View source for Talk:Gavrilo Princip

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== Anarchist? ==

Saving some sources on the relation between Princip and anarchism, which is a frequent topic (misconception?) in sources but not yet addressed in the current article. {{talkquote|Berkman later clarified that ... Gavrilo Princip, was in fact a 'Serbian patriot who had never heard of Anarchism'. Yet this was not quite true, either; the nationalist Princip had read works by the anarchist thinkers Mikhail Bakunin and Peter Kropotkin ... This ambiguous relationship between anti-statist anarchists and national liberation movements became central to American and international anarchist disagreements over the proper course of action during the First World War ...|source=[https://books.google.com/books?id=RnG5DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT224 At war with empire: the anti-colonial roots of American anarchist debates during the First World War]}} {{talkquote|Conventional histories claim that the Great War, which engulfed Europe between 1914 and 1918, was the fault of an anarchist—one Gavrilo Princip ... In fact, Princip was a Yugoslav nationalist, not an anarchist ...|source=[https://books.google.com/books?id=laowDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA55 Unruly Equality], p. 55}} {{talkquote|... pathologically violent miscreants ... associated with lunacy and criminal violence ... These stereotypes of the anarchist are reinforced by popular media linking ... Princip's assassination of Archduke ... as anarchist acts, although ... Princip's assassination was coordinated through the nationalist Black Hand. |source=[https://books.google.com/books?id=m7BhDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA579 Depictions of Anarchism and Anarchists] in The Palgrave Handbook of Anarchism}} <span style="background:#F3F3F3; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 16:21, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Princip preferred nationalism over trans-European equality, but the source clearly states Princip was influenced by anarchism. Anarchism includes goals other than trans-European equality.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.189.35.186|24.189.35.186]] ([[User talk:24.189.35.186#top|talk]]) 04:52, 31 December 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:: :{{reply to|24.189.35.186}} You need to provide better sources, that statement comes from [[Libcom.org|libcom]] which is "an online platform featuring a variety of libertarian communist essays, blog posts, and archives" please read [[WP:CITE]] and [[WP:RS]] on how to source your edits. [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 18:38, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
:::{{Ping|24.189.35.186}} Please stop adding the same content, you are supposed to start a discussion here, [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit-warring]] will result in a block. [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 21:38, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
1) The source I am using is already used in the article. 2) The source states that Princip was influenced by the two anarchist thinkers. 3) Princip’s devotion to nationalism does not negate his devotion to anarchism.[[Special:Contributions/24.189.35.186|24.189.35.186]] ([[User talk:24.189.35.186|talk]]) 01:54, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
::::{{reply to|24.189.35.186}} I added content referring to his exposure to socialist, anarchist and communist writing; I could not find any RS mentioning a “ devotion to anarchism.” In order for other editors to understand it would be helpful if you posted links to the sources you are mentioning, sign your post and [[Help:Talk pages|learn how to use the TP]]. You can find more at [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines]]. Thank you [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 09:26, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

If we just talk about Princip being "exposed" to anarchist writing we are being dishonest. This source <ref>https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/martin-pappenheim-conversations-with-gavrilo-princip</ref> uses the word "influenced". [[Special:Contributions/24.189.35.186|24.189.35.186]] ([[User talk:24.189.35.186|talk]]) 21:04, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
:::::{{reply to|24.189.35.186}} The source used in the article clearly states that he was exposed to to socialist, anarchist and communist writing. About the source you keep bringing back [https://libcom.org/history/did-teenage-anarchists-trigger-world-war-one-what-was-politics-assassins-franz-ferdinand here] as I have said before it does not look like a [[WP:RS]] per [[WP:RSOPINION]] so please do not insert it back or find a better one, Thank you. [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 21:16, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Why do you feel the anarchist library site is inadequate as a source? Do you consider Pappenheim a reliable source?  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.189.35.186|24.189.35.186]] ([[User talk:24.189.35.186#top|talk]]) 00:47, 14 January 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

{{reflist-talk}}

== Gavrilo Princip ==

I just want to know where was Gavrilo Princip's body for 21 years before he was buried because he died 28 April 1918 and buried 29 October 1939 [[Special:Contributions/41.23.235.9|41.23.235.9]] ([[User talk:41.23.235.9|talk]]) 15:47, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

:In 1920 his bones were gathered alongside other Serbian nationalists from Austria and returned to Sarajevo; they were buried on 7 July 1920, in a common grave. In 1939 the chapel of the Holy Archangel was built and dedicated to them.[https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FOHgDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA604&dq=gavrilo+princip+was+born+on+25+July+1895&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij5vfVvb6AAxUO_7sIHfUtDPsQuwV6BAgEEAc#v=onepage&q&f=false][https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u_aVEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA537&dq=gavrilo+princip+buried+1920&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0vaHtvr6AAxXmRqQEHSU5DNkQuwV6BAgDEAY#v=onepage&q=gavrilo%20princip%20buried%201920&f=false] [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 17:36, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

== Birth year ==
{{Moved discussion from|[[User_talk:Aeengath#Gavrilo_Princip]] }}
Hello! Regarding the changes to Gavrilo Princip, I'm new to editing. The thing is, the Historic archive of Belgrade voiced their complaint that the year 1984 is inaccurate, they have a document that claims it's 1895. And it seems it's easier to complain on facebook than to change it proactively. I wanted to help. This is their source of Facebook, I'm not sure how to request an archive document, but they showed a picture: https://www.facebook.com/ArhivBeograda/posts/pfbid0qjE2oBqSUKGc7dYUP2ZgjvuvAyFWLpoh2dmEzSK6JAGSjQjJuF14udWGhFRxPE9wl [[User:Lapaclazar|Lapaclazar]] ([[User talk:Lapaclazar|talk]]) 15:45, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
: Hi @[[User:Lapaclazar|Lapaclazar]], To demonstrate that you are not adding [[Wikipedia:ORIGINAL|original research]], you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that contains the same material. Even if that document was made accessible by the Historical Archive of Belgrade (instead of a screenshot on Facebook) it may be contested as [[Wikipedia:RSPRIMARY|primary sources]] and per [[WP:RSPRIMARY]] “All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors.” Also the date on Gavrilo Princip's enrolment form at [[First Belgrade Gymnasium]] could simply be a mistake, in 1913 he was only a student while a year later his birth date was exhaustively discussed at the trial. See quote below. [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 08:46, 2 August 2023 (UTC) edited [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 16:36, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
:{{Blockquote|text=Milos Bilbija, a young priest from Princip's own clan, recorded in the Parish Register that Gavrilo Princip was born on July 13 1894, and in the Civil Register, which was also kept by the parish, June 13 1894. Twenty years later this aberration of the local priest was the cause of serious legal disputes demanding the expertise of some of the highest civil servants of the Habsburg empire to determine which of the two records was right. On their decision depended the punishment of Gavrilo Princip at his trial as an assassin; if he was under twenty on the day of his crime, he could not be sentenced to death according to Austro-Hungarian law.|author=[[Vladimir Dedijer]]|source=''The Road to Sarajevo'' (1966)[https://books.google.co.uk/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&redir_esc=y&id=0KItAAAAIAAJ&dq=The+Road+to+Sarajevo&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=Milos+Bilbija]}} [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 16:40, 2 August 2023 (UTC) edited [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 12:29, 3 August 2023 (UTC)