in the wiki article comes from a blog of Mark Swaney.
That is certainly not a primary source. If it is indeed from one of the Agrippa books,
then that book and the page numbers in the book should be referenced.

(2) The magic square given for the Sun is not the same as that given on page 395
in Budge's book Amulets and Superstitions, Oxford University Press, 1930.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Haralick|Haralick]] ([[User talk:Haralick|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Haralick|contribs]]) 05:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== More "references" ==

Added the reference Demirörs, Rafraf, and Tanik (1992). [[User:Scribbleink|Scribbleink]] ([[User talk:Scribbleink|talk]]) 22:40, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

== Simplified explanation of Melancholia I magic square ==
For this magic square it could be noted that any combination of four numbers that exhibit a ''radial symmetry'' about the center add up to 34. In other words any four box locations that are in the same locations when the whole square is rotated 180 degrees or sometimes just 90 degrees will add up to 34. This is of course in addition to the other ''asymmetrical'' arrangements such as in columns, rows, and the three-square groupings' corners.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Carlsez|Carlsez]] ([[User talk:Carlsez|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Carlsez|contribs]]) 17:31, 20 January 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Cheating dice ==

There is a connection between magic squares and cheating dice. For example, use the rows of a 3x3 square as sides of triangular dice A, B and C:

*A: 8, 1, 6
*B: 3, 5, 7
*C: 4, 9, 2

Each dice has the same total number of points.  But if you throw any pair of dice:

*A beats B 5 times out of 9.
*B beats C 5 times out of 9.
*C beats A 5 times out of 9.

I have not investigated whether this is true of all additive squares.

nrp@dog-days.co.uk  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/87.112.8.225|87.112.8.225]] ([[User talk:87.112.8.225|talk]]) 11:30, 16 March 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Unsolved problems in Mathematics? ==

I am not sure if Magic Squares should be in the "Unsolved problems in Mathematics" category. 

[[User:Reddevyl|Bande-Ali]] ([[User talk:Reddevyl|talk]]) 06:08, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

== Geomagic squares ==

To editor [[user:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]]:  I notice that you reverted my reference to the two new kinds of squares introduced by Lee Sallows, saying, "new generalization is not notable".  I want to make a case for geomagic squares, at least, being notable.  In [http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/apr/03/magic-squares-geomagic-lee-sallows '''Magic squares are given a whole new dimension'''], [[The Observer]], April 3, 2011  we find
:[[Peter Cameron (mathematician)|Peter Cameron]], professor of mathematics at Queen Mary, University of London, calls geomagic squares "a wonderful new piece of recreational maths, which will delight non-mathematicians and give mathematicians food for thought". Despite the inherent whimsy of the field, he said: "I have no doubt that there is serious maths to be done here, too."

and in [http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20017-ancient-puzzle-gets-new-lease-of-geomagical-life.html '''Ancient puzzle gets new lease of 'geomagical' life'''], [[New Scientist]], January 24, 2011 we find
:So could geomagic squares have applications outside the study of puzzles? Cameron certainly thinks so. "You can ask these questions in much more general terms," he says.

See  at [http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/geomagic-squares/ '''Peter Cameron's blog'''] for more remarks along these lines.

If you truly feel that geomagic squares are not notable, I will not contest it.

Thank you for your time  —  [[User:Foobarnix|Foobarnix]] ([[User talk:Foobarnix|talk]]) 03:32, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

:Seems to be a neologism, which has not yet met the test of time.  However, it appears to have appeared in the popular press (although ''[[New Scientist]]'' has been known to publish press releases as news articles.)  Cameron's speculation on uses or applications are not much more notable than my speculations would be.  I think, perhaps, a ''sentence'' in "generalizations" would not be undue weight.  
:Which is about what you added.  My only suggestion is to put the ''New Scientist'' article as a reference, rather than as an external link.  — [[User:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]]  [[User talk:Arthur Rubin|(talk)]] 16:35, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

::Thank you Arthur Rubin for your thoughtful response.  I think you said it is all right to put the reference back in and I have done so.  However, I did remove the mention of Sallows's ''alphamagic squares'' which I would agree with you are not mathematically significant.  I cited the Guardian/Observer article rather than New Scientist because I consider it more reliable.  In my opinion, the idea of geomagic squares is more than a neologism—it is a true generalization.  The best case for the significance of this generalization was made by Sallows himself who has said, "Traditional magic squares featuring numbers are then revealed as that particular case of 'geomagic' squares in which the elements are all one-dimensional."  See [http://www.geomagicsquares.com/intro.php Lee Sallows website] for a more complete explanation of this point. — [[User:Foobarnix|Foobarnix]] ([[User talk:Foobarnix|talk]]) 05:09, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

== Repetition ==

The section on the first 5 and 6 order squares is repeated literally. make choice on where to delete [[Special:Contributions/145.100.125.133|145.100.125.133]] ([[User talk:145.100.125.133|talk]]) 07:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

The section "Cultural Significance" is redundant and unreferenced: it should be removed.[[Special:Contributions/91.92.179.172|91.92.179.172]] ([[User talk:91.92.179.172|talk]]) 10:05, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
It is not certain that magic square  have any significance that is not cultural, so this brief section 'cultural significance' was removed: 

"Magic squares have fascinated humanity throughout the ages, and have been around for over 4,120 years{{Citation needed|date=August 2012}}. They are found in a number of cultures, including [[Egypt]]{{Citation needed|date=August 2012}} and [[India]], engraved on stone or metal and worn as [[amulet|talisman]]s, the belief being that magic squares had [[astrology|astrological]] and divinatory qualities, their usage ensuring longevity and prevention of diseases."[[Special:Contributions/91.92.179.172|91.92.179.172]] ([[User talk:91.92.179.172|talk]]) 13:59, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

== Related problems ==

Besides magic squares of primes, there is a longstanding unsolved problem relating a 3x3 magic square of perfect squares. The case 4x4 was solved by Euler in 1770. But please refer to http://www.multimagie.com/English/SquaresOfSquares.htm for more magic square of squares examples.

Also note that http://www.multimagie.com/English/Records.htm shows a table of known multimagic squares, where a square with entries {s(a,b) with 1 <= a,b <= k} is n-multimagic if each square formed by {s(a,b)^i with 1 <= a,b <= k} is magic, for i = 1, ..., n.
[[User:Bcurfs|Bcurfs]] ([[User talk:Bcurfs|talk]]) 00:55, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

== Simple magic square ==

The page [[Simple magic square]] appears in [[WP:DUSTY]] and hasn't been edited since 2007 and is unreferenced. What do people think should happen to the article?--[[User:Salix alba|Salix]] ([[User talk:Salix alba|talk]]): 15:36, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
:I would say that a merge is in order, with perhaps a slightly higher (earlier in the article) introduction of pandiagonal magic squares. The "simple" adjective doesn't add anything and I've never seen it used (but I am no authority on the subject). [[User:Wcherowi|Bill Cherowitzo ]] ([[User talk:Wcherowi|talk]]) 17:30, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

== Number of magic squares ==

I managed to calculate the number of 1x1, 2x2, ..., 5x5, etc. size magic squares. I believe that the number of 5x5 is incorrectly posted as 275,305,224. It should be 275,305,810 according to my formulas. If you'd like see the solutions, then please visit my website... www.oddperfectnumbers.com. I'm not trying to break any guidelines, just provide you with the correct answer.[[Special:Contributions/99.142.32.118|99.142.32.118]] ([[User talk:99.142.32.118|talk]]) 18:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

:According to [http://oeis.org/A006052 OEIS], the number of 5×5 magic squares was calculated by [[Richard Schroeppel|Rich Schroeppel]], but they don't give a reference.  This suggests that the result is unpublished, and it's possible that Schroeppel made a mistake. Perhaps you could contact him and discuss it? —[[User:Dominus|Mark Dominus]] ([[User talk:Dominus|talk]]) 06:48, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

::You might also want to check a more recent (Schroeppel's work dates to 1973) article which provides a generating function for the number of magic squares. Beck, Cohen, Cuomo and Gribelyuk, ''The number of "magic" squares, cubes and hypercubes,'' Amer. Math Monthly 110(2003), 707-717. [[User:Wcherowi|Bill Cherowitzo ]] ([[User talk:Wcherowi|talk]]) 18:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

:::Other computations agree with Rich Schroeppel. A Google search on {{Google|275305224 "magic squares" program}} quickly found [http://www.netstaff.co.jp/msq/msqe.htm], [http://users.eastlink.ca/~sharrywhite/Order5.html], [http://www.f1compiler.com/samples/MagicSquares5x5-All.f1.html]. I haven't found other reports of your number so I suspect you have an error. Thousands of sources mention the accepted count. Your alternative count should not be mentioned in the article without being accepted by a serious peer-reviewed math journal. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:38, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

:::: oh, ok... if all the (programs) agree, then I should doubt my formulas. NO! They all share the same algorithm; I have sent an e-mail to Rich. They reason that I contest his (count) is because, for n=4, 880 has the factor of 11 as does my algebraic formula, and that 11 comes from my generator function "portion". Richard's (computation) does NOT contain the factor 149 which clearly has to be present, since it's in my generator function "portion" for n=5. Our answers are too close not to suppose that Richard's isn't correct and mine could be... I'm 4 for 4... N= 1, 0, 1, 880, and I hope that I'm 5 for 5... N= 275,305,810.[[Special:Contributions/99.142.44.250|99.142.44.250]] ([[User talk:99.142.44.250|talk]]) 02:53, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

::::: I finally did confirm that Richard's computation was correct. It turned out that when 'n' is odd, I have to subract ((n-d)^2)*2^n from my calculation where n= (order) and d= (dimension). we agree at 275, 305, 224. [[Special:Contributions/99.142.24.207|99.142.24.207]] ([[User talk:99.142.24.207|talk]]) 19:05, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

== Genetic Algorithms ==
The idea of using genetic algorithms to construct magic squares seems dubious, given that different solutions have unrelated arrangements of numbers. The page used as a reference certainly does not support the idea: I have not seen the java program it provides successfully generate a single 4x4 magic square! <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Tyson Jacobs|Tyson Jacobs]] ([[User talk:Tyson Jacobs#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tyson Jacobs|contribs]]) 07:40, 15 January 2013 (UTC)</small>

==Modulo vs. times==

I stand by my good faith changes to the section here on medjig method, and would like to undo the revert by Arthur Rubin (see below).
My students here at Canisius College found the current discussion confusing, and helped me word my editing. Here is a summary:
 
The desired square is produced with entries x+9y, where x comes from an N x N square, and y comes from
the solution to a medjig puzzle.   Referring to "modulo" might be saying that once the desired square is produced, 
one can recover the x entries by working modulo 9.    But it is confusing not to point out that x and y entries must first be found, with the y then multiplied by 9.

18:43, 17 April 2013‎ Arthur Rubin (talk | contribs)‎ . . (56,941 bytes) (-13)‎ . . (Reverted good faith edits by 138.92.105.245 (talk): I'm not sure which explanation is more accurate (and/or sourced), but it is really is "modulo". (TW)) (undo)  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/138.92.105.245|138.92.105.245]] ([[User talk:138.92.105.245|talk]]) </span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I'm still not sure which construction is more clear for the 6&times;6 square; I'm not qualified to do that, being a long-time mathematician.  However, it really is '''modulo''' N^2, rather than '''times''' N^2.  In fact, the latter is clearly '''wrong'''.  — [[User:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]]  [[User talk:Arthur Rubin|(talk)]] 18:58, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

== Franklin's chess-knight 64-square ==

Anyone have any idea how Ben Franklin set up his 8x8 magic square in which a chess knight can jump from square 1 to square 64 in sequence?  I've been wondering about this ever since I first saw the square--which doesn't seem to be in this article--at the age of 9.  Thanks in advance!  [signed] FLORIDA BRYAN  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:3:1000:5B1:9227:E4FF:FEF0:BBDE|2601:3:1000:5B1:9227:E4FF:FEF0:BBDE]] ([[User talk:2601:3:1000:5B1:9227:E4FF:FEF0:BBDE|talk]]) 20:42, 24 April 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Maybe it is covered at [[Knight's tour]]. All&nbsp;the&nbsp;best: ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'',&nbsp;<small>06:49,&nbsp;29&nbsp;April&nbsp;2014&nbsp;(UTC).</small><br />

== Quadrasquares ==

When any kind of prime numbers are plotted (in this example) to 5x5 "quadrasquare", they seem to always exhibit even numbers as opposed to other numbers or integer series which give both even and odd numbers.

The example can be downloaded at http://www.2shared.com/document/NIVoia0b/Quadrasquares_with_primes_and_.html as PDF-file. It demonstrates how a "quadrasquare" is assembled. -VET  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/85.156.10.88|85.156.10.88]] ([[User talk:85.156.10.88|talk]]) 13:24, 28 October 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== India ==

I changed the list of sub-squares to include the corners of 4x2 and 2x4 rectangles, and removed the two special cases that are actually included in the set of these rectangles. I'd appreciate it if someone could review my change to make sure it's appropriate. [[Special:Contributions/50.240.201.161|50.240.201.161]] ([[User talk:50.240.201.161|talk]]) 17:40, 18 April 2015 (UTC)Bob S.

== Missing "normal" ==

In the Types and Construction section, it claims that it is impossible to construct a magic square of order 2.  I think it should say "normal magic square", since it's trivial to construct an order 2 magic square if duplicate numbers are allowed.  Based on this and other statements, such as those referring to the difficulty of construction, I suspect most or all of this section really means "normal magic square" whenever it says "magic square" but I don't have the expertise to fully correct this. [[User:Mnudelman|Mnudelman]] ([[User talk:Mnudelman|talk]]) 19:06, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

:Normal magic squares are those using the integers 1 to n^2. In any magic square, normal or not, the numbers have to be all different, so the statement that squares of order 2 are impossible is correct. [[Special:Contributions/2.25.149.104|2.25.149.104]] ([[User talk:2.25.149.104|talk]]) 14:59, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

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== Date of publication of Benjamin Franklin's magic square==
Does anyone know when Franklin's magic square was published? I know that he constructed them around 1750 and privately communicated them in 1770s. But when did the world know about it? [[User:Manoguru|Manoguru]] ([[User talk:Manoguru|talk]]) 19:39, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
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== So what is the "magic" behind magic squares? ==
[[File:Ramanujan_magic_square_construction.svg|thumb|Construction of Ramanujan's magic square from Latin squares and day (D), month (M), century (C) and year (Y) values, and Ramanujan's example]]
What is the "magic" behind magic squares?  Why does it work?  Is there a mathematical formula explaining why it works? Ramanujan did one for his birthday (December 22, 1887), and it worked; I did one for my birthday, and it worked.  So why? [[User:StevenTorrey|StevenTorrey]] ([[User talk:StevenTorrey|talk]]) 20:35, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
:{{ping|StevenTorrey}} Referring to the diagram attached, [[Latin square]]s are matrices in which each row and column (but not necessarily diagonal) has exactly one of each item in a set (the background colours in the example). The diagonals of the one shown also have this property.
:The property is retained when the square is [[transpose]]d, and also when such squares are added together.
:One can thus replace each colour in each square with a mathematical expression or constant: D&minus;1, M&minus;4, C&minus;3, Y&minus;2, 1, 4, 3 and 2 to make the top row have the values wanted: D, M, C and Y.
:Does this explain why it works? '''[[User:cmglee|cm&#610;&#671;ee]]'''&#9094;[[User_Talk:cmglee|&#964;a&#671;&#954;]] 11:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

== Help-Editing question ==

Hello. I don't intend to modify the tag, but I can't find the "This article may be too long to read and navigate comfortably" tag (at the head of the article) in the editor. How can I get at it? [[User:MultiScrivner|MultiScrivner]] ([[User talk:MultiScrivner|talk]]) 02:57, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

== The Goat ==

Hello I am Cristiano Ronaldo

== Inaccurate sentence ==

One sentence reads as follows:

"''Frenicle gave methods to construct magic square of any odd and even order, where the even ordered squares were constructed using borders.''"

This is '''impossible''', because there does not exist a magic square of order 2.

I hope someone knowledgeable about this subject can fix this.

== Suggestion for splitting the article ==

The article contains tons of information about the '''history''' of magic squares, which is not exactly the subject of magic squares per se.

I suggest that '''all''' the historic information be moved to its own article. (Perhaps with a brief summary mentioned in this article, '''but not at the top'''.)

Then this article can focus on the known properties of magic squares, organized logically rather than chronologically.  

The other article can then discuss the history '''without interfering with this article''' as the huge amount of historical information does now.

== Parker Square ==

{{re|Wound theology}} A few weeks ago, you tagged one of the sources for the Parker Square with <nowiki>{{failed verification}}</nowiki>. I fail to understand why, since the quote is literally given on the first page, and is repeated in the Wikipedia article ad verbatim. Did you just look on the website that was linked, rather than actually read the source? In case you're not aware, [[Template:Cite arxiv]] automatically links to the abstract of a cited article, rather than the article itself. The template doesn't have a url parameter, and directly linking to the PDF itself (which is available [https://arxiv.org/pdf/1908.03236 here]) is not possible. [[User:Renerpho|Renerpho]] ([[User talk:Renerpho|talk]]) 04:15, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

:Hi, thanks for your passive aggression and pretentious tone, I very much appreciate it. In case you're not aware, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magic_square&diff=1236881349&oldid=1236876343 when I added] <nowiki>{{failed verification}}</nowiki>, this was the claim: {{tq|The Parker square, named after recreational mathematician Matt Parker}}. I marked it as failed verification because it only mentioned the name "Parker Square" and did not actually have any information on {{em|why}} it was named that -- it links to a YouTube video which was the source before another editor changed it after I removed the section for being [[WP:UGC]]. 
:There is no verbatim mentioned of who it was named after. In fact, this very low-quality, non-peer-reviewed paper is just a stand-in for the source that was there [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magic_square&oldid=1236873240#Parker_square before] --  a YouTube video. [[User:Wound theology|<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:2px;">wound theology</span>]][[User talk:Wound theology|<span style="background:black; color:red; padding:2px;">◈</span>]] 05:30, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
::{{re|Wound theology}} Apologies. Reading my comment again, I agree I was passive aggressive. That wasn't my intention.
::Maybe we can replace the source? I would suggest [https://chalkdustmagazine.com/interviews/in-conversation-with-matt-parker/] (to [[Chalkdust (magazine)|Chalkdust Magazine]]) as a start, if not the book ''Humble Pi'' mentioned there. I think the YouTube video -- and, in extension, the book -- are [[WP:SELFSOURCE]], not [[WP:UGC]]. Maybe it falls under "unduly self-serving"? I would describe the YouTube video as "self-deprecating". There's also Brady Haran's [http://theparkersquare.com/ theparkersquare.com] website, which may be useful. [[User:Renerpho|Renerpho]] ([[User talk:Renerpho|talk]]) 10:57, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
:::I had come here from [[Matt Parker]], where I had just added a note about the recent naming of asteroid (314159) Mattparker. Unfortunately, the naming citation, while recognizing his contributions to recreational mathematics, centres on the ''Pi Day challenges'' and doesn't mention the Parker Square; so it's not really useful as a new source. [[User:Renerpho|Renerpho]] ([[User talk:Renerpho|talk]]) 11:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

== 1988 Method for Constructing Any Size Odd-Order Magic Square ==

Here's a suggested text for the description area:

{{Edit COI|ans=y}}

I am Smaragdos (Marios) Mamzeris, inventor of a unique method for constructing any size odd-order magic square, developed in 1988. As the creator of this method and owner of www.oddmagicsquares.com, I have a conflict of interest but believe this information is valuable for public knowledge.

My method allows for the construction of odd-order magic squares of any size using a systematic approach. It differs from traditional methods by utilizing a systematic cell-shifting technique and a two-step transformation process. The method begins with an initial table of sequential numbers and applies specific left and upward shifts to create any odd-order magic square, offering a universal solution for odd orders. This approach is notable for its efficiency, simplicity, and scalability, making it accessible to a wide range of users while maintaining mathematical integrity for squares of any odd order.

This technique has been documented in my academic paper "MAGIC SQUARES of ODD ORDER BY MARIOS MAMZERIS" ((available at https://www.academia.edu/125450599/MAGIC_SQUARES_of_ODD_ORDER_BY_MARIOS_MAMZERIS)) and is fully explained on my website https://www.oddmagicsquares.com/.

I propose including a brief mention of this method in the "Construction of magic squares" section, with appropriate citations. I'm open to discussion on how to best incorporate this information while maintaining Wikipedia's standards of neutrality and verifiability.

Could the editors please advise on the most appropriate way to proceed with potentially adding this information to the main article?

Thank you for your time and consideration in reviewing this information. [[User:Mamzeris|Mamzeris]] ([[User talk:Mamzeris|talk]]) 11:54, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

:Wikipedia doesn't write about self published materials, which is what your website and academia.edu paper are. There currently is no appropriate way to add this to the article. You should proceed by getting this published in a peer-reviewed mathematics journal. If that happens, and then if others cite your paper to provide secondary sourcing, we might then be able to use it here. - [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 12:31, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
::Dear MrOllie,
::Thank you for your prompt response and guidance. I appreciate the clarification regarding Wikipedia’s policies on sourcing.
::While I understand the requirement for peer-reviewed publication, I’d like to emphasize that my method, developed in 1988, offers significant advantages in efficiency and simplicity for constructing odd-order magic squares of any size. As an independent researcher without formal academic affiliations, I’ve found it challenging to navigate the traditional peer-review process.
::Given these circumstances, I would greatly appreciate any advice you could offer:
::1.	Are there any mathematics journals you would recommend that are particularly open to contributions from independent researchers?
::2.	Are there any mathematicians among Wikipedia’s editors who might be willing to informally review my method or provide guidance on how to proceed?
::3.	Would it be appropriate to mention my method in the article’s “External links” section, perhaps under a subsection for “Other proposed methods”, with a clear disclaimer about its current publication status?
::4.	Are there any other avenues within Wikipedia’s guidelines that might allow for the inclusion of this information, given its potential value to those interested in magic squares?
::I’m committed to sharing this method with the mathematical community and am open to any suggestions you might have for making it more accessible while adhering to Wikipedia’s standards.
::Thank you again for your time and consideration. I look forward to your insights on how best to proceed. [[User:Mamzeris|Mamzeris]] ([[User talk:Mamzeris|talk]]) 12:46, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
:::You should know that using AI chatbot output on Wikipedia talk pages is considered to be quite rude. You should write in your own words or not at all. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 12:52, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Hi MrOllie,
::::Sorry about using AI to help me structure my last response without mentioning it. I didn’t realize it might be a problem for Wikipedia talk pages. I appreciate you pointing that out.
::::Just to be clear, I did use an AI tool to help me structure and phrase my thoughts about my magic square method because I sometimes find Ai's assistance useful to express myself in English. But the ideas and content are completely my own.
::::From now on, I’ll write everything myself without AI help. I really just want to figure out how to share my work on my magic square method within Wikipedia’s rules. As an independent researcher, could you advise me on the best way to go about this?
::::Thanks for your patience and understanding! [[User:Mamzeris|Mamzeris]] ([[User talk:Mamzeris|talk]]) 13:08, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::There is no way to share your work here - we have policies that are specifically against this, see [[WP:SOAPBOX]] and [[Wikipedia:No original research]]. There is no best way to go about this, this is simply not what Wikipedia is for. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 13:21, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::Dear MrOllie, Thanks for clarifying the policies and for your time replying to me. [[User:Mamzeris|Mamzeris]] ([[User talk:Mamzeris|talk]]) 13:33, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::: I agree that "Method of algebra" section is not a routine calculation.  It needs a reference if it is to be in the article. [[User:Bubba73|Bubba73]] <sup>[[User talk:Bubba73|You talkin' to me?]]</sup> 01:07, 19 May 2025 (UTC)