View source for Talk:List of state routes in Washington

{{ArticleHistory
|action1=FLC
|action1date=06:09, 13 April 2008
|action1link=Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of state highways in Washington/archive1
|action1result=not promoted
|action1oldid=201976189
|currentstatus=FFLC
}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=List|
{{WikiProject U.S. Roads|state=WA|class=List|importance=High}}
{{WikiProject United States|importance=high|WA=yes|WA-importance=high||EastWa=yes}}
}}
 
==Original routes==
From a 1925 map:
;WASHINGTON STATE HIGHWAYS
;;PRIMARY HIGHWAYS
*1 [[Pacific Highway (Oregon)|Pacific Highway]] Oregon (Portland)-British Columbia (Blaine)
*2 [[Sunset Highway]] Seattle?-Idaho (Spokane Bridge)
*3 [[Inland Empire Highway]] Teanaway-British Columbia (Laurier)
*5 [[National Park Highway (Washington)|National Park Highway System]] Seattle-Yakima, west of Ethel-east of Mt. Rainier, Kosmos-Tacoma
*6 [[Pend Oreille Highway]] Spokane-British Columbia (north of Metaline Falls)
*7 [[North Central Highway]] Ellensburg-Davenport
*8 [[North Bank Highway]] Vancouver-Buena? Zillah?
*9 [[Olympic Highway]] Olympia-west of Olympia (loop)
*10 [[Chelan and Okanogan Highway]] Quincy-British Columbia (north of Oroville)
*11 [[Central Washington Highway]] Pasco-west of Spokane
*12 [[Ocean Beach Highway]] Kelso-Chehalis, northwest of Naselle-Oregon (Astoria)
*13 [[Willapa-Grays Harbor Highway]] Raymond-east of Aberdeen
*14 [[Navy Yard Highway]] south of Potlatch-Harper?
*15 [[Inland Empire Highway Eastern Route]] Idaho (Lewiston)-Malden
;;SECONDARY HIGHWAYS
*4 [[Tonasket-San Poil Highway]] Tonasket-Wilbur
*21 State Road No. 21 Charleston-Port Gamble? Kingston?
*22 State Road No. 22 Davenport-Kettle Falls
*23 [[Methow Valley Highway]] southwest of Pateros-Ruby?
*24 [[Cascade Wagon Road]] Marbremount?-Twisp?
A few more and details at [http://web.archive.org/web/20040701231533/http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/hq/library/History/page10.htm] and of course [http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/hwysofwastate/index.html]

==Beach driving==
I can't find an "official citation" I'll look for one later, but this shows up on a simple google search [http://www.funbeach.com/attractions/beachsafety/index.html#drive].

I have a few pics of beach "street signs" but they are too foggy to read, and plenty of pics of my car sitting on the beach, but that isn't a cite.  I'll find a WSDOT page later, because they used to have a good one about it. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 08:45, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Here we go: 
*Beaches are public highways, RCW 79A.05.693 [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=79A.05.693]
*Parts of beaches are reserved for pedestrians certain parts of the year, 79A.05.655. [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=79A.05.655].

There is still a better WSDOT page. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 08:59, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

:Hmmm, a WSDOT reference would be better - the law says nothing about them being state highways, just public highways. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]] - <small>[[User:SPUI/SFD|don't use sorted stub templates!]]</small>) 09:47, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
::public highway = state highway.  cite from ocean shores police dept [http://www.osgov.com/police/beachsafety.html]. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 19:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
:::[http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/2005-06/Htm/Bills/Senate%20Bills/5503.htm "(b) "Public highway" means the entire width between the boundary lines of every way publicly maintained when any part is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel."] [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=81.80.010 "Public highway" means every street, road, or highway in this state.] --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]] - <small>[[User:SPUI/SFD|don't use sorted stub templates!]]</small>) 19:25, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

==Massive change to list==
Why was this list changed to link to a whole bunch of redirects? What's more, this is starting to resemble the fiasco that happened in California. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]]) ''' 20:57, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
:Because those are the correct names. They will be moved there eventually. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]] - <small>[[User:SPUI/SFD|don't use sorted stub templates!]]</small>) 21:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
::Add this to the med cabal case. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]]) ''' 21:05, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
:::Hahaha, you're just looking for anything to use against me. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]] - <small>[[User:SPUI/SFD|don't use sorted stub templates!]]</small>) 21:08, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
::::I've found plenty at CA. I don't need this to make a case. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]]) ''' 21:12, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
::As someone who lives here, in addition to your citation of the RCW, I can verify they are indeed ''always'' called "State Route XX" (and more often, but informally, "SR XX") and '''never''' "Washington State Route XX". Once the articles are all moved, the redirects won't be an issue. —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 05:01, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
:::Internationally they are "Washington State Route x".{{Talkfact}} Also, SPUI needs to gain consensus for these mass moves. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]]) ''' 05:03, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
::::Hang on.. he needs consensus for '''correcting the articles'''? So if an article about a President has the wrong birthdate, and SPUI has a source for the correct date, he needs to gain consensus for the change before he can make it? And what's this "internationally" deal? Do you have a source that overrides what Washington state (and Washington media, and Washington locals) call their state routes/etc? —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 05:09, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::No but SPUI needs consensus for 300 page moves, don't you think? Especially when people oppose them and revet them back. Specifically, [[WP:AN/I]] has now placed a highway page move ban on all of us for this massive edit warring. We've discussed at [[WP:NC/NH]] and SPUI has no consensus. We've had discussions regarding the infobox at [[WT:CASH]] and SPUI has lost. We've tried mediation and SPUI does not want to cooperate. We've filed an RFC and so far SPUI does not want to either. You get the picture? --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]]) ''' 05:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::Not if he's moving the pages to the correct names (and taking into account Wikipedia guidelines for disambiguation per the Manual of Style). Unless your position is that a consensus of people can, for example, have George W. Bush's birthdate changed to the wrong date in the face of evidence/proof indicating it's wrong. Also, please don't see debates as "win" or "lose"; that's when you lose sight of what really matters here: making sure Wikipedia is '''correct''' (and regarding the MoS concerns, consistant). And back to consensus for page moves; if page moves were such a huge problem, I imagine the facility would be restricted to sysops (in other words: regular editors wouldn't be able to do it if it wasn't supposed to be doable). —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 05:28, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Specifically, people disagree that they are called "State Route x (Washington)". Read my response to SPUI's RFC in a few minutes. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]]) ''' 05:33, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::::He is not moving them to the correct names. Under the law, [[Image:WA-3.svg|20px]] is called "state route '''number''' 3."[http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=47.17.010] SPUI is full of reasons why this correct name is not actually the ''correct'' correct name, but regardless of which side you come down on it is clear that the question of what constitutes the "correct" name does not have a clearly and unambiguously right answer. Moreover, "correct" isn't even the standard to be applying here; [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)|naming conventions (common names)]] is, and I would suggest that the average user is much more likely to search on "Washington State Route 3" than on "State Route 3 (Washington)." Because there is in fact ''no'' definitively "correct" answer either way, any change in the convention is subject to consensus... so why are you seeking to exempt SPUI, alone among the 1,000,000+ registered Wikipedians, from the process? --[[User:PHenry|phh]] 05:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Stop confusing the issue. The laws use "state route number X" but WSDOT uses "State Route X" or "SR X". --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]] - <small>[[User:SPUI/SFD|don't use sorted stub templates!]]</small>) 07:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::WSDOT doesn't own the highways, or create them. The DOT can use whatever jargon it wants to refer to them, but that does not make it "correct" if it doesn't align with the law. ''You'' are the one who is confusing the issue. --[[User:PHenry|phh]] 14:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::WSDOT maintains, manages and signs the highways. They also ''de facto'' create them - if they were to post a route that's not defined by law, the legislature can't go out and remove the signs. (This does happen with some spurs and business routes.) "state route number X", "state route no. X" and "state route X" are equivalent, and there's one that's clearly used regularly. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]] - <small>[[User:SPUI/SFD|don't use sorted stub templates!]]</small>) 19:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Protection requested.  50+ reversions this month is a bit much; I think a cool-down period is in order.  I don't care either way which syntax is used for routes, but having this constantly appear at the top of my watchlist is kind of silly. [[User:Travisl|Travisl]] 23:49, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Any chance everyone here could agree to stop the silly revert war until a consensus is reached?  There are obviously two conflicting opinions here, but is there some reason discussion won't work?  Constant reverts certainly don't make things enjoyable for anyone here. .:.[[User:Jareth|Jareth]].:. <sup>[[User_talk:Jareth|babelfish]]</sup> 06:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

:Since I saw the protection request, I've gone ahead and protected the article due to the constant edit warring.  Has anyone here tried any dispute resolution?  I didn't see an RfC for the article (my internet connection is acting funny at the moment though, so it wasn't a thorough look) -- would that be a good place to start? .:.[[User:Jareth|Jareth]].:. <sup>[[User_talk:Jareth|babelfish]]</sup> 07:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

::We've tried discussion, mediation, user RFC, everything. The other side just doesn't understand naming conventions. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/SPUI|C]] - [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/SPUI|RFC]] - <small>[[User:SPUI/Curpsbot|Curpsbot problems]]</small>) 11:29, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

::SPUI's hostility toward any potential solution that differs from his personal preference in any way is amply documented [[Talk:California State Route 2#Requested move|here]], [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions/Numbered highways|here]], [[Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-03-12 U.S. Roads|here]], [[User talk:SPUI#Unblocking|here]], [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive84#User SPUI has been blocked by a bot (page moves)|here]], [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/SPUI|here]], and in many other places I don't have the time to look up at the moment. --<span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">[[User:PHenry|phh]]&nbsp;(<sup>[[User talk:PHenry|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/PHenry|c]]</sub>)</span> 12:58, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

:::Make that "hostility towards the WRONG solution" and you're spot on. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/SPUI|C]] - [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/SPUI|RFC]] - <small>[[User:SPUI/Curpsbot|Curpsbot problems]]</small>) 14:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

::::I rest my case. --<span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">[[User:PHenry|phh]]&nbsp;(<sup>[[User talk:PHenry|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/PHenry|c]]</sub>)</span> 15:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::Does this mean you'll stop revert warring? If so, thanks, glad we got this worked out. —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 15:46, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

:::We have standard naming conventions that articles should follow (especially for the case of disambiguation). Until there's a consensus to '''override''' these standards, we should follow them. SPUI isn't trying to force his "personal preference", he's trying to force the standard naming convention that the community has decided we should use (I note that [[WP:NC/NH]] did not result in a uniform naming convention standard for highways; it only agreed that each highway system should be handled on a case by case basis). —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 14:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

::::You're simply wrong. [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)]] is really quite clear: 

::::{{"|When choosing a name for a page ask yourself: What word would the average user of the Wikipedia put into the search engine?}}

::::Rationale: 
::::{{"|…We want to maximize the incidence that people who make a link guessing the article name, guess correctly; people guessing a different name may think there is no article yet, which may cause duplication. Using a full formal name requires people to know that name, and to type more.}}

::::And in fact, the page is full of examples—I count at least 13—where the common name is favored over a more "correct" version. 

::::So take an average user, selected at random from the million-plus user base of English Wikipedia. Inform the user that there is a state highway in California that has been assigned the number 7, and ask her to locate the article on the subject. What will she type into the search box? I submit that in the vast majority of cases, she is going to type either "california state highway 7" or "california state route 7". If she is a moron or perhaps a crazy person, she might type "route 7", but no rational person is going to believe that that is the best way to reach an article on a local highway in California. ''If'' she is familiar with the Wikipedia disambiguation guidelines, and ''if'' she believes that "route 7" is likely to be a popular enough search term to warrant disambiguation, she ''might'' go out of her way to type "state highway 7 (california)" or "state route 7 (california)". What percentage of users is likely to do that? My guess: it's pretty small. [[Wikipedia:Use common sense|Use common sense]].

::::So even if we concede that you're right about the "correct" names, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Washington_State_Routes&diff=46280951&oldid=46278575 which you aren't], at best it's a case where two naming convention policies conflict with each other: [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)]] and [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (precision)]]. If you'd like to have a civil discussion about the applicability of each policy to this situation in the interests of finding a solution that everyone can live with, then let's go. But don't try to pretend that you have the only possible correct answer and that therefore no discussion is necessary. --<span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">[[User:PHenry|phh]]&nbsp;(<sup>[[User talk:PHenry|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/PHenry|c]]</sub>)</span> 18:13, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::The average visitor to Wikipedia would probably try "State Route XXX" first. Since many states have routes, those of course conflict. Proper disambiguation says we put the specifier in paranthesis (so "State Route 520 (Washington)"). That a visitor might try "Washing State Route XXX" after realizing that there are numerous overlaps for "State Route XXX" means, to me, that we should try and cover those via redirects (and SPUI has suggested this repeatedly; this covers the search field issue and also allows us to have the actual article at the correct name). But the correct name, the name used most commonly, is "SR XXX" (which is an abbreviation for "State Route XXX"). [[KING-TV|KING-5]] news calls them "SR XXX", the [[Seattle Post-Intelligencer]] call them "SR XXX", locals call them "SR XXX" (or more likely, just "Route XXX"), and I wouldn't be surprised to see media outside Washington call them "SR XXX in Washington state" or "State Route XXX in Washington state". —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 18:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

::::::I really, really doubt that someone in, say, Ohio would believe that, in a global encyclopedia, the most logical place to find an article about the ''state'' highway that runs past Microsoft in the ''state'' of ''Washington'' would be "State Route 520." But hey, at least this is an actual discussion! I could live with your proposed convention if it were arrived at through a process in which interested editors discussed the matter, civilly and assuming good faith, and determined it to be the best way to apply the binding [[WP:NC]] policy. What I don't like is being steamrolled by two people who've decided that no one else's opinions are valid because they've decided for themselves what's "correct," so everyone else can go fuck themselves. I resist that attitude, and if I have to keep resisting it, I will. Nonetheless, I'd very much prefer to resolve this some other way. --<span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">[[User:PHenry|phh]]&nbsp;(<sup>[[User talk:PHenry|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/PHenry|c]]</sub>)</span> 19:21, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

==News flash, SPUI was right all along==
<div style="background-color:#EFEFEF; border:1px solid black;" class="plainlinks">
Thank you for your e-mail to the Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) asking about the official name of a state highway in Washington State. I do apologize for the delay in responding to your e-mail.

The official name is State Route #, not Washington State Route #

Again, I am very sorry for this late response. We do appreciate you taking the time to write to us.


Kimberly Colburn Customer Service WSDOT Communications PO Box 47322 Olympia, WA 98504-7322 (360) 705-7438 hqcustomerservice@wsdot.wa.gov<sup>[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration&diff=52914744&oldid=52912654#Statement_by_User:Northenglish]</sup>
</div>
— <small>May. 13, '06</small> <span class="plainlinks" style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">'''[06:48] <[{{fullurl:user:freakofnurture}} freakofnur<sub>x</sub>ture][[special:contributions/freakofnurture||]][{{fullurl:user talk:freakofnurture|action=edit&section=new}} talk]>'''</span>

:From the other side of the pond, I'd say that what the DOT says is the thing to go with.  I'm all for the formal designation, over the informal, because if we are trying to educate, we should let people know what the correct name is, rather than reinforcing incorrect versions.  That's the whole point of redirects: people can type in something dumb, and they end up in the place with the correct name!  [[User:Noisy|Noisy]] | [[User talk:Noisy|Talk]] 16:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

::There's no danger of us reinforcing people using the incorrect name.  "State Route XXX" is the correct way for a person ''inside'' the state of Washington to refer to a state route ''inside'' the state of Washington.  "Washington State Route XXX" is the way many people ''outside'' the state of Washington to refer to such a route.  I would venture to guess that the '''''vast''''' majority of Wikipedia users are outside the state of Washington, so let's use that name, all right?
::"Washington State Route XXX" is not an ''incorrect'' name, it is a sort of disambiguation.  And parentheses '''''are not''''' the only way to disambiguate on Wikipedia.  This has already been discussed ''ad nauseum'' at the Arbcom case Freakofnurture took the above e-mail from, as well as [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_California_State_Highways]].
::In other words...
::*''News Flash: We already knew what the correct name for the road was; that doesn't necessarily mean it's the correct name for the article.''
::*''Your contribution to the move warring was unnecessary, unwarranted, and unwelcome.''
::*''We're in Arbcom, we've got people trying to help us solve this issue.  '''For God's sake''', can't we just hold back until this is done?''
::-- [[User:Northenglish|Northenglish]] 21:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

His name really is [[Samuel Clemens]] but he is at [[Mark Twain]]. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]]) ''' 22:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

:Strawman. The most common name is not "Washington State Route X". --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/SPUI|C]] - [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/SPUI|RFC]]) 01:46, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

::It is everywhere outside the state of Washington.  Please don't say I need {{tl|fact}}.  Be honest with me for a second.  What state are you from?  Assuming it's not Missouri, what would you call the road from Hermitage to Lebanon that carries [[Image:M0-64.svg|23px]] signs?  I would call it "''Missouri'' State Highway 64", and I'm assuming Rschen, PHenry, and others would as well.  That's what we mean by common names.  I'm not in anyway trying to say that it's more ''common'' or more ''correct'' than simply "State Highway 64".  [[WP:D]] is clear; parentheses are not the only way to disambiguate.  "When there is another word (such as Cheque instead of Check) or '''''more complete name''''' that is equally clear (such as Titan rocket), that should be used."  These names aren't more common or more correct, but they're far from uncommon and incorrect... and they '''are''' more ''complete'', thus as per [[WP:D]] we should use the more complete names such as [[Washington State Route 302]], [[California State Route 1]], and [[Missouri State Highway 64]]. -- [[User:Northenglish|Northenglish]] 18:19, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

:::You're dead wrong - see [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Missouri+State+Highway+64%22&btnG=Google+Search]. No matches outside Wikipedia. These full names are not "more complete", just plain incorrect. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/SPUI|C]]) 22:55, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

::::According to the [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=47.17 Revised Code of Washington], all of the state routes are in the format: State Route Number XX. Neither Washington State Route XX nor State Route XX (Washington) is technically correct.  I've never heard anyone call highway 99 "Washington State Route 99," but I have heard it called State Route 99. [[User:Sonic3KMaster|<span style="color:#0099FF;">'''Sonic'''</span><span style="color:#CC0033;">'''3K'''</span><span style="color:#0099FF;">'''Master'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sonic3KMaster|<span style="color:#00CC66;">''(talk)''</span>]]</sup> 07:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::Your comment says that you misunderstand disambiguation - an article name of "State Route 99 (Washington)" means exactly what you say - that it is called "State Route 99". --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/SPUI|C]]) 06:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

::::Yes, SPUI, I see the search results.  But I'm not dead wrong.  I like how you conveniently failed to answer my question.  What would ''you'', as someone who I assume lives outside Missouri (I chose Missouri randomly), call [[Image:Missouri 64.PNG|23px]]?  Try searching google for ''"state highway 64 in missouri"'' or ''"missouri's state highway 64"''.  You get ''nothing'', not even inside Wikipedia.  Now do a search for ''missouri "state highway 64"''.  Oh, of course you're going to get 11,000 hits, but have you read what I wrote on Arbcom?  A quick scan of the first four pages of results shows that every one of them is either (a) about a different State Highway 64 or (b) from a site that is about Missouri.
::::The question here is not what do people inside a certain state call their own state route.  Wikipedia is for a global audience.  In titling our articles, we have the unique task of figuring out what to call a state highway without having defined the state first.
::::Imagine this scenario.  Two hikers meet up in Mt. Hood National Forest.  It's in Oregon, but it's quite close to Washington, and neither knows which state the other is from.  One hiker wants to tell the other that he found a nice hiking spot along [[Image:WA-4.svg|23px]].  (Imagine for a moment that there is a [[Image:OR4.png|23px]] somewhere in the state, although even if there weren't, specification might still be necessary.)  How would this hiker both refer to the route and the state?  There are three ways I can think of, and since you love Google so much, here are their search results, too.
::::*"Washington State Route 4" '''28''', 16 of which are not from Wikipedia or a mirror.
::::*"State Route 4 in Washington" '''4'''
::::*"Washington's State Route 4" '''0'''
::::Like it or not, people '''do''' call it that. -- [[User:Northenglish|Northenglish]] 00:47, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::Your comment says that you misunderstand disambiguation - an article name of "State Route 4 (Washington)" means that it is called "State Route 4". --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/SPUI|C]]) 06:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::Attempting to reason with SPUI is not a productive use of anyone's time. <span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">—[[User:PHenry|phh]]&nbsp;(<sup>[[User talk:PHenry|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/PHenry|c]]</sub>)</span> 17:46, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Going by what the RCW says seems even more incorrect.  Sonic3KMaster's link says that it should be called "State Route Number 99".  I don't know of anyone who uses the word "number" when they're talking about a state route in the state.  Anecdotally, most people I know just call it "highway 99" or "highway 16" or "highway 512".
:::::::Incidentally, I needed to find the wiki page for US-180 to add a photo a couple days ago.  I'm fairly new to this, so I searched for "US Highway 180" and had a heck of a time tracking it down (eventually I made it to [[U.S. Route 180]], but only after I picked a different US highway page, hit its redirect, and then edited its URL to be 180).  As long as there's enough redirects, I don't much care what we end up calling WA SR-XX, as long as it's consistent. [[User:Travisl|Travisl]] 23:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::Well, that'll teach me.  I wrote a big long response, and it didn't show up.  I must have just looked at the preview and not made sure I actually saved it.  Anyway...
::::::''Holy copy and paste, Batman!''  Would someone mind pointing out to me where in my previous post I said ''anything'' about parenthetical disambiguation that would lead SPUI to believe I "misunderstand" it.  Unlike my previous posts, not once did I mention anything about parentheses or articles titled "State Route 4 (Washington)".  The purpose of my previous post was not to debate disambiguation methods, rather it was to show SPUI through reason (something I will continue to do, PHenry, fruitless or not) that people do call these roads "Washington State Route XX" and it is a valid, '''more complete''' name.  Perhaps SPUI's misunderstanding came from my statement: "The question here is not what do people inside a certain state call their own state route.  Wikipedia is for a global audience.  In titling our articles, we have the unique task of figuring out what to call a state highway without having defined the state first."  I suppose I shall try to explain that further.
::::::Wikipedia is a '''global''' encyclopedia.  This means that we are not concerned with what the state of Washington calls their own state routes; we are concerned with what the ''globe'' calls them.  The official name does matter, particularly when determining whether to title the articles "State Route" or "State Highway" or "State Road" or something else entirely, but it does not end at the official name.  Let's take PHenry's [[Charles I]] example from our debate on [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject California State Highways]], and pretend for a moment with me that we're talking about living kings, although it truly doesn't matter.  A peasant in England would undoubtedly refer to his king as simply Charles I, just as a peasant in Spain would refer to ''his'' king as simply Charles I.  According to your logic, SPUI, we would title these articles [[Charles I (England)]] and [[Charles I (Spain)]], since that is what people in those countries call their own kings.  (Notice how I understand perfectly well what disambiguation means.)  But that's not what these articles are titled.  Why not?  Well, the English subject would refer to the Spanish king by the '''more complete''' name of Charles I of Spain, just as the Spanish subject would refer to the English king by the '''more complete''' name of Charles I of England, in order to disambiguate from their own kings.  Furthermore, someone from neutral Australia would refer to both kings by their '''more complete''' names to disambiguate them from each other, since if they said just "Charles I", it would not be clear which country they were talking about.  Here on Wikipedia, we use the global, more complete names.
::::::The global, more complete name for [[Image:WA-4.svg|23px]] ''is'' "Washington State Route 4".  The reason search results for phrases like ''"washington state route"'' are so much lower than ''washington "state route"'' is because people rarely have to refer to a state route without it already being clear what state they are talking about, but this exactly what one has to do when titling an article in a '''global encyclopedia'''.  There are still plenty of search results to show that it is a valid, '''more complete''' name.  I apologize for not linking to my search results in my previous post, but here are two I found particularly interesting: [http://www.nps.gov/lewi/html/visiting.html from the National Park Service] and [http://www.fws.gov/willapa/WillapaNWR/directions.html from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service], two federal government agencies.
::::::Did you notice how Travisl said "WA SR-XX" at the end of his post?  Short for Washington State Route?
::::::I noticed how you ''still'' have conveniently failed to answer my question.  What would ''you'' call [[Image:Missouri 64.PNG|23px]]?
::::::As proof that I '''do''' understand disambiguation, let me explain it to you.  [[WP:D]] outlines a variety of different methods for disambiguation.  Parenthetical disambiguation in the form of ''A (B)'' does, in fact, refer to a topic whose proper name is ''A'', and is used when there is another topic called ''A'' that as PHenry explained (also on the [[WP:CASH]] talk page) has equal right to the name ''A'', and would be disambiguated with the form ''A (C)''.  Another way of stating this "equal right" theory is that when a user types ''A'' into the search box, there's a fairly equal chance they would be searching for ''A (B)'' or ''A (C)'', and further, when a user is searching for ''A (B)'' or ''A (C)'' they would be likely to type ''A'' into the search box.  But keep in mind that parentheses are '''not''' the only way to disambiguate according to [[WP:D]].  WP:D also outlines the '''more complete''' names method, and clearly states that it should be used when possible, instead of parentheses.  More complete names, in this case disambiguation of the form ''B A'', are used when even though simply ''A'' is the proper name, a user is more likely to type ''B A'' into the search box because he or she is already aware of the need for disambiguation.
::::::-- [[User:Northenglish|Northenglish]] 22:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

== Notes for if we ever get this page unprotected. ==

*The "eastern strip" of two-digit highways should start at U.S. 97, not the Columbia River.  SR 22 is entirely east of US 97 and west of the Columbia River, as is about half of SR 24.
*In the second paragraph of the "Numbering Pattern" section, I propose we use the phrase "child route" instead of spur route, in order to differentiate between (for example) SR 160 and SR 16 Spur.
*US 101 Alternate is a current route, not former/proposed.  It's a short route near Ilwaco, bypassing the section of 101 that runs west to Long Beach and back.
*SR 168 is listed under current routes when it is actually proposed (as is SR 704).
*I propose we list SRs 161, 162, 164, 165, 167, 168, and 169 as children of SR 410 (functionally SR 16) instead of directly children of SR 16, since none of them connect to SR 16 and they all connect to SR 410. [http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/hwysofwastate/sr016.html Highways of Washington State] follows this logic as well.
*SR 397 is listed as a child of US 95; it should be listed as a child of US 395.

Just some thoughts. -- [[User:Northenglish|Northenglish]] 22:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

== Protection ==
Do you guys feel like you are ready for unprotection or not? --[[User:Woohookitty|''Woohookitty'']]<sup>[[User talk:Woohookitty|(meow)]]</sup> 11:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
:Not until a decision on naming convention has been made one way or the other, IMHO. -- [[User:Northenglish|Northenglish]] 13:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

: Oh that's ridiculous.  This page has been protected for weeks and weeks and weeks.  I'm unprotecting and if people start being naughty they'll just have to take the consequences. --[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]] 00:38, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Maturity is lacking from the people involved in the move war, and now the arbitrators and admins, too.  Why was it necessary to call me/what I said "ridiculous"?  I didn't change any of the links that were already there, except for one that mistakenly linked to [[State Route 410 (California)]].  I did, however, put my new links at [[Washington State Route 410]] because that is where I humbly believe they should be.  The text of the article is not an issue because I piped them.  Why was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Washington_State_Routes&diff=57297288&oldid=57283975 this edit] necessary?  To quote SPUI, redirects are cheap. -- [[User:Northenglish|Northenglish]] 20:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== [[Washington State Route 237|SR 237]] ==

SR 237 was originally numbered SR 537 when the segment of SR 20 west of the current junction with SR 536 was part of SR 536.  When the North Cascades Highway was completed, the western segment SR 536 was renumbered as an extension of SR 20, and SR 537 was renumbered to SR 237, as it no longer connected with a 5XX route, and did connect with SR 20.  The 3 was kept to minimize confusion. -- [[User:Northenglish|Northenglish]] 22:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

== Duplication ==

Due to the controversy over the state route table at [[List of Routes in Vermont]], I am proposing three designs which should simplify the page and bring it up to par per [[WP:MS]]. (This is why there is nothing listed under state routes at the moment.) The goal is to enhance readability to not only "roadgeeks", but to every user that may or may not be familar with the terminology. See [[User:Seicer/sandbox1|my sandbox]] for the designs and please comment here on what design you would like to see, or if there can be any improvements to the existing set. Thanks! [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 15:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
:I like 1A -- the graphics add a lot to the usability of the table.  If there was some way to go with the graphics only, no text, I think that'd be a good option, as well.

:Option 2 is no good -- I can't tell whether I should be reading across the rows to see the routes in order, or down the columns. [[User:Travisl|Travisl]] 15:50, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

:: After talking to [[User:Atanamir‎|Atanamir]], the only way to go about making the images clickable to the state route would to use some complex coding that would grossly infltate the size of the page. If you click on the image, it gives a listing of where the graphic is used, but its at the bottom and out-of-sight. I personally like Design 1, but Design 1A is also acceptable to me as well. [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 16:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

::: I implemented it on [[List of Routes in Vermont]] to gauge reaction, since 1A came out better than I had expected in my sandbox. What do you think of that? The shields in the 100+ routes for Vermont were a bit more squashed than the sub-100 because of their widths but it didn't impact it as great as I would have thought. [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 16:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The issue here on the Washington page would be to keep it so that the routes are listed by their parent route (all the 1XX's under 101, all the 5XX's under I-5, etc.) instead of in numerical order.  Just something to keep in mind. -- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 22:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

:<s>Right after I posted that, I realized that I don't have a problem with reordering them numerically -- although I'd still wait until other users respond, as they might. -- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 22:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)</s>

::I am curious as to why that was done? I hadn't seen that on other state highway logs at the time (in the east) until I got to Washington. When I was originally making the list out in the original tables, I had most of them done, then realized that I was missing a lot of routes in between since it didn't fall numerically.

::I would suggest that it would be organized similar to other state route logs, such as [[List of Routes in Vermont]], in which the state routes are organized under four columns. I want to hear other opinions on this as well. [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 00:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

:::It wasn't done on other state route pages because Washington is one of only a few states that number their routes according to such a system.  Other states usually just number them sequentially and/or geographically.  If you look at the lists for U.S. ([[List of United States Numbered Highways]]) and Interstate highways ([[List of Interstate Highways|here]] and [[List of auxiliary Interstate Highways|here]]), they are listed in groups the way these Washington State Routes are because they have a similar (albeit opposite) numbering system. -- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 02:18, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: That's interesting. I guess the question that should be asked, is how the list should be organized. Is it better to use the unique Washington route list system, or number them sequentially? The latter is used on most other state route pages and, in my opinion, would provide uniformity by using it here as well. [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 02:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::But why should we provide uniformity with other states when the way Washington numbers their highways isn't uniform with those other states? -- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 19:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::: IMO, we should act on uniformity across the board in order to bring the average Joe the easiest method for finding a route. This may involve breaking the 'tradition' of this state highway log, but IMO, it would create a master plan for detailing how routes should be listed (numerically) versus something used for only one state. Unique or not, it can be confusing to "Roadgeeks" (such as myself) and probably others. [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 04:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::::But how does the current organization make it any more difficult to find a route?  Are you then proposing that we reorder [[List of auxiliary Interstate Highways]] so that it goes 105, 110, 115, 124, 126, etc.? (Note that I've struck through my original comment above.)  This isn't about the "tradition" on this page -- that's how they're numbered, so that's how they should be organized. -- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 04:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::::: Regardless of how it is organized in WDOT's books, a user should feel that he/she can browse the state highway pages and find uniformity in finding a state route. For instance, if a user is wanting to find SR 10, they should find it at the top of the route list, not buried half way down a page. At that point, they might just as well assume there is no SR 10. If there is a debate on this, perhaps we should conduct a poll and get some outside opinions on this matter to resolve the issue before a new log is implemented - in order to stave off any confusion? [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 04:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::I'm confused by your SR 10 example.  It's exactly where it should be -- after 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.  The one's that are slightly harder to find are the 3-digit ones, not the main ones.  However, the 3-digit ones are not hard to find at all either, as anyone who actually reads the introduction to the article will quickly become accustomed to the numbering system. -- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 19:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::: I suppose that is a reasonable, as long as there is a description to how Washington numbers their routes. Being an out-of-state guest here, I found it confusing since I skipped the intro and went straight down :) [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 18:20, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Just for kicks, I have a list of the routes in numerical order (minus the bannered routes) [[User:Northenglish/Sandbox2|here]].  Be warned that it's totally unreadable -- I only created it for my own reference while working on the infoboxes. -- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 04:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

: haha. I [[User:Seicer/sandbox|tried]] and I failed! [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 04:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

== State Route Templates ==

I've made two templates for State Routes associated with I-5 and US-101.  I think but they would be helpful on the State Route pages, but are they unnecessary?

{| class=wikitable style="margin:auto"
![[Image:US 101.svg|25px]]
!{{ed right|US 101|}}[[List of Washington State Routes|Washington State Routes]] related to [[U.S. Route 101|U.S. Route 101]]
|-
|colspan=2 align=center|[[U.S. Route 101 Alternate (Washington)|U.S 101 Alternate]] - [[State Route 100 (Washington)|SR 100]] [[State Route 100 Spur (Washington)|(Spur)]] - [[State Route 102 (Washington)|SR 102]] - [[State Route 103 (Washington)|SR 103]] - [[State Route 104 (Washington)|SR 104]] - [[State Route 105 (Washington)|SR 105]] [[State Route 105 Spur (Washington)|(Spur)]] - [[State Route 106 (Washington)|SR 106]] - [[State Route 107 (Washington)|SR 107]] - [[State Route 108 (Washington)|SR 108]] - [[State Route 109 (Washington)|SR 109]] [[State Route 109 Spur (Washington)|(Spur)]]<br />[[State Route 110 (Washington)|SR 110]] [[State Route 110 Spur (Washington)|(Spur)]] - [[State Route 112 (Washington)|SR 112]] - [[State Route 113 (Washington)|SR 113]] - [[State Route 114 (Washington)|SR 114]] - [[State Route 115 (Washington)|SR 115]] - [[State Route 116 (Washington)|SR 116]] - [[State Route 117 (Washington)|SR 117]] - [[State Route 118 (Washington)|SR 118]]<br />Former or proposed State Routes: [[State Route 119 (Washington)|SR 119]] - [[State Route 111 (Washington)|SR 111]]
|}



{| class=wikitable style="margin:auto"
![[Image:I-5.svg|25px]]
!{{ed right|I 5|}}[[List of Washington State Routes|Washington State Routes]] related to [[Interstate 5|I-5]]
|-
|colspan=2 align=center|[[Interstate 205 (Oregon-Washington)|I-205]] - [[Interstate 405 (Washington)|I-405]] - [[Interstate 705|I-705]]<br>[[State Route 500 (Washington)|SR 500]] - [[State Route 501 (Washington)|SR 501]] - [[State Route 502 (Washington)|SR 502]] - [[State Route 503 (Washington)|SR 503]] [[State Route 503 Spur (Washington)|(Spur)]] - [[State Route 504 (Washington)|SR 504]] [[State Route 504 Spur (Washington)|(Spur)]] - [[State Route 505 (Washington)|SR 505]] - [[State Route 506 (Washington)|SR 506]] - [[State Route 507 (Washington)|SR 507]] - [[State Route 508 (Washington)|SR 508]] - [[State Route 509 (Washington)|SR 509]]<br>[[State Route 510 (Washington)|SR 510]] - [[State Route 512 (Washington)|SR 512]] - [[State Route 513 (Washington)|SR 513]] - [[State Route 515 (Washington)|SR 515]] - [[State Route 516 (Washington)|SR 516]] - [[State Route 518 (Washington)|SR 518]] - [[State Route 519 (Washington)|SR 519]]<br>[[State Route 520 (Washington)|SR 520]] - [[State Route 522 (Washington)|SR 522]] - [[State Route 523 (Washington)|SR 523]] - [[State Route 524 (Washington)|SR 524]] [[State Route 524 Spur (Washington)|(Spur)]] - [[State Route 525 (Washington)|SR 525]] [[State Route 525 Spur (Washington)|(Spur)]] - [[State Route 526 (Washington)|SR 526]] - [[State Route 527 (Washington)|SR 527]] - [[State Route 528 (Washington)|SR 528]] - [[State Route 529 (Washington)|SR 529]] [[State Route 529 Spur (Washington)|(Spur)]]<br>[[State Route 530 (Washington)|SR 530]] - [[State Route 531 (Washington)|SR 531]] - [[State Route 532 (Washington)|SR 532]] - [[State Route 534 (Washington)|SR 534]] - [[State Route 538 (Washington)|SR 538]] - [[State Route 539 (Washington)|SR 539]]<br>[[State Route 542 (Washington)|SR 542]] - [[State Route 543 (Washington)|SR 543]] - [[State Route 544 (Washington)|SR 544]] - [[State Route 546 (Washington)|SR 546]] - [[State Route 547 (Washington)|SR 547]] - [[State Route 548 (Washington)|SR 548]]<br />Former or proposed State Routes: [[Interstate 605|I-605]] - [[State Route 514 (Washington)|SR 514]] - [[State Route 517 (Washington)|SR 517]] - [[State Route 536 (Washington)|SR 536]] - [[State Route 537 (Washington)|SR 537]] - [[State Route 540 (Washington)|SR 540]]
|}

Questions and comments are greatly appreciated, thanks. [[User:Sonic3KMaster|<span style="color:#0099FF;">'''Sonic'''</span><span style="color:#CC0033;">'''3K'''</span><span style="color:#0099FF;">'''Master'''</span>]]<b><span style="color:#000000;">(鉄也)</span></b><sup>[[User talk:Sonic3KMaster|<span style="color:#00CC66;">''(talk)''</span>]]</sup> 19:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

:They are awesome, except for the obvious minor errors (509 and 510 typos in the first one; should be I-5 instead of I 5).
:Necessity is dependent on whether we reach a conclusion on whether we want to browse sequentially, or through the templates.  No such conclusion has been reached yet.
:Once change I'd like to see is to have separate lists for current and former routes -- list the current ones, then list the former ones -- rather than just an asterisk at the bottom. -- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 19:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

:I just made the template smaller, made it I-5, and fixed some typos (I wouldn't be surprised if there are still some, though) [[User:Sonic3KMaster|<span style="color:#0099FF;">'''Sonic'''</span><span style="color:#CC0033;">'''3K'''</span><span style="color:#0099FF;">'''Master'''</span>]]<b><span style="color:#000000;">(鉄也)</span></b><sup>[[User talk:Sonic3KMaster|<span style="color:#00CC66;">''(talk)''</span>]]</sup> 19:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

::To be honest, I preferred the larger version better.  Other minor gripes:
::*Typo in the 101 chart: should be 109 instead of a duplicated 107
::*I think it should be images for all or images for none (regarding the shield images for the I-X05 routes)
::-- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 19:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for being late to this, I've been out of town. I do enjoy this format, it makes the page more structured and clear. Could the widths be made consistent, such as at 90%? [[User:Seicer| '''<span style="color: #B33C1A; font: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 10px;">Seicer</span>''']] <small>([[User talk:Seicer|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Seicer|contribs]])</small> 18:18, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== Decision making time ==

If you have an opinion on the changes proposed in the above two sections, please vote in the poll on [[WT:WASH]]. -- [[User:Northenglish|'''NORTH''']] <sup>[[User talk:Northenglish|talk]]</sup> 21:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

== Bridges as highways ==

I don't get the section of bridges being part of the highway systems. Of course they are, right? And why list these obscure bridges instead of well-known ones such as Tacoma Narrows, Evergreen Point, Deception Pass or Squaw Creek? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:216.57.220.63|216.57.220.63]] ([[User talk:216.57.220.63|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/216.57.220.63|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:Agreed.  Deleted.  [[User:Travisl|Travisl]] 21:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

==Requested moves==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:polltop -->
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the proposal was '''moved'''. Classification and inclusion of different types of roads can be handled through the regular editing process. --[[User:BDD|BDD]] ([[User talk:BDD|talk]]) 19:25, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

* [[:List of state highways in Washington]] → {{no redirect|List of state routes in Washington}}
* [[:List of former state highways in Washington]] → {{no redirect|List of former state routes in Washington}}
– Per [[WP:USSH]] and the [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?Cite=47.17 Revised Code of Washington], highways maintained by the state of Washington (and WSDOT) are known as "state routes", not state highways. '''[[User:SounderBruce|<span style="background:#5d9731; color:white; padding:2px;">Sounder</span>]][[User talk:SounderBruce|<span style="background:#1047AB; color:white; padding:2px;">Bruce</span>]]''' 23:34, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
:*'''Support''' - Per nom. <span style="background:#00001A; padding:2px">'''[[User:Dough4872|<span style="color:#EEBB80;">Dough</span>]][[User talk:Dough4872|<span style="color:#EEBB80;">48</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dough4872|<span style="color:#EEBB80;">72</span>]]'''</span> 23:42, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
:*'''Support''' - per nom, with stipulation that all US routes and Interstate highways are removed from the table to make this a list of purely state routes (those should already be on the respective US and Interstate list pages anyway). -- <span style="background:#006A4D; padding:2px">'''[[User:Ljthefro|<span style="color:white;">LJ</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Ljthefro#top|<span style="color:white;">↗</span>]]'''</span> 02:06, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
:*'''Support'''  - Seeing as the Interstates and U.S. Routes are still maintained by the state, I would not be opposed to keeping them on the same list page. Perhaps redo the list to put them in different sections, though. Also an excuse to switch to the new {{tlx|routelist row}} templates! <big>[[User talk:TCN7JM|<span style="color:blue; font-family:Garamond;">T</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TCN7JM|<span style="color:red; font-family:Garamond;">C</span>]][[User:TCN7JM|<span style="color:gray; font-family:Garamond;">N7</span><span style="color:black; font-family:Garamond;">JM</span>]]</big> 18:36, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
:*'''Support''' &ndash; As long as the old names redirect to the new one. I also support the idea of making a new section for the Interstates and U.S. Routes. -[[User:DyluckTRocket|DyluckTRocket]] ([[User talk:DyluckTRocket|talk]]) 02:47, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
:*:I counted roughly 8 Interstates, 13 US routes, and 222 State routes. [[User:Apteva|Apteva]] ([[User talk:Apteva|talk]]) 03:40, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
:*'''Support'''. Absolutely. It's just plain not the correct name, either by law, or by usage. [[User:Vanisaac|Van]][[User talk:Vanisaac|Isaac]]<sub><small>[[WP:WikiProject Writing systems|WS]] [[WP:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology|Vex]]</small></sub><sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">[[Special:Contributions/Vanisaac|contribs]]</sup> 04:27, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:pollbottom -->