View source for Talk:Ian Hunter (singer)

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==Ian Hunter is now in his fifth decade==
Most of this article reads like it was written by his record company's publicity department.  I thought so even before I got to the sentence, "Ian Hunter is now in his fifth decade of serving up great Rock 'n' Roll."  Yech.  Although, a publicity piece probably would not have the sloppiness near the beginning, about what the man's name is, or was.  We know from the first line that his real name is "Ian Hunter Patterson" (which I did not know before), but then we have him doing things as "Ian Patterson" and suddenly then as "Ian Hunter" without any explanation of when he started performing as "Ian Hunter."  Sometimes when a person has changed or shortened his/her name, an article will make initial reference to the person's real full name and from then on to the person's stage name, for "literary effect," but it is not clear that that is what is happening here.  The implication is that he performed for a time with his real last name but later dropped it, but the reader is left in confusion as to when that happened, if it ever did.  Now I want to go look at the "Johnny Cougar" (aka, aka, etc.) article, as a known example of someone whose "stage name" '''did''' change several times, to see how it handles that issue.  Better than this, I hope.  [[User:Zeutron|Zeutron]] 14:27, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


Recording "Dudes" is the key event that led Hunter and Mott to stardom,
as opposed to looming obscurity. Stylistically, the breakup of the band in 1972
should end a paragraph. And Ian's words from the "Just Another Night" DVD (2004)
interview serve as the perfect explanation of how "Dudes" happened. Young fans
today find it hard to understand why Bowie would give such an obvious classic song
to another artist.

And respectfully to Zeutron, most show biz people have [[stage names]] that evolve over
a period of time. Rarely is this of interest or consequence.

[[User:RedManPlus|RedManPlus]] 22:40, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


:This article seems to retain its individualistic, non-encyclopedic, [[POV]]  styling and content, despite all that was written above (around twelve months ago). Can someone please re-visit the wording, lack of any source or reference, and improve its present, amateurish standing. Thank you,
:[[User:Derek R Bullamore|Derek R Bullamore]] 18:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

:OK. You have a few points. As of mid-November 2006, it's basically crap. I did not write this (but I did his 'Diary' page) and will to put some time into this one. Give it a month. Since Ian's song-writing tends to be autobiographical, I may employ the stylistic technique of using Ian's own words from specific interviews and song lyrics to help paint a picture of his life. If you re-visit this page occasionally, please point out one or two specific sentences or paragraphs you feel are "in dispute" or stylistically sub-par. Regards.
:[[User:RedManPlus|RedManPlus]] 01:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

== Ian Hunter photo & birthdate ==

I uploaded a 2004 photo of Ian Hunter to Wikimedia Commons, file name IanHunter.JPG. It is my own original photo, which I release to public domain.

This is my first attempt at contributing to Wikipedia. If someone would like to add the photo to the Ian Hunter article, that's great.

I'm not sure if the photo quality is adequate.

The second edition of the ''GUINNESS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF POPULAR MUSIC'' (Volume 3), edited by Colin Larkin, reports that Ian Hunter was born 3 June 1946. I met Ian Hunter briefly in 2001 and I think the 1946 birthdate is probably correct. He is certainly not approaching 70, as you can probably tell by the uploaded photo.

I'm sorry I can't "do" more to contribute at this time, but hopefully as I learn more about contributing I'll do better. Thanks.

[[User:Miluba|Miluba]] 01:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)miluba

The photo isnt there, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 02:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

:I know his date of birth is open to question - but [[3 June]] [[1939]] is quoted in the Guinness Rockopedia - {{ISBN|0-85112-072-5}}. If nothing else, it countermands the (Guinness) quote above. Perhaps the main article should allude to the confusion over this matter -  although, as I commented back in November last year (above), the whole article still leaves much to be desired.

:[[User:Derek R Bullamore|Derek R Bullamore]] 08:52, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm 71 and watched him in the Apex around 1962. I was 21 and there's no possibility he was only 16! 1939 seems OK to me. Pete,Northampton Sept 2012  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.21.40.16|86.21.40.16]] ([[User talk:86.21.40.16|talk]]) 13:17, 21 September 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Sorry, you're right about the photo. I'm not sure what I did wrong. I can locate it here http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:IanHunter.JPG but it doesn't show up in a simple search on Wikimedia Commons. I'll try to learn more before I make another upload attempt. Thanks. [[User:Miluba|Miluba]] 11:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)Miluba

:It seems to work fine now. I've added it to the infobox to replace the previous image, which was apparently deleted. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 08:41, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

:::Just to reiterate the confusion over his birthdate, ''The Great Rock Discography'' cites 3 June 1946,<ref name="The Great Rock Discography">{{Cite book| first= Martin C.
| last= Strong| year= 2000| title= The Great Rock Discography| edition= 5th| publisher=Mojo Books| location= Edinburgh| pages= 671–2| isbn= 1-84195-017-3}}</ref> whist ''Guinness Rockopedia'' quotes 3 June 1939<ref name="Guinness Rockopedia 3">{{cite book|first=David|last=Roberts|year=1998|title=Guinness Rockopedia|edition=1st|publisher= Guinness Publishing Ltd.|location=London, UK|page=282|isbn=0-85112-072-5}}</ref> as does [[AllMusic]],<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.allmusic.com/artist/ian-hunter-mn0000087597|title=Ian Hunter - Biography, Albums, Streaming Links - AllMusic|website=AllMusic|accessdate=4 June 2018}}</ref> [[Rateyourmusic]].<ref>{{cite web|url=https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/ian-hunter|title=Ian Hunter discography|website=RateYourMusic|accessdate=4 June 2018}}</ref> and [[IMDb]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0402845/|title=Ian Hunter|website=IMDb|accessdate=4 June 2018}}</ref>  There are a number of other sources, less reliable but at least in agreement about 1939 including [http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/09/12/british-rock-hero-brings-band-to-the-fillmore/], [https://louderthanwar.com/ian-hunter-mott-the-hoople-interview/], [https://www.loudersound.com/features/ian-hunter-rocknroll-gave-me-everything-i-wouldnt-swap-it-for-the-world].  Incidentally the second of those latter sources is from an interview where Hunter clearly states the year of his birth - you would assume he would know.

:::[[User:Derek R Bullamore|Derek R Bullamore]] ([[User talk:Derek R Bullamore|talk]]) 14:36, 4 June 2018 (UTC) 

{{Reflist|section}}

:::::I have, somewhat belatedly, re-added the full 1939 birth date, with three reliable sources included, of all which allude to that year.  I also added a footnote, noting the discrepancy in some sources listing him as being born in 1946.  I would point out again, that Hunter himself stated he was born in 1939 in an interview (one of the three sources I listed (as above)); specifically stating that "I was born in 1939, which is 10 years after Wyatt Earp died...".  [[Wyatt Earp]] did indeed die in 1929.  This section is now here to refer to when some editor, and I guarantee they will, tries to restore the 1946 date (or some other variant). - [[User:Derek R Bullamore|Derek R Bullamore]] ([[User talk:Derek R Bullamore|talk]]) 00:30, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

::::::Just to confirm that the Civil Registration Birth Index, available from the General Register Office,  Reference: Volume 6a, Page 1034, confirms that Ian H Patterson was born in Oswestry, with his birth registered in the second quarter of 1939.   I wonder whether the footnote is really necessary, when the sources giving an alternative date are clearly wrong?    [[User:Ghmyrtle|Ghmyrtle]] ([[User talk:Ghmyrtle|talk]]) 21:27, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

== Mods to Summary and Early Years  ==

I made some mods: added recent promo photo, added musician info box, cleaned up the summary, cleaned up the first half of the Early Years section, added proper citation to Devine's biography. 

Sorry, but the Morton Fraser references were excessive. That's a minor detail almost not worth mentioning in a bio as long as Hunter's - so it's definitely not worth two paragraphs of background. Than belongs in a Morton Fraser Gang wiki page, not Hunter's. 

Ditto the obsession with Hunter's age and name. His authorised biography gives his correct birthdate, so there's no reason to cite conflicting sources when you can cite a correct one. And he was still "Patterson" in CBS press releases in 1968, so there's no need to dwell on it for two paragraphs in the first paragraph of his bio. 

ALSO: the huge list of magazine articles at the bottom are not sources, they are just copied from a fan website. Add an external link to fan website, but listing all those as "sources" just adds quantity, not quality.

[[User:LuckyLoser|LuckyLoser]] 05:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

How can there be a CBS press release from 1968 when Mott The Hoople didn't sing to CBS until 1972? Before that they were signed to 
Island and licensed in the US to Atlantic.

snyder  <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|72.78.141.130}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|72.78.141.130}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|72.78.141.130}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|13:15, August 22, 2007 (UTC)}}}</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

The 1968 CBS press release date is correct; the press release was issued for At Last The 1958 Rock and Roll Show, not Mott The Hoople. [[User:LuckyLoser|LuckyLoser]] ([[User talk:LuckyLoser|talk]]) 15:16, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

== Removed magazine article list ==

with the books cited, the list of magazine articles is overkill. 

[[User:MarkinBoston|MarkinBoston]] 18:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

but if you prefer magazines to books i guess you are SOL now then  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.125.110.223|69.125.110.223]] ([[User talk:69.125.110.223|talk]]) 19:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Inspiration for Cleveland Rocks ==

The success of Ian's best known solo tune Cleveland Rocks is well described but readers are left wondering why he'd pen it in the first place.  In an early 1980s interview on Night Flight Ian explained that he wanted to pay tribute to Cleveland for being the first locale in America to really embrace Mott the Hoople.  Cleveland was well known at the time as a launching pad for musical acts.  In the same Night Flight program Mott the Hoople is shown performing Cleveland Rocks in New York City.  As the song nears the end Ian pauses, waiting, as I'm sure he must've expected, for the audience to scream "New York rocks!" in place of "Cleveland Rocks!" which was indicative of the stage skill of Ian Hunter.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mooncastle|Mooncastle]] ([[User talk:Mooncastle|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mooncastle|contribs]]) 13:29, 26 June 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

The song was not written as "Cleveland Rocks". It was written as "England Rocks" and appeared on "Overnight Angels" in 1977. It didn't change to "Cleveland Rocks" until the next tour. (Reference your own page on said). To site inspiration for a song who's title only was later changed is specious at best.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Berniemac61|Berniemac61]] ([[User talk:Berniemac61|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berniemac61|contribs]]) 18:06, 5 August 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

"England Rocks" only appeared on the CD reissue of "Overnight Angels" many years after its original release. It was not on the original album and was a circulated demo recording. The song wa sdfeinitely conceived and written with relation to England, but the first release was on the "You're never alone with a Scizophrenic" album and as a single. [[User:Ian Edmundson|Ian Edmundson]] ([[User talk:Ian Edmundson|talk]]) 18:07, 3 September 2014 (UTC) Ian Edmundson

== POV ==

In copy editing, I see these unencyclopedic statements, and I'd like to call on someone with access to the works referenced to rephrase them:

'''Early Years'''
* ''Ian recalls jumping around like a lunatic on stage:''
* ''Tensions were in the air though, both musically and in his personal life. While his wife attended to home life, Hunter resumed his wild ways with his Northampton mates.''

[[User:Dementia13|Dementia13]] ([[User talk:Dementia13|talk]]) 23:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, the "Early Years" section covers the least notable period of his career, but it is the longest section. The others could be expanded, but this one needs a trim. [[User:Dementia13|Dementia13]] ([[User talk:Dementia13|talk]]) 13:49, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Opening paragraph states "He embarked on a solo career despite ill health and disillusionment with commercial success, and often worked in collaboration with Mott The Hoople guitarist Mick Ronson,". Mick Ronson never played guitar for Mott, that was a different Mick.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Berniemac61|Berniemac61]] ([[User talk:Berniemac61|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Berniemac61|contribs]]) 18:16, 5 August 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Thats wrong, Mick Ronson toured with Mott the last 6 moths of Mott. Even ian says so ins evral ineterv.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.89.7.226|88.89.7.226]] ([[User talk:88.89.7.226|talk]]) 22:23, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Ref Mick tour list : http://www.mickronson.com/mrgigs.shtml     1974 Mott The Hoople European Tour  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.89.7.226|88.89.7.226]] ([[User talk:88.89.7.226|talk]]) 22:39, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Hunter has referred to collapsing with stress and being hospitalised at the end of Mott the Hoople, cancelling a tour that was booked and informing members of the band of his departure via his management. Mick Ronson definitely did a number of shows with Mott The Hoople and played on their swansong single Saturday gigs. [[User:Ian Edmundson|Ian Edmundson]] ([[User talk:Ian Edmundson|talk]]) 18:11, 3 September 2014 (UTC) Ian Edmundson

== Nationality ==

It is not unreasonable for someone to self-identify as more than one nationality. It would appear that Hunter has self-identified as English, Scottish and British; referenced quotes to him doing so for all three options are easily found on the internet. As "British" is a catch-all and the specification that he is specifically only English negates his own additional Scottish self-identification, isn't the former the most fitting term to employ? At the very least, it is not reasonable to blank material regarding one of these self-idents to promote the sole reference to one of the others. [[User:Mutt Lunker|Mutt Lunker]] ([[User talk:Mutt Lunker|talk]]) 23:16, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

== National Service? ==

National Service ended gradually from 1957. It was decided that those born on or after 1 October 1939 would not be required, but conscription continued for those born earlier whose call-up had been delayed for any reason. Did Ian Hunter do national service? [[User:Burraron|Burraron]] ([[User talk:Burraron|talk]]) 20:01, 28 May 2023 (UTC)