View source for Talk:Henry II of France

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== Intro ==
"leaving his young sons on the throne under the influence of such dominant people as Mary Queen of Scots..."?  Mary was just a teenager when Henri died.  She was hardly "dominant," she certainly didn't control the French throne for the brief period that she was Queen Consort. I am removing that statement.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.251.41.61|68.251.41.61]] ([[User talk:68.251.41.61|talk]]) 01:05, 12 February 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Early Life?==
Can somebody write an Early Life/Childhood section for Henry II? It merely jumps right into his reign without explaining who his parents were, where he was born and raised, or the fact he was held hostage in Spain against his father for four years by Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor. Nor does it explain how, why and when he became king.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/58.164.123.215|58.164.123.215]] ([[User talk:58.164.123.215|talk]]) 06:05, 7 September 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Another Early Life: I'm not entirely sure of the relationship between his parents or his wife's parents or who was who's cousin here. Maybe split it into more than one sentence for clarity?   <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Solo1y|Solo1y]] ([[User talk:Solo1y#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Solo1y|contribs]]) 19:01, 23 April 2022 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:{{ping|Solo1y}}. I added a link to [[second cousin]] and another sentence with the info that Francis and Claude both had [[Louis I, Duke of Orléans]] as a great-grandfather. Hope that helps. --[[User:Robert.Allen|Robert.Allen]] ([[User talk:Robert.Allen|talk]]) 00:26, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
::Yes! Thank you. [[User:Solo1y|Solo1y]] ([[User talk:Solo1y|talk]]) 19:22, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

== Marriage and Issue ==
What does mean by 'issue' here? Please clarify which issues people had or did not had. Were those health problems or something else?

As far as I can see, 'issue' means children, in the context of this article. - [[User:Ballista|Ballista]] 17:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

== Nostradamus Prophecy ==
This is not a relevant issue to a short biographical presentation of Henry II. The contention that Nostradamus's prophecy did not contain that quatrain during his lifetime is not proven or supported, either. Moreover, there is mounting evidence that Nostradamus did not even write the quatrains, but stole them from an abbey, and they were written 200 years before his own lifetime.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/100.10.39.191|100.10.39.191]] ([[User talk:100.10.39.191#top|talk]]) 15:30, 23 April 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Isnt that what some people use to fuffill Nostradamus' Prophecy of Genghis Khan as well????[[User:Winn3317|Winn3317]] 02:15, 19 September 2006 (UTC) hi

:The events surrounding his death are not as described in the article.  The prophecy states that the young lion will overcome the old lion, and both contestants were about the same age.  And neither henri nor his opponent used the lion as a symbol of their royal families.  The helmet was neither gold nor gilded, and there was only one wound sustained, and it did not affect either of his eyes.  My source on this is "Fidgeting fat, exploding meat & Gobbling Whirly birds" by dr Karl kruszelnicki (Harper Collins 1999), page 192.--[[User:Tiberius47|Tiberius47]] ([[User talk:Tiberius47|talk]]) 11:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

==Added citation request==
I just watched a documentary which seems to take as fact the idea that Nostradamus' supposed prediction of Henry's death made Nostradamus an international superstar. I'm curious the source for the statement that the connection wasn't made until well after Nostradamus' death.--[[User:24.21.254.55|24.21.254.55]] 08:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

:You are right; go ahead and remove the information. The prophecy had already been made by [[Luca Gaurico|Gauric]], and Henry was aware of it; but Nostradamus latched onto it, and many at the time believed Nostradamus was somehow responsible for the king's death. [[User:Qp10qp|qp10qp]] 16:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[[Image:HenriIIbetweenFrance&Fame.jpg|thumb|right|100px|Henri II, supported by France and crowned by Fame tramples Heresy]]

::I have added the necessary footnote reference to the 'Prophecy' section, but it doesn't seem to be working. Would somebody rather more technically competent than I am care to fix the problem? --[[User:PL|PL]] ([[User talk:PL|talk]]) 10:54, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

::Gee, thanks, Hemmingsen! --[[User:PL|PL]] ([[User talk:PL|talk]]) 15:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

==Court style==
Anyone wanting to add a section on court patronage might use the engraving at right by Jean Duvet, c 1548, emblemmatic of allegorical court fêtes. (It might get lost at Commons.).--[[User:Wetman|Wetman]] 04:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

== Ancestry ==
No 19 in the table of ancestors was linked to [[Marguerite of Brittany]], daughter of Duke Francis I. However she was married to Francis II of Brittany, not Alain IX of Rohan, and had no children in any case. The Marguerite of Brittany who actually married Alain IX was a daughter of [[John V, Duke of Brittany]] (sometimes also numbered John IV, which is confusing; this is due to differing views of his father the original John IV's rights). There is no page for the correct Marguerite, so I just removed the link.

[[Special:Contributions/81.153.251.131|81.153.251.131]] ([[User talk:81.153.251.131|talk]]) 11:17, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

There's another problem with the ancestry section - it lists his descendants rather than his ancestors![[User:Levalley|Levalley]] ([[User talk:Levalley|talk]]) 22:41, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== His death did not lead to the decline of jousting ==
The accidental death of Henri II did not lead to the decline of jousting by any means. It remained popular long after his death. In England, for instance, the peak of the tournament was under the reign of Queen Elizabeth, with the Accession Day Tilt. This pageantry and elaborate jousting tournaments even continued to a lesser extend into the Jacobean era, thanks to the cult of personality of [[Henry Frederick, Prince of Wales]], and even Charles I is noted as having participated in the tournament as a young man. In Germany, the aristocracy was still fanatically obsessed with tilting and continued to do it even as late as the 1930s, in Saxony. The Augsburg and Greenwich armouries reached their technical and artistic peak in the late 1500s, and decorated armours from around this time feature lance rests so obviously they were being used for jousting. Maybe Henri II's death caused a drop in jousting in France, but not elsewhere in Europe. [[User:Golden Hound|Golden Hound]] ([[User talk:Golden Hound|talk]]) 13:50, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

If it took a single death to end jousting, then the sport never would have caught on in the first place, so that sounds like a weasel word.

Other historical websites on the web point to syphilis as a French disease (due to the activities of the French court, not due to ethnic/genetic) as the cause of death for the King. So who are we to believe, the historical websites or wikipedia?  In modern day, it is common to say someone died from pneumonia on their death certificates, even though the pneumonia may have simply been a complication of a much more serious underlying disease such as aids or cancer or parkinsons.  Seems it would be just as common in their day to hide an embarrassing reason for the death of a noble person in this way, or perhaps he had syphilis and was injured in the tournament. However, if he did die from an std, then this would be another argument against his death leading to the decline of jousting. Royal proclamations only set the official story straight. However, gossip and historical letters, would mean that royalty and commoners alike would have known of the King's activities in bed and that the likely cause of his death might not be jousting. 

This post needs help from historical experts who can speak on that.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:14B:4401:D5C0:6D56:6B9:FB4C:E5DB|2601:14B:4401:D5C0:6D56:6B9:FB4C:E5DB]] ([[User talk:2601:14B:4401:D5C0:6D56:6B9:FB4C:E5DB#top|talk]]) 12:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Pictures ==
The article was full of pictures, most of them didn't really added to the text, and the article suffered from some styling problems; so I moved some of the pictures to a gallery section, and spread through the article the ones that actually add relevant and enlightening information to it. If you disagree with this edit, please tell me which picture moved to the gallery you think does elaborate the article. [[User:Tomer T|Tomer T]] ([[User talk:Tomer T|talk]]) 14:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

== External links modified ==
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== Henry versus Henri ==
{{FYI|Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.}}
Please see [[Talk:Henry III of France#Why the anglicized "Henry"?]]<br /><span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 07:09, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

== Policy ==
My recent edits were intended to bring the article into compliance with policy. There were several glaring errors. Firstly, an IP had added a raft of [[WP:OR|original research]], that is, making stuff up without sourcing it to anything reliable. So I restored what had been there before. Also, the [[:Category:Knights of the Garter]] is not supported by the article, so it had to go. There was also an assertion that was unsourced for three long years and didn't seem worth keeping, so I deleted it. I do not see a rationale for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_II_of_France&diff=847995140&oldid=847985505 reverting all  four edits wholesale.] Now that I am looking closely, I do see what {{ping|Kansas Bear}} means, my copy-paste was mis-aimed. I will repair that edit promptly. [[Special:Contributions/2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26]] ([[User talk:2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|talk]]) 04:28, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

===Edit request===
{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}}
*I am submitting this as an edit request due to [[WP:3RR]].
*The second near-duplicate paragraph should be deleted. It is faulty. The first paragraph should be retained, reading:
*{{green|Henry married [[Catherine de' Medici]], a member of the ruling family of [[Florence]], on 28 October 1533, when they were both fourteen years old. The following year, he became romantically involved with a thirty-five-year-old widow, [[Diane de Poitiers]]. They had always been very close: she had publicly embraced him on the day he set off to Spain, and during a jousting tournament, he insisted that his lance carry her ribbon instead of his wife's. Diane became Henry's mistress and most trusted confidante and, for the next twenty-five years, wielded considerable influence behind the scenes, even signing royal documents. Extremely confident, mature and intelligent, she left Catherine powerless to intervene.{{sfn|Wellman|2013|p=200}} She did, however, insist that Henry sleep with Catherine in order to produce heirs to the throne.{{sfn|Wellman|2013|p=200}}}}
*My other three edits are to be kept verbatim, to comply with policy. I am wholly unsure why all four were reverted together, when only the last one was a technical error. [[Special:Contributions/2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26]] ([[User talk:2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|talk]]) 04:32, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
**Addendum: Please insert "{{green|Henry II was made a Knight of the Garter, April 1515.<ref>Jennifer Loach, ''Edward VI'', Yale University Press, page 107.</ref>}}" in an appropriate place, and restore [[:Category:Knights of the Garter]], per [[WP:CATV]]. Thanks to Kansas Bear from his comment below. [[Special:Contributions/2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26]] ([[User talk:2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|talk]]) 05:06, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
***I'm very confused on what to change, remove, or restore. I see you made two reverts, so why not do it yourself? <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:L293D|<b style="color:#060">L293D</b>]]&nbsp;([[User talk:L293D#top|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/L293D|<b style="color:#000">✎</b>]])</span> 13:10, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

=== Copying information into another paragraph ===
An IP has decided to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_II_of_France&diff=847995974&oldid=847995140                         copy information from one paragraph and paste it into another];
*"''Henry married [[Catherine de' Medici]], a member of the ruling family of [[Florence]], on 28 October 1533, when they were both fourteen years old. The following year, he became romantically involved with a thirty-five-year-old widow, [[Diane de Poitiers]]. They had always been very close: she had publicly embraced him on the day he set off to Spain, and during a jousting tournament, he insisted that his lance carry her ribbon instead of his wife's. Diane became Henry's mistress and most trusted confidante and, for the next twenty-five years, wielded considerable influence behind the scenes, even signing royal documents. '''Extremely confident, mature and intelligent, she left Catherine powerless to intervene.{{sfn|Wellman|2013|p=200}} She did, however, insist that Henry sleep with Catherine in order to produce heirs to the throne'''.{{sfn|Wellman|2013|p=200}}''<br>
  		  		
*''Whatever the reality of the physical aspects of their relationship, Henry's regard for Diane was advertised when, during a jousting tournament, he insisted that his lance carry her ribbon instead of his wife's. Diane became Henry's most trusted confidante and perhaps his mistress, and for the next twenty-five years, she wielded considerable influence behind the scenes, even signing royal documents. '''Extremely confident, mature and intelligent, she left Catherine powerless to intervene.{{sfn|Wellman|2013|p=200}} She did, however, insist that Henry sleep with Catherine in order to produce heirs to the throne'''.{{sfn|Wellman|2013|p=200}}''"

I'm seeing some repetition here. --[[User:Kansas Bear|Kansas Bear]] ([[User talk:Kansas Bear|talk]]) 04:30, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

::There is no repetition, I made a technical error in copy-paste. The second paragraph is faulty and must be deleted. My other three edits must be restored. I have placed an edit request above. Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26]] ([[User talk:2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|talk]]) 04:32, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
:::The edit in question is not the one you linked. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_II_of_France&diff=847985505&oldid=847985321 It is this one singular edit] where I did indeed copy-and-paste from an earlier, valid revision, intending to overwrite [[WP:OR]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_II_of_France&diff=825416192&oldid=824770863 by an IP editor from February 2018], but I mis-aimed. {{ping|Johnbod}} had split that single paragraph into two, and I forgot to re-merge it. The other edits you portray were separate, and totally valid and I request that they be restored to comply with policy. [[Special:Contributions/2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26]] ([[User talk:2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|talk]]) 04:36, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
::::FYI, Henry II was made a Knight of the Garter, April 1515.<ref>Jennifer Loach, ''Edward VI'', Yale University Press, page 107.</ref>--[[User:Kansas Bear|Kansas Bear]] ([[User talk:Kansas Bear|talk]]) 05:02, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
::::According to Wellman, page 197, ''To gain his own release, Francis' two oldest sons became Spanish hostages. The dauphine Francis was nine years old; Henry was just seven. Diane was among the women of the court who accompanied the young princes to Spain and embraced them before turning them over to Spanish officials.''
::::Wellman, page 197, "''Diane accompanied the young princes and future queen back to France. In the tournament held to honor the new queen, Diane won a prize for beauty, although she shared it with Anne the king's mistress.[..].and Henry wore Diane's colors..[..]..When it was his turn, Henry knelt before Diane, indicating to all that he considered her his lady. Henry was smitten at a young age and remained so.''"--[[User:Kansas Bear|Kansas Bear]] ([[User talk:Kansas Bear|talk]]) 05:18, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
{{ref-talk}}
:::::Good, then we are agreed that the first paragraph is valid and preferred over the second. [[Special:Contributions/2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26]] ([[User talk:2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26|talk]]) 05:31, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
::::::Actually, the only edit that should be restored is the removal of "''Even those only suspected of being Huguenots could be imprisoned.<nowiki>{{citation needed|date=June 2015}}</nowiki>''". --[[User:Kansas Bear|Kansas Bear]] ([[User talk:Kansas Bear|talk]]) 06:39, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
:Procedural close of the edit request template as {{nd}}. Edit requests are not a tool to further your position in an edit war. Edit requests can only be granted if they are uncontroversial improvements to the article, or are ''already'' supported by a consensus of editors on the talk page. Please see [[WP:Edit requests#General considerations]]. &#8209;&#8209;'''[[User talk:ElHef|<span style="color:red;">El</span><span style="color:orange;">Hef</span>]]'''&nbsp;<small>([[Special:Contributions/ElHef|<span style="color:black;">Meep?</span>]])</small> 13:29, 29 June 2018 (UTC)