View source for Talk:Iron Chef America

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== Morimoto's actual win/loss record. ==

Mention should be made of [[Masaharu Morimoto]]'s 16-7-1 record on the original ''[[Iron Chef]]'', even if only as a footnote in the stats table. [[User:Sings-With-Spirits|Sings-With-Spirits]] ([[User talk:Sings-With-Spirits|talk]]) 02:20, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

== Subliminal McDonald's ad during show? ==

This was on the news...anybody know whether it is real? Should it be mentioned in the article?
--[[Special:Contributions/96.21.156.229|96.21.156.229]] ([[User talk:96.21.156.229|talk]]) 13:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

== Iron Chef Lagasse? ==

Watching last night's Iron Chef America Super Chef battle (with the White House garden theme), I noted Chef Lagasse's white jacket top during the judging segment said "Iron Chef Lagasse" on it. Is this jacket labeling in itself enough to elevate Chef Lagasse to Iron Chef status (akin to similar status as Wolfgang Puck)? For visual proof, see http://www.foodnetwork.com/super-chef-battle/video/index.html video at 0:24, a image in back of the White House, as well as http://img.foodnetwork.com/FOOD/2009/12/02/ica_super-chef-battle_emeril-lagasse_s4x3_lg.jpg [[User:Erpbridge|Erpbridge]] ([[User talk:Erpbridge|talk]]) 18:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
: He wore the full Iron Chef insignia and uniform last night, and other than Symon and Garces, the IC's aren't chosen by competition, just designated.  That makes him an Iron Chef in my book.  It needs to be written into the article pretty much as you describe -- as a one-night only appearance similar to Wolfgang Puck's.  I was planning to do it when I had enough time to write it carefully, but go for it if you'd care to! [[User:Drmargi|Drmargi]] ([[User talk:Drmargi|talk]]) 18:43, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
::Have at it... I don't think I'd be able to handle the wording well. I was just wondering because other than the visual references (which may be removed by food network in the future, so watch for the future referencing), he is only verbally described as Super Chef on the webpage, on the show, and in advertisements on television for the show.  [[User:Erpbridge|Erpbridge]] ([[User talk:Erpbridge|talk]]) 18:48, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
::: We can reference the episode if need be.  There is precedent for his being called an IC in Puck, and Psilakis, who cooked with Symon last week, work a black tunic with no insignia, so it's clear the designation was quite deliberate.  [[User:Drmargi|Drmargi]] ([[User talk:Drmargi|talk]]) 19:47, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't think you could call Lagasse an Iron Chef. The Chairman and the captions clearly identify him as a Super Chef; the costume detail may be a production error.[[User:PhantomObserver|PhantomObnserver|talk]] 18:34, 4 Feb 2010 (UTC)
: Trouble is, that's an assumption.  The Food Network page and his uniform identify him as an Iron Chef.  On the other hand, if you look at how he's presented in the article, at least what I've written (which I think is pretty much everything), it's reasonably clear this was a one-shot deal.  He's not in the records table, nor in the infobox; he just gets a mention in the narrative. --[[User:Drmargi|Drmargi]] ([[User talk:Drmargi|talk]]) 07:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

== The Super Chef Battle: Fruits and Vegetables ==

If we want to be accurate on this detail, one just needs to mention that the fruits and vegetables picked from the White House garden were delivered to a local food pantry.  The produce used in Kitchen Stadium in New York were replacements, possibly originating closer to New York.  However, honey (the only ingredient that does not spoil) was the one item that could be and was shipped to New York from the White House beehive.  (This issue started a controversy in the American political world, but I believe only the facts should be written and the politics be set aside.)  Both teams were only allowed to use the types and amount of produce they picked in the White House garden.  I remember Bobby Flay getting upset at Mario Batali for taking of both available colored cauliflowers.  Tape delay production likely prevented Food Network from shipping the produce from Washington.  After all, if you think about it, taking fruits and vegetables from the White House garden to New York City defeats the purpose of using locally grown produce.  [http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/ent/restaurants/reviews/stories/0114dnentironchef.7a6db154.html| Dallas Morning News]  [[User:DaDoc540|DaDoc540]] ([[User talk:DaDoc540|talk]]) 04:24, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
: This was widely publicized at the time, and I believe there is a note to that effect on the episodes page.  If not, it's easily added.  [[User:Drmargi|Drmargi]] ([[User talk:Drmargi|talk]]) 05:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

== Controversy about show buried in this article ==

This article could do with addressing the controversy regarding the staged nature of this show more directly.

There have been a number of reports about the staged nature of the production of this show, most aspects of which Food Network has eventually conceded to.  Some of these aspects are included in the article (e.g. ingredients known ahead, only one chef present etc.) but they are buried; the editing shows a favorable bias towards the show.  It does not take long researching the show to find many articles about the show and how the highly edited and staged production is not at all transparent to its viewers.  

Much of this controversy was "handled" by Food Network by admitting to it not being real, this article pretends as though it was always obvious this was the case (as does Food Network). I could imagine Food Network's PR wanting the page in its current state which I believe intentionally clouds the aspects of this show which are not real and its history.

My edit referencing the [http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-02-19/restaurants/iron-chef-boyardee/full Village Voice article] detailing the production of the show source was reverted twice by User:DrMargi.   The first revert cites a non-objective source (Ted Allen, Food Network), the second just seems to say it's factually incorrect.  VV is a 3rd party source with more legitimacy than a Food Network spokesperson. 

DrMargi, can we agree on some way to update the article to better surface the controversy regarding the show (that can be easily found from objective sources with some basic research)?  

While the wording can be changed, grouping together the information which makes clear the aspects of the show which are staged etc would make the article better reflect the history of the show, which is not nearly as clean as the article indicates.
Also, I was not able to find your claimed refutation of the VV article by Ted Allen, which I would like to read [despite this not being an objective source]. 

[[Special:Contributions/99.185.42.182|99.185.42.182]] ([[User talk:99.185.42.182|talk]]) 04:52, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

== Batali and Cora ==

A month ago, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Iron_Chef&diff=524442277&oldid=514994408 an edit] was made to the IC navigation template to show Batali and Cora as still Iron Chefs, saying that there was no sourcing for them having retired.  [[Cat Cora|Cora's]] own page lists her as an IC through 2012.  I'm pretty sure both are no longer IC, but we probably do need official sourcing.  Does anyone have any sourcing for either or both of them leaving the show? - [[User:TexasAndroid|TexasAndroid]] ([[User talk:TexasAndroid|talk]]) 21:12, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

: None, and I wish we did so they can be noted as retired.  Cora's article is no help; it has several errors that I spotted quickly. Batali quite obviously parted company with Food Network under not entirely good terms once his shows were canceled, and Cora is on Bravo now, so common sense tells us they've gone.  Sadly, common sense doesn't meet [[WP:VERIFY]].  --[[User:Drmargi|Drmargi]] ([[User talk:Drmargi|talk]]) 21:19, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
:: Hmm.  OTOH, it's verifiable that they are not currently on the show.  Whether or not they are officially "retired" is another matter.  Betali's article discusses his removal from the opening.  That's a fact that could likely be cited directly to the show itself.  Hmm..... - [[User:TexasAndroid|TexasAndroid]] ([[User talk:TexasAndroid|talk]]) 21:33, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
:: To add to the confusion, [[Alexandra Guarnaschelli]]'s page mentions in the lead that she is the only current female IC.  A fact which is only true if Cora is retired.  Sigh. - [[User:TexasAndroid|TexasAndroid]] ([[User talk:TexasAndroid|talk]]) 21:36, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
::: Hummm... Let me do a bit of reading, and we'll have a re-think.  Alex isn't an IC yet, technically, because she hadn't made her debut.  --[[User:Drmargi|Drmargi]] ([[User talk:Drmargi|talk]]) 00:54, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
:::: Less than 24 hours now, though. :) - [[User:TexasAndroid|TexasAndroid]] ([[User talk:TexasAndroid|talk]]) 06:04, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

== BOM? ==

If you're going to use acronyms in the article, can we please make sure to define those acronyms?

[[Special:Contributions/38.73.140.135|38.73.140.135]] ([[User talk:38.73.140.135|talk]]) 17:38, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

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== Tenses wrong ==

The program has, alas, been off the air for several years, but the article still has everything in the present tense.  Somebody needs to go through this and adjust the tenses for the fact that the program's run has ended.  I don't have the time, or I'd do it myself.  [[User:JDZeff|JDZeff]] ([[User talk:JDZeff|talk]]) 21:15, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

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== Connection to Iron Chef USA ==

This discussion addresses an issue on multiple pages, relating to this show.  I have reverted the inclusion of [[Iron Chef USA]], which is an earlier adaptation of the Japanese series [[Iron Chef]] as a related series.  Although the show is related to the original program, it was produced for the now-defunct UPN by an entirely different production team, and failed after two episodes.  [[Iron Chef America]] was subsequently produced by and for Food Network, which also carried the original Japanese show, includes one of the original Japanese Iron Chefs, and is connected via two related characters, one on each show.  While there is a connection between Iron Chef USA and Iron Chef, and an obvious connection between Iron Chef America, and the subsequent [[Next Iron Chef]], [[Iron Chef Gauntlet]] and [[Iron Chef Showdown]], there is no connection between Iron Chef USA and any of the American shows produced by Food Network, they are not part of some imaginary "Iron Chef family" (whatever that might be) cited in an edit summary, and Iron Chef USA should not be included as a related show.  --<span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<span style="color:blue;">Dr.</span><span style="color:red;">Margi</span></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 09:05, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

:They are all licensed productions and adaptations of the Japanese original, so whatever production company or network they come from, they are ultimately all derivatives of the Japanese show, and thus related. It is simple and as clear as the name they chose for the show, "Iron Chef". All of them, the Vietnamese, the Indonesian, the various ones in the U.S. , are all related to the Japanese show. The same as the various Idol series, Voice series, Worst Driver series, Ninja Warrior series, Gladiators series. Or how Australian ''60 Minutes'' is related to the U.S. original ''60 Minutes''. Or the relationship between the Japanese "Ringu" novel, manga, TV show, films, and the U.S. films. Or how the French film "Cage aux Poules" is related to the U.S. film "Birdcage".  -- [[Special:Contributions/70.51.45.76|70.51.45.76]] ([[User talk:70.51.45.76|talk]]) 07:20, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

:: SanAnMan, no one is questioning that they are related to the Japanese show. The material point, which you seem to miss whether editing signed in or as an IP, is that the UPN show and the Food Network shows are not related to each other.  They simply come from a common origin, as do the various international iterations, the exception being [[Iron Chef UK]], which is part of the Food Network canon.  There's a big difference between being related to one another, and having a common origin, and I see nothing that establishes the FN and UPN shows are related to one another.  --<span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<span style="color:blue;">Dr.</span><span style="color:red;">Margi</span></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 09:07, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
:::{{ping|SanAnMan}}, is there any [[WP:V|verifiable evidence]] that these programs fix the [[Template:Infobox television/doc#Parameters|infobox criteria]] for inclusion as "related", which requires that related articles be "remakes, spin-offs, adaptations for different audiences, etc."? A direct link needs to be shown and, in the case of this article, I don't see it. From what I can make out, Iron Chef USA was made by one company for one network and failed. Then, this program was made by a different company for a different network based on the concept only. That's not a direct link. --[[User:AussieLegend|'''<span style="color:#008751;">Aussie</span><span style="color:#fcd116;">Legend</span>''']] ([[User talk:AussieLegend#top|<big>✉</big>]]) 12:59, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
:::: Thank you for bringing up the infobox criteria.  That solidifies my point:  these shows, while having a common origin in the original Japanese Iron Chef, are not related to each other (i.e. one is not a spin-off of the other), and thus are not related to each other.  The criteria say nothing about being part of some sort of "family" or anything similar.  Jeez, by that standard, you'd have to list every English-language adaptation.  --<span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<span style="color:blue;">Dr.</span><span style="color:red;">Margi</span></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 17:54, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

:I am not {{user|SanAnMan}} ; I saw your comment saying that things are not related, and I stated that they are licensed derivatives. You did not address your comment to [[user:SanAnMan]]; so you should expect anyone happening onto your comment to reply. --  [[Special:Contributions/70.51.45.76|70.51.45.76]] ([[User talk:70.51.45.76|talk]]) 03:29, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

:Just to clarify and confirm, [[User talk:70.51.45.76]] is not my IP or account, I have not done any type of IP-only editing (at least on purpose) for years now. Plus, a simple WHOIS lookup shows that IP in Canada, and I am proud to call San Antonio, TX my home. I don't sock and I really don't appreciate in the least being implied of it. So yeah, we're not the same. But, I do happen to agree with that editor's opinions. Iron Chef USA was a sequel of the original Iron Chef. That has been accepted as fact. Iron Chef America is also a sequel to the original Iron Chef. That is also accepted as fact. Simple correlation states that if A is related to B, and A is related to C, that somehow B must be related to C. In addition, Iron Chef USA has been listed in the infobox of the ICA article as a sequel ever since [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iron_Chef_America&oldid=172173690 this edit from November 17, 2007]. So it seems like what you're trying to convince people is that for 10 years and literally hundreds of edits from hundreds of other independent editors (including multiple edits in that time frame by [[User:Drmargi]] I should note), the article has been wrong. I was trying to maintain what I saw as a status quo of the article that had been in existence for 10 years. Explain this please. - [[User:SanAnMan|SanAnMan]] ([[User talk:SanAnMan|talk]]) 14:41, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
::The infobox instructions require that to be related for the purposes of the infobox the program be a remake, spin-off, adaptation for different audiences, etc of the article's subject. That means that both Iron Chef USA and Iron Chef America might be related to the original Iron Chef, but since they are not remakes, spin-offs, adaptation for different audiences, etc of ''EACH OTHER'', they don't meet the criteria for being related to each other. That the edit has remained in the article for so long doesn't mean it's correct, it just means that nobody has picked up the error, which happens too often. --[[User:AussieLegend|'''<span style="color:#008751;">Aussie</span><span style="color:#fcd116;">Legend</span>''']] ([[User talk:AussieLegend#top|<big>✉</big>]]) 17:07, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
:: To tag on to what AussieLegend said:  first of all, a correlation is a mathematical relationship, so there is no "correlation" between the two shows, simple or otherwise.  Second of all, your relationship logic is faulty.  Just because A and C are each related to B does not by default make them related to one another.  Check some basic logic models and you'll see how that falls apart.  Moreover, [[Iron Chef Showdown]], [[Iron Chef Gauntlet]] and [[Next Iron Chef]] all branch off [[Iron Chef America]], are a different generation of programming, and are related to neither [[Iron Chef]] nor [[Iron Chef USA]]. I concur with Aussie's opinion that, just because it's been included doesn't by default mean it should be included on other than the Iron Chef page.  Policies change, definitions change, and content comes and goes.  This is an encyclopedia, not a fan page.  --<span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<span style="color:blue;">Dr.</span><span style="color:red;">Margi</span></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 20:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
:::Your arguments do make sense. In the end I was just trying to maintain a status quo. But I do question one part of your statement, {{user|Drmargi}}, if ICS, ICG, and NIC are not related to the original Iron Chef, then why do they include Iron Chef in their related shows areas? Just being honest here. - [[User:SanAnMan|SanAnMan]] ([[User talk:SanAnMan|talk]]) 23:18, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

==[[Iron Chef franchise]]==
We are missing a franchise article to cover all the licensed productions around the world. The [[Iron Chef]] article should not be heavily loaded with the non-Japanese derivatives. We need a new article -- [[Special:Contributions/70.51.45.76|70.51.45.76]] ([[User talk:70.51.45.76|talk]]) 07:25, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
: Why?  There's a list in the [[Iron Chef]] article that already needs to be pruned down to English-language versions.  What can be said that would merit an article of its own?  This whole notion of so-called franchises (such as NCIS) doesn't exist in the industry; it's a Wikipedia creation.  --<span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<span style="color:blue;">Dr.</span><span style="color:red;">Margi</span></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 17:55, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
::Why would you say it needs to be pruned down to just the English language versions? That makes no sense. [[The Voice]] doesn't only list English language versions. Indeed, something like that list of versions would make a good starting point for an Iron Chef franchise article. Or other similar ones, like [[The X Factor]], etc. -- [[Special:Contributions/70.51.45.76|70.51.45.76]] ([[User talk:70.51.45.76|talk]]) 03:33, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

== Time to talk about show in the past? ==
It's pretty clear Food Network is no longer investing in this show. Can we change page to reflect lack of new shows? FN has not announced any new shows in more than a year.
: Unless you have a source that they plan not to make any further episodes, we can't do that.  --<span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-shadow:blue 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">--<span style="color:blue;">Dr.</span><span style="color:red;">Margi</span></span> [[User talk:Drmargi#top|<big>✉</big>]] 23:18, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Does the channel need to formally announce it's abandoning the franchise in order for it to be considered done? Probably not something they're excited to proclaim, given the lagging ratings, the failed reboots, etc. The fact that they're not actively making new shows is more telling, isn't it? [[User:AMDG09|AMDG09]] ([[User talk:AMDG09|talk]])

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