View source for Talk:Fugging, Upper Austria

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{{Old peer review|ID=978326623|reviewedname=Fucking, Austria|date=28 September 2020|archive=1}}
{{DYK talk|14 November|2009|... that the [[Austria]]n town of '''[[Fucking, Austria|Fucking]]''' installed theft-resistant road signs in 2005 because the signs were frequently stolen by tourists?}}
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{{old move|date1=27 June 2013|from1=Fucking, Austria|destination1=Fucking|result1=not moved|date2=12 June 2025|destination2=Fucking, Austria|result2=not moved|link2=Special:Permalink/1295302402#Requested move 12 June 2025}}

== Oh, have a sense of humor. ==
There are so many more places the name of the town could be entered into the article with perfect accuracy. It would certainly make it much more readable.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/157.139.9.155|157.139.9.155]] ([[User talk:157.139.9.155|talk]]) 19:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

: It's not for lack of humour. In a reference work like WP, it's more appropriate to use pronouns than to gratuitously re-cite the subject's name. – [[User:AndyFielding|AndyFielding]] ([[User talk:AndyFielding|talk]]) 09:44, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

== Requested move: → Fucking ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''not moved''' per [[WP:SNOW]]. [[User:Legoktm|Legoktm]] ([[User talk:Legoktm|talk]]) 20:29, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

----

[[:Fucking, Austria]] → {{no redirect|Fucking}} – This is the only article on Wiki of this title, so there is no need for disambiguation. "Titles of distinct articles may differ only in their detail," per [[WP:PRECISION]]. The vast majority of items in [[:Category:Cities and towns in Upper Austria]] do not use the comma-Austria tag. {{fontcolor|green|'''This is the actual name of the village. There is nothing "funny" about it.'''}} Please do not come to this RM if you plan to make fun of the name, for example by asking whether it is the sister city of some other town with a ribald name. We've heard it all before. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 10:55, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

===Survey===
Isn't the purpose of the disambiguation to distinguish it from the inflected version of the word ''[[fuck]]'', rather than from some other place of the same name? [[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] ([[User talk:Prioryman|talk]]) 11:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
:[[Red meat]] is considered to be sufficiently disambiguated from [[Red Meat]], per WP:PRECISION, linked above. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 11:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
*'''Leaving Fucking Alone''', clever clogs. The article's doing it's job fine and unambiguously where it is. Let's face it, the versatile word 'fuck' is generally used as a verb, but as we usually mandate nouns as article titles, it's arguably in the wrong namespace. It's highly likely that the proposed title could cause misdirection of traffic. We don't want the innocent stumbling onto the wrong article now, do we? Admittedly, the worse case would be in the other direction. But landing on the wrong article because someone wants to write in shorthand doesn't serve the readers nowt, and I sure as hell don't want to see an article entitled [[Fucking (activity)]]. ;-) --<small><span style="background-color:#ffffff;border: 1px solid;">[[User:Ohconfucius|'''<span style="color:#000000; background-color:#00FF00">&nbsp;Ohc&nbsp;</span>''']]</span></small>[[User talk:Ohconfucius|''<sup>¡digame!</sup><sub>¿que pasa?</sub>'']] 14:51, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
*F*** me, hands off. [[User:Tony1|<span style="color:darkgreen;">'''Tony'''</span>]] [[User talk:Tony1|<span style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) </span>]] 15:11, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
*WP:disruptive and WP:childish. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Born2cycle&diff=prev&oldid=561816335 "I definitely had fun writing this"] [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 15:34, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
*A little disambiguation goes a long way.  For example, I was just visiting here to check out something one of our most distinguished admins said to one of our most distinguished pitas "I don't care about your Fucking article!"  Did he mean this Fucking article?  Apparently not.  FWIW, folks go to incredible lengths to disambiguate around here, e.g. a couple of days ago somebody decided to make sure that when I wrote New York City, that readers would understand that I meant [[New York City]], [[New York]], [[United States]].  [[User:Smallbones|Smallbones]]<sub>([[User talk:Smallbones|<span style="color:#cc6600;">smalltalk</span>]])</sub> 15:42, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
:::See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shearwater_%28schooner%29&diff=561754444&oldid=546120533].  But maybe he was just making a point, since I'd already identified the location as in [[Lower Manhattan]] [[User:Smallbones|Smallbones]]<sub>([[User talk:Smallbones|<span style="color:#cc6600;">smalltalk</span>]])</sub> 15:54, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
*[[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]] is relevant here (and is listed at [[WP:PRECISION]] as one of the possible reasons for an exception to the precision criterion). When someone is looking up "[[fucking]]", I would argue that they are most likely looking for the article "[[fuck]]". If the redirect were changed to not point to the disambig, then it would me more appropriate to have it point directly to "fuck" rather than to this article. (note: I'm not endorsing that change either - I think the disambig serves the encyclopedia better than redirecting to a specific article). --- [[User:Barek|Barek]] <small>([[User talk:Barek|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Barek|contribs]])</small> - 16:04, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
*Either 1) '''rename to [[Fucking (Austria)]]''' or 2) '''Keep'''. The common use of the proposed target in English is the activity so [[WP:COMMONNAME]] should point it there. On 1) I think brackets disambiguation is preferable to commas as the latter can give the misleading impression that the full phrase is the standard name for the place, but that battle may have to be fought at a higher level. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] ([[User talk:Timrollpickering|talk]]) 16:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''.  Pointless move request.  The current redirect for Fucking points to where most people searching the term would expect to go.  As such, this article's title is appropriate as is. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 19:45, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Fucking, Austria should stay where it is. [[User:Darkness Shines|Darkness Shines]] ([[User talk:Darkness Shines|talk]]) 20:20, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[WP:RM|requested move]].  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[WP:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

== Supposed bad word? ==

It's worth saying that it's famous for its name because its name is spelt like an English bad word. [[Special:Contributions/85.210.158.7|85.210.158.7]] ([[User talk:85.210.158.7|talk]]) 21:36, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
: I think that is covered adequately. [[User:Wikipeterproject|Wikipeterproject]] ([[User talk:Wikipeterproject|talk]]) 08:55, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

:: And to think I wandered in here entirely at random. 😄 – [[User:AndyFielding|AndyFielding]] ([[User talk:AndyFielding|talk]]) 09:45, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

== Google Maps indicates a change to the town name -- why? ==

Google maps shows the name of the town, and the name of its main road(s) as "Hucking" (observed 16 Nov 2013).  Is there any evidence of how such a change occurred?  The map search was for the original place name.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/118.93.150.252|118.93.150.252]] ([[User talk:118.93.150.252|talk]]) 04:27, 16 November 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I've taken a look and it seems that Google has named all the village streets and even some of the nearby roads "Hucking"; however, if you zoom out by one level, the village's limits appear, as does the name Fucking. I think the "Hucking" form is simply a mistake. Quite possibly the compositor refused to believe that a place could be called "Fucking". [[User:Kelisi|Kelisi]] ([[User talk:Kelisi|talk]]) 17:54, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
:You know the public can edit Google Maps, right? – [[User:Epicgenius|Epicgenius]] ([[User talk:Epicgenius|talk]]) 16:41, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

== German Towns with silly names? ==

What is the problem with a German town being called Himmelreich ("Kingdom of Heaven")? Does this have some rude double-meaning in German, like "Glory Hole" or something? [[User:Muzilon|Muzilon]] ([[User talk:Muzilon|talk]]) 08:23, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
:No, Himmelreich doesn't have a rude double-meaning at all. [[User:Gugganij|Gugganij]] ([[User talk:Gugganij|talk]]) 20:49, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

:: I'm sure you'll agree, though, it's good to get these sorts of things straightened out. – [[User:AndyFielding|AndyFielding]] ([[User talk:AndyFielding|talk]]) 09:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

What silly German place names is concerned, you might want to consult [[de:Benutzer:Bdk/Liste merkwürdiger Ortsnamen in Deutschland]]. --[[User:Proofreader|Proofreader]] ([[User talk:Proofreader|talk]]) 20:24, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

== Notification of a TFA nomination ==

In the past, there have been requests that discussions about potentially controversial TFAs are brought to the attention of more than just those who have WP:TFAR on their watchlist. With that in mind: ''[[Fuck: Word Taboo and Protecting Our First Amendment Liberties]]'' has been nominated for an appearance as Today's Featured Article. If you have any views, please comment at [[Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests]]. &mdash; '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 20:13, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2015 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Fucking, Austria|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->
Since the name of this town "Fucking" is very often mispronounced I want to add the correct pronunciation with a sound file recorded by me and uploaded with my account: [https://soundcloud.com/samuel-b-20/fucking-austria-pronunciation soundcloud-link]

edit - I have uploaded the file to Wikipedia commons: [[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fucking,_Austria.wav]]
<!-- End request -->
[[User:Xamuel1804|Xamuel1804]] ([[User talk:Xamuel1804|talk]]) 19:53, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
:Okay. Could you upload the file to Wikimedia Commons? That way I can add it to the article. If you want to upload the file to commons, you will need to agree to release it under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 (or similar free-use licence), as Wikipedia will only include material is allowed to be used, modified, and redistributed for any purpose, by anybody; although you retain the copyright to your work. Follow the instructions here: [[Commons:Special:UploadWizard]]. Thanks, [[User:Rob984|Rob984]] ([[User talk:Rob984|talk]]) 20:45, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
:{{done}}. [[User:Rob984|Rob984]] ([[User talk:Rob984|talk]]) 22:20, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2015 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Fucking, Austria|answered=yes}}
<!-- Begin request -->
Since the name of this town "Fucking" is very often mispronounced I want to add the correct pronunciation with a sound file recorded by me and uploaded with my account.
I have uploaded the file to Wikipedia commons: [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fucking,_Austria.wav wikipedia commons link]
<!-- End request -->
[[User:Xamuel1804|Xamuel1804]] ([[User talk:Xamuel1804|talk]]) 10:11, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
:{{done}} by {{noping|Rob984}} -- [[User:ChamithN|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Chamith</span>]] [[User talk:ChamithN|<span style="color:#228B22">''(talk)''</span>]] 06:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

== Undue weight problem ==
This article desribes in great detail the controversies and incidents surrounding the name of the town, even including quotations from a local tour guide, the municipality’s mayor and a police chief. One could argue that this kind of detailed information should not be in an encyclopedia. More problematic is the fact that the amount of attention given to this topic is disproportionate concidering the little information that is provided about the town itself. Not surprisingly, this is a problem that occurs often in Wikipedia-articles involving more ‘popular’ topics. [[User:Tridek Sep|Tridek Sep]] ([[User talk:Tridek Sep|talk]]) 13:25, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

:The ''only'' reason this remote village is so notable is its name, so it is only natural that most of our (and our sources') coverage revolves around that name. Compare, for example, the article about pair of barren islets named [[Imia/Kardak]] -- they're notable only because the border dispute, so "the amount of attention given to this topic is [also] disproportionate [to the] information provided about the islets themselves". However, I don't see any ''problem'' there -- we assign exactly the '''due''' weight (proportional to weight used by our sources) to that particular aspect. [[User:No such user|No such user]] ([[User talk:No such user|talk]]) 14:36, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

::This seems to be an [[WP:OSE]] argument. And maybe indeed, the article about Imia/Kardak should be renamed to better reflect the topic it describes. I don’t think, however, you can compare the relevance of the controversy surrounding the funny name of an Austrian village with a military crisis and subsequent dispute over an Aegean island that started in the 19th century and continues to this day. The fact that a vast amount of sources on the Internet are dedicated to the strange names of villages, does not reflect encyclopedic notability. Wikipedia is not a repository of information found in tabloids and anecdotal websites. The issue can be mentioned, but certainly not with every detail that is now included. [[User:Tridek Sep|Tridek Sep]] ([[User talk:Tridek Sep|talk]]) 16:15, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

:::So, would you rather assist in detecting sources that focus more on demographics, economy and culture of Fucking, population 93, or you just prefer drive-by tagging? How does that tag ''help'' anyone? How do you propose that we "fix" this "problem"? I've told you already that the only reason why this village is interesting for ''anyone'' is its name, and that's what the sources focus on (did you read them). For comparison, its municipal seat of [[Tarsdorf]], pop. 2000, is a substub with infobox and nothing else. Should we delete all the material from this article that is, um, actually ''interesting'' to make it more like Tarsdorf, which was (un)fortunate to have a dull name? [[User:No such user|No such user]] ([[User talk:No such user|talk]]) 21:08, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

::::It would be foolish to further elaborate on the demographics, economy or culture of a village with only a few inhabitants. I rather suggest to limit the amount of space given to the section ‘popularity and notoriety’. This is what I meant when I wrote: ''The issue can be mentioned, but certainly not with every detail that is now included''. I apologise if I made myself not clear enough. I also want to point out that ''being interesting'' is not and has never been accepted as an excuse to include trivial information on Wikipedia, hence my reference to the concept of ''encyclopedic notability''. You do however add an interesting note when you mention that the article about Tarsdorf (pop. 2,000) is a substub (it only has two sentences!). Even the articles on the region of [[Innviertel]] (pop. 215,000) and the entire state of [[Upper Austria]] (pop. 1.4 million) are smaller than the article about this little town in question. This is my point exactly. [[User:Tridek Sep|Tridek Sep]] ([[User talk:Tridek Sep|talk]]) 01:30, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::So find something sufficiently interesting about those places to flesh them out, if you wish; your argument seems to be [[WP:OTHER STUFF DOESNT EXIST]], which isn't really any more useful than its opposite. [[User:Jpgordon|--jpgordon]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Jpgordon|::==( o )]]</small></sup> 04:57, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

::::::The policy you are referring to seems to be non-existent, hence the red link. ''Other stuff doesn’t exist'' is a characteristic of an undue weight problem, though. And while expanding the articles I mentioned would be a good idea, it does not solve the other issue I described. [[User:Tridek Sep|Tridek Sep]] ([[User talk:Tridek Sep|talk]]) 13:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Wow, I didn't know that's what a red link meant, and I've only been editing here a decade. Indeed, you are invoking a non-policy. Tell you what, why don't you use your sandbox and put together a version of this article that does not have the problems you describe; then we'll actually have something to discuss.  [[User:Jpgordon|--jpgordon]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Jpgordon|::==( o )]]</small></sup> 13:54, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

:::::::::From my experience, a red link indicates no such link exists. I am, however, impressed by the fact you've been editing here a decade. Congrats! [[User:Tridek Sep|Tridek Sep]] ([[User talk:Tridek Sep|talk]]) 15:01, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

::::::::::Since you like policy-based discussion, here's one for you, [[WP:BALASPS]] (bold mine): {{tq|An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject but should strive to '''treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to the weight of that aspect in the body of reliable sources on the subject'''.}} Now, if you [[google:Fucking Austria]], 95% of links (and that includes reliable sources therein, and our references as well) deal with just '''one''' aspect of the subject...<br>May I suggest that you're taking this issue way too seriously? An encyclopedia should include light-hearted subjects as well, and treat them appropriately, which I believe is the case in this article. But seriously, you aren't being helpful. [[User:No such user|No such user]] ([[User talk:No such user|talk]]) 10:31, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::::Editors should take things seriously. Rather than engage in such personal criticisms, it's better to note that none of [[User:Tridek Sep]]'s arguments are valid; in fact they are upside down. They mention [[WP:OSE]], which says "comparing with other articles is not, in general, a convincing argument" but then go on about how other articles are smaller than this one so this one should be smaller. They also misuse the notion of notability, which applies to the subject of an article in the context of whether the article should exist, not to individual facts in an article. At the moment, everything in the article is relevant and informative. [[User:Jibal|Jibal]] ([[User talk:Jibal|talk]]) 00:04, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

== Why start class? ==

C'mon, this is almost a B-class article! This town isn't even big. It has like a population of 100. There has been an adequate description and a long and interesting history. There's even no citation needed places! Why is it still in Start class? 

Rant by [[User:Kevon kevono|Kevon kevono]] ([[User talk:Kevon kevono|talk]]) 04:16, 4 May 2016 (UTC) (What the hell is UTC?) 21:15 (PT)

: Well, it got ''your'' attention, didn't it? – [[User:AndyFielding|AndyFielding]] ([[User talk:AndyFielding|talk]]) 09:48, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

== Neutrality ==

A gentle reminder to editors to adhere to the [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutrality policy]]. This article describes clearly differing viewpoints over whether the coincidental homograph with the English word is highly amusing or intensely tedious. Editors should make every effort '''not to take sides''' in this dispute. Where sentences are phrased in a way that creates ''double entendre'', this could be seen as taking sides with the view that it is amusing, so this should be avoided. Examples of this include using the place name adjectivally outside of direct quotations (e.g. ''Fucking street map'' instead of ''Street map of Fucking''). So too is excessive repetition of the place name beyond what is necessary for context, and inclusion of detail which labours the pun beyond what has been reported objectively in high quality sources (e.g. inclusion of references to other road signs which could be misinterpreted). The whole thing ought to read in such a way that it is not possible to tell whether editors consider it to be amusing (and I still have some concerns regarding the overall length). Thank you. --[[User:Money money tickle parsnip|Money money tickle parsnip]] ([[User talk:Money money tickle parsnip|talk]]) 06:44, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

:{{tq|Where sentences are phrased in a way that creates double entendre, this could be seen as taking sides with the view that it is amusing}}
:Lots of things ''could'' be seen by various parties in various ways, but that doesn't make them true or valid. I think this notion of two "sides" here is an invention with no merit. [[User:Jibal|Jibal]] ([[User talk:Jibal|talk]]) 00:08, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

:: Agreed. Besides, ask any comic—funny stuff is funniest when told with a straight face. – [[User:AndyFielding|AndyFielding]] ([[User talk:AndyFielding|talk]]) 09:50, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2017 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Fucking, Austria|answered=yes}}
I grew up in this town, and I want to make sure that the article reflects more about the history rather than the popular association with an offensive English word.  There is more to the town than that.[[User:JohannFromFuckingAustria|JohannFromFuckingAustria]] ([[User talk:JohannFromFuckingAustria|talk]]) 21:23, 17 March 2017 (UTC) [[User:JohannFromFuckingAustria|JohannFromFuckingAustria]] ([[User talk:JohannFromFuckingAustria|talk]]) 21:23, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' this is not the right page to [[Wikipedia:Requests for permissions|request]] additional [[Wikipedia:User access levels|user rights]]. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|an account]], you can wait until you are [[Wikipedia:User access levels#Autoconfirmed and confirmed users|autoconfirmed]] and edit the page yourself.<!-- Template:ESp --> '''[[User:NotTheFakeJTP|<span style="color: red">JTP</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:NotTheFakeJTP|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/NotTheFakeJTP|contribs]])</sup>''' 22:23, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

==Merge==
There is no need for separate articles about the town and the sign for the town.  Much of the detail from the sign article is already included in the town article, anything else of note can be merged.  This is creating spin-off articles for the sake of creating DYK nominations, in what appears to be an attempt to game the system; this seems to be more prevalent lately.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 08:46, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' As to merge the sign info into here would violate [[WP:UNDUE]] by giving more weight to the sign rather than the village. The village is not its sign alone. If anything, the sign info in here should be put in the sign article to balance it out. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<span style="color:red;">The C of E  </span><span style="color:blue;"> God Save the Queen!</span>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<span style="color:darkblue;">talk</span>]])</span> 09:28, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
*:And having a standalone article on a sign isn't [[WP:UNDUE]]?  Especially when most, if not all, the information in the sign article would easily merge into the town article.  This appears to be gaming the system to create unnecessary forks for DYK purposes.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 10:42, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
**:I agree entirely. [[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] ([[User talk:Prioryman|talk]]) 12:22, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::::[[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] You agree with whom?  Do you have a position?  Or a vote?  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 12:53, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' and '''Keep''' <s> or Merge</s> Lots of sources.   More and different content. No compliance with [[WP:Before]]. <s>Article has been around a long time, and</s> This brouhaha is about the [[Template:Did you know nominations/Fucking sign|DYK]], even as you opine that it isn't.  Where have you been all these years?  And this is about the sign, not about the town.  I also incorporate by reference the reasoning of [[User:The C of E]]  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 13:41, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
*:The sign is already covered in the town article, as it should be.  All information here that isn't already in the town article can be merged in.  By the way, Before relates to deletion, this is ''merging''.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 13:53, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
:As a point of clarification, this article started as a redirect in 2008 and has only now been expanded. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 14:23, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::I don't understand your vote.  "keep" and "merge" are diametrically opposite in a merge discussion.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 14:40, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Clarify.  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 14:57, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::::Wow.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 14:58, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::You asked, I accommodated.  Violation of the [[The Art of Cross-Examination|rules of cross examination]].  Wellman says, "Don't insist on an answer."  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 15:10, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::No, no, not at all, I'm just amazed by how confused this has all become.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 15:13, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::In part because it is a [[Masquerade|masked ball]].  Things are not what they seem.  And we have a [[conflicts of laws]] problem, where one part of the project and their rules may not agree with other parts.  We also have questions of "intent," which includes arguments about 'gaming the system' and impugning motivations of editors (all of whom are volunteers and are needed).  The relationships are way more important than the outcome. We have a shared community of interest.  It is a microcosm of what has gone wrong in Wikipedia. This is ugly and complicated.
:::::::Needlessly so.  Over something that is so [[de minimus|miniscule]] that it doesn't really matter.
:::::::When you scrape away the turds, you still have shit on your boot.  Just sayin ...   <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 15:42, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::I think it's more of a clear demonstration of what damage DYK is doing in some quarters of the encyclopedia, but your mileage may vary. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 15:59, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
I've nominated the article for deletion, as there clearly isn't anything worth merging. See [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fucking sign]]. [[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] ([[User talk:Prioryman|talk]]) 19:46, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

==Merge take II==
{{Archive top 
|result = Closing this discussion per a request at [[WP:ANRFC]].

It seems clear that the majority of participants at the AfD believed we do not need a separate article just for the village's sign. The "no consensus" was with regards to whether the solution was outright deletion vs merging. However, closer reading shows there is a strong bent towards merging & redirecting, even in the delete votes: some of the delete comments in the AfD actually went on to suggest merging the content, despite being marked as "delete". Others voted delete on the basis that there was little original content worth merging in the first place (which suggests that they weren't opposed to a merge in principle). All of that suggests there was more support for merge & redirect than it appeared on the face of things.

Clear arguments for M&R have been made in this discussion and the AfD, particularly {{U|Crow}}'s rebuttal that the sign's coverage in the article isn't undue weight, since the majority of the village's press is as a result of the name and the sign. A random sign that said "fucking" would be unimportant except that in this case it is an amusing placename. Conversely, no one would care about this tiny village except for its name. The two are inextricably connected via the name. Coverage of the amusing sign is, inherently, coverage of the village and its amusing name. If "Fucking" signs started to pop up all over the place for some reason, and coverage of the signs became separated from that of the original village, I could see an argument for a separate sign article. But as it is, the Fucking sign is only significant because Fucking is a funny-sounding name for a place to live.

I will redirect the article back to the town. Editors can decide to merge anything relevant after that. &spades;[[User:Premeditated Chaos|PMC]]&spades; [[User_talk:Premeditated Chaos|(talk)]] 22:38, 28 April 2017 (UTC) 
|status = merge and redirect }}
*''Should [[Fucking sign]] be merged into this article on the grounds of a lack of independent [[WP:N|notability]] and as a [[WP:REDUNDANTFORK|redundant content fork]] of [[Fucking, Austria#Sign]], of which it is a paraphrase?'' <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] ([[User talk:Prioryman#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Prioryman|contribs]]) 19:25, 12 April 2017 (UTC)</small>

Ok, so the AFD was somewhat curiously closed with keep as the outcome, regardless of the plethora of non-keep votes.  So I've restored the merge templates as my reading of those involved in the AFD was a clear and distinct consensus to either delete or merge.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 16:10, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' for reasons previously stated.  Merger proposal was closed.  [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fucking sign|Deletion proposal]] was closed as '''keep'''.  This is just forum shopping and motions for rehearing.  Serial proposals are b.s. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 18:13, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::The merger was closed prematurely (less than 12 hours with little input besides those with the vested interest in the article's ongoing existence) as the article was nominated for deletion.  This is just a continuation of the process which now actually reflects the community's feelings about this article.  Calling this "bullshit" is unhelpful.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 18:15, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::The AFD was '''not closed as keep''', it was closed as no consensus to delete.  The closure was particularly odd since at least a dozen contributors suggested either delete, or merge whatever was there and delete/redirect, while a tiny minority said "keep".  Please keep to the facts.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 18:35, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''. - Yes exactly the Afd was closed hours ago with no consensus to merge or delete. A previous Merge discussion above less than a month ago did not come to a merge consensus either. Perhaps it is time to realise were this is heading.--[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 18:32, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::The merge discussion was closed '''because the article was nominated for deletion''', not because a consensus was achieved.  You can see that, it was only open for 12 hours.  Please don't spin this.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 18:33, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' It might be useful to ping {{ping|Mjroots}} here; I've seen some admins close discussions like this explicitly as "merge and redirect", but others won't close an AFD this way, and instead say "keep" but mean "keep, because merging and redirecting does not require AFD, and this should not be literally deleted". I certainly don't think it's likely that Mjroots meant "keep and don't merge", but if he did, that's good to know too.  Asking for his clarification is quick and easy and useful. --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 18:52, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::Already done, not helpful. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 18:54, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:::I'm happy to clarify. I have no strong feelings re keep, merge or delete. What I said to TRM was that if an editor was to be [[WP:BOLD]] and merge, then that would be fine. However, if another editor was to revert the merge, then it goes back to keeping the article whilst the issue is discussed, per [[WP:BRD]]. Such discussion ''could'' take the form of another AFD (which I will not participate in, in any capacity per [[WP:INVOLVED]]), or further discussion at talk. [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 18:59, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::::So if I can put words in your mouth, you ''don't'' see this merge discussion immediately after the AFD close as forum shopping or anything, but a natural next step in reaction to the decision not to actually delete. Right?  --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 19:05, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::I've been [[WP:BOLD]] and "merged" and redirected the spin-off article. I say "merged" in quotation marks because every piece of content in the spin-off article was copied from this article. There is literally no new content to merge. Actually, the one item of content which ''is'' different is wrong: the editor who created the spin-off article credulously reported a hoax from the Daily Mirror as true, whereas ''this'' article gets it right. A poor job all round. [[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] ([[User talk:Prioryman|talk]]) 19:10, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::No doubt some will see it as forum shopping. I think it is better that the issue is discussed rather than an editor throwing his/her toys out of the pram because they didn't get the exact result they wished for. At least it wasn't immediately sent to [[WP:DRV]]! [[User:Mjroots|Mjroots]] ([[User talk:Mjroots|talk]]) 19:13, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::::I don't think it was a "wrong" decision by the closing admin, though some of the !votes in the discussion were on remarkably stupid grounds. A second AFD is another option, as you say. [[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] ([[User talk:Prioryman|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

My actions are totally legit. The afd foreclose the merger nom inside 12 hours. The afd achieved nothing, i.e. Maintained the status quo. Reactivating the merge discussion based on the strong consensus at the afd was absolutely not forum shopping. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 19:24, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:I agree entirely. [[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] ([[User talk:Prioryman|talk]]) 19:35, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:: To merge the article is simply wrong. Especially after a Afd abd two Merge discussions has not reached a consensus for it. I smell somethong fishy here. --[[User:BabbaQ|BabbaQ]] ([[User talk:BabbaQ|talk]]) 19:40, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:::I don't know what you're talking about.  The AfD said "no consensus to delete", the first merge discussion ran for twelve hours and was closed early for the AFD, and the second merge discussion is ongoing.  In the meantime, someone has done the sensible thing and redirected the sign to the town.  Nothing "fishy" at all.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 19:43, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::::Talk about a rush to judgment and forum shopping.  [[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] showed his contempt for this ongoing discussion with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fucking_sign&oldid=774959766 this edit].  Wow!  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 21:10, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::I don't think you understand what forum shopping means, it certainly hasn't taken place in this scenario. If you like me to try to explain it one more time, I'm happy to do so. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::As a practicing lawyer I have litigated the issue.  And won.  Have you?  Meanwhile, you start another discussion and then preempt the result.  First the hanging, then the trial?   Would you like me to explain how decisions are supposed to be made in Wikipedia?  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 21:23, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::::You're missing the point, again. I'll leave it to someone else to explain. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 21:24, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::::You're missing the point, again. I'll leave it to someone else to explain.  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 21:46, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Merge and redirect''' if anyone can find ''anything'' to merge into the main article that is actually reliably sourced that is, if not, just '''redirect'''.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 22:49, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Merge/RD''' Yes, the AfD was closed with no consensus to delete, but looking at it another way, there were ~2:1 who wanted "something other than keeping the article", that is, to delete, merge, or redirect it. I can see no good reason why this warrants its own article. Even if one wants to get punny with the adjectival use of the name, one can do so in the town's article. [[User:Crow|<font color="black">'''Crow'''</font>]][[User talk:Crow|<font color="black"><sup><small>''Caw''</small></sup></font>]] 23:02, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
:*Looking deeper into folks' arguments in the above 2 sections, I'm even more unsure why this warrants its own article. The only fact in the Sign article that's not in the Town article is that the sign is made to [[Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals]] standards. Beyond that, the Town article goes into much better detail. Repeating what I said in the AfD, WP:UNDUE doesn't say that you can't focus heavily on one aspect of the topic, but that you must balance focus according to the amount of coverage each aspect gets. Since the sign gets the most press, it is logical and sensible that the article's focus be the same. [[User:Crow|<font color="black">'''Crow'''</font>]][[User talk:Crow|<font color="black"><sup><small>''Caw''</small></sup></font>]] 23:25, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' As per the reasons I gave above. Plus just because the AFD was closed with a result that that the person proposing this merge didn't like, I fail to see why we should persist in persecution of this article with a double-jeopardy (or technically triple-jeopardy) merge discussion being opened. I think we really need to consider [[WP:STICK]] here. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<span style="color:red;">The C of E  </span><span style="color:blue;"> God Save the Queen!</span>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<span style="color:darkblue;">talk</span>]])</span> 20:52, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
*:No, it's not that I didn't like it (I didn't understand it, but that's another issue), and it's not even single jeopardy.  Please read carefully:  the initial proposed merger was never completed, only having been open for 12 hours, as the article was AFD'ed.  The AFD closed as "no consensus to delete" but clearly there was a large majority in favour of merging or deleting and redirecting.  The closing admin made it clear to me that there was no issue with continuing the merge discussion, that's where we are now.  Nothing is being "persecuted", no "stick" is required to be dropped, spinning off articles unnecessarily just for points in the WikiCup needs to stop.  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 21:00, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
*:I would add my own explanation as well. As I see it (in late to this whole thing, admittedly), the original merge discussion was mooted by the AfD. The AfD resulted in No Consensus, so I just see this as trying to find a consensus after one misfire and one inconclusive discussion. Personally, I (and at least one other) feel it should go one way, but if we can get to something resembling a consensus either way, then I'll support and defend that even if it was not the way I would have done it. I just would like to get there, is all. No forum-shopping, triple-jeopardy, flogging the horse, or anything like that. [[User:Crow|<font color="black">'''Crow'''</font>]][[User talk:Crow|<font color="black"><sup><small>''Caw''</small></sup></font>]] 22:30, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
*{{Possilikely}} I see valid arguments both for and against merging the sign and keeping it separate from the article of the town. My main problem is if the sign can stand on its two feet attracting and directing users through the site. I know there are articles ''like'' the sign that exist on its own, but I don't know how commonplace they are. I can see both a section for the sign hogging all the attention on the village's article, but I also can see the sign slowly rotting and abandoned with tags, barely above stub length if it was on its own. Contentious.--<font face="Constantia"><small>[[User:Sigehelmus|<font color="DarkKhaki">'''Sıgehelmus'''</font>]] [[User talk:Sigehelmus|<font color="Coal">''' (Talk) &#124;д=)'''</font>]]</small></font> 21:20, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
:*To me, that's one of a half-dozen reasons why this is a bad fork. Even right now, the 2 articles aren't close in their coverage (the fork should have more info than the main, one would think), and indeed they disagree on what seems like a major point: Whether the "proposed rename" of the town was a hoax or not. Town page says yes, Sign page says no. Regardless of the outcome here, these items need to be addressed, no? [[User:Crow|<font color="black">'''Crow'''</font>]][[User talk:Crow|<font color="black"><sup><small>''Caw''</small></sup></font>]] 22:44, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
:::*I'm not well-informed about that situation. I just know I'm slightly learning towards "Merge" for the article.--<font face="Constantia"><small>[[User:Sigehelmus|<font color="DarkKhaki">'''Sıgehelmus'''</font>]] [[User talk:Sigehelmus|<font color="Coal">''' (Talk) &#124;д=)'''</font>]]</small></font> 23:53, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
::::*I'd just like to point out that the hoax was around changing the name in the 2010s because of relation to [[Fugging]]. The Fucking sign article references an earlier motion that occurred in the 90s.
:::::*Quite so, my mistake. [[User:Crow|<font color="black">'''Crow'''</font>]][[User talk:Crow|<font color="black"><sup><small>''Caw''</small></sup></font>]] 15:50, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
*I !voted to '''merge and redirect''' at the AfD and I find the close baffling.  The arguments above that a complete merge discussion has yet to occur are correct as the discussion above was halted for the AfD and the close of the AfD shows merging was not considered (because it obviously had consensus &ndash; there was simply no ''deletion'' consensus.  This fork is not needed, not suitable, and not reasonably down.  TRM is correct, if there is anything to merge, do so... then redirect.  [[User:EdChem|EdChem]] ([[User talk:EdChem|talk]]) 07:58, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Merge and redirect'''. Is there a single academic work dedicated to this sign or this and similar signs? The article about the village could cover the subject. [[User:Borsoka|Borsoka]] ([[User talk:Borsoka|talk]]) 06:00, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Merge and redirect'''. Concur with argument stated above. There is no reason why the sign needs its own page; it can easily be covered by a single section on this page. <span style="background-color:blue; color:;">[[User:1618033golden|<span style="color:#FFFFFF">'''1.6180339887'''</span>]]<span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User talk:1618033golden|<span style="color:#D4AC0D"> ''golden''</span>]]</span></span><sup>[[Special:Contributions/1618033golden|sqᴉɹʇuoɔ]]</sup> 21:57, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Merge and redirect'''. The spin-off is a fake article - it appears to have been created by copying the content from the sign section of this page, then paraphrasing it to disguise its origins. There is no content in the spin-off article that doesn't exist in the original other than the incompetent presentation of a tabloid hoax as a fact. I don't think it was created in good faith, and it has no good reason to exist. [[User:Prioryman|Prioryman]] ([[User talk:Prioryman|talk]]) 08:28, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Merge and redirect''', per previous arguments given.  [[User:Basawala|<font color="forestgreen">'''ʙʌ'''</font><font color="lightseagreen">'''sʌwʌʟʌ'''</font>]] [[User talk:Basawala|<font color="Navy"><sup>'''тʌʟк'''</sup></font>]] 04:41, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Merge and redirect'''. If the town didn't have this name and the sign that goes with that name, it would be one of those short, one sentence geographic stubs that are all over Wikipedia. No need to have two articles. ---- [[User:Patar knight|Patar knight]] - <sup>[[User talk:Patar knight|chat]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Patar knight|contributions]]</sub> 17:09, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
* '''Redirect and don't bother to merge'''. Although I have the article on my watchlist, I missed the show. We're way too lenient on undiscussed content forks such as this one. When a split is challenged, the fork should immediately follow the BRD cycle, instead of going through a thousand hoops as happened here. The forked article is unnecessary and mostly useless. [[User:No such user|No such user]] ([[User talk:No such user|talk]]) 20:39, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Merge and redirect''' I would have supported delete or merge in the AfD. This is likely a standalone article for humor, as Prioryman points out. <span class="nowrap" style="font-family:copperplate gothic light;">[[User:Chris troutman|<span style="color:#345">Chris Troutman</span>]] ([[User talk:Chris troutman|<span style="color:#345">talk</span>]])</span> 20:59, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' are we done here now?  I've been insulted and insulted and insulted over this, yet it transpires that my original opinion is what the overwhelming consensus of the community opines as well.  It's time to call this to an end, and learn at least one lesson: don't create content forks when they're simply not required, regardless of the intent in doing so....  [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 21:03, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
* '''Merge and redirect''' – Obvious. — [[User:JFG|JFG]] <sup>[[User talk:JFG|talk]]</sup> 21:23, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
{{Archive bottom}}
== "F**king" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[F**king]]. Please participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 October 21#F**king|the redirect discussion]] if you wish to do so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> --[[User:Soumya-8974|Soumyabrata]] ([[User talk:Soumya-8974|talk]] • [[Special:PrefixIndex/User:Soumya-8974|subpages]]) 14:59, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
== "Fooking, Austria" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Fooking, Austria]]. Please participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 March 8#Fooking, Austria|the redirect discussion]] if you wish to do so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> <sub>signed, </sub>[[User:Rosguill|'''''Rosguill''''']] <sup>[[User talk:Rosguill|''talk'']]</sup> 19:57, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

== Profane word? ==

The intro states that 'fuck' is a profane word. It can be used in a profane manner, but that doesn't mean the word itself is profane, right? Note that I am not a native English speaker, so I'm not sure. [[User:DirkvdM|DirkvdM]] ([[User talk:DirkvdM|talk]]) 08:21, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

:"Fuck" is definitely profane. [[User:A50E10AN500ER|A50E10AN500ER]] ([[User talk:A50E10AN500ER|talk]]) 01:08, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
::{{reply|DirkvdM}} It's profane only to native English-speakers. Our article [[seven dirty words]] is interesting reading too, about American comedian George Carlin's famous monologue about words you can't say on television. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 14:59, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
:::It's profane in English. Whether an English speaker is "native" is irrelevant. [[User:Jibal|Jibal]] ([[User talk:Jibal|talk]]) 00:12, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

== Move discussion in progress ==

There is a move discussion in progress on [[Talk:Fugging#Requested move 27 November 2020 |Talk:Fugging]] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Fugging crosspost --> —[[User:RMCD bot|RMCD bot]] 11:05, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

== Inaccurate pronunciation information ==

I would like to point out that this passage:

"In their 17 November 2020 session, the council of Tarsdorf voted to have the village's name officially changed to Fugging (pronounced [ˈfʊgɪŋ]), effective from 1 January 2021."

is not accurate, and I suggest to either remove the pronunciation part entirely, or change it to [ˈfʊkɪŋ].

As a German native speaker from Upper Austria, I have to say that in most Austrian German varieties in general, and in the dialect spoken in the region in particular, "Fucking" and "Fugging" are homonyms. A local person – even when speaking in Austrian Standard German – would pronounce both the same. Generally Danbuian-Bavarian variations of German barely differentiate between hard and soft consonants (e.g. b-p, d-t, g-k). The only big difference is the vowel length of the preceding vowel. A soft consonant indicates a long vowel (Fuge, Möbel), while a hard consonant indicates a short vowel (Mappe, Decke, Futter).  Generally double consonants indicate that the given consonant is prounced "harder". Therefore a double G is prononced almost like, or just like a K in Upper Austria, since Ks (even "hard" Ks that are written as ck) are pronounced very softly here (e.g. Mücke is pronounced like Muggn), with little to no aspiration.

An inhabitant of Fucking/Fugging will pronounce the new name exactly the same as the old one (which is the whole point of renaming this village to a name so similar).

Other examples of gg place names in the region: Ardagger, Eggenberg, Deggendorf, Waldegg, Eggerding (which happens to be close to Ober- and Unterfucking).

E.g. in the case of Ardagger the etymology is that -agger comes from Acker which means field. So ck and gg in placenames are used interchangeably in the Danube-Bavarian language region.

I do not think that basing pronounciation guides on writing alone is very helpful. Better to base it on the way local pronounce it.

The same applies to the parallel article on Fugging {{User|Wurm und Klang}} 17:05, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
:I agree. I never liked seeing IPA pronunciation coding on Wikipedia because only linguists can understand it. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 17:53, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

== Fucking sign revisited ==

I was thinking, in light of the move of the Fucking name into history and the recent move discussion to move the Fucking article to its new name in the new year: I was wondering whether it might be worthwhile revisiting the notion of having a separate article for the [[Fucking sign]]? Only since it will then be a historical Fucking artifact rather than something still a part of the former Fucking village.  <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<span style="color:red;">The C of E  </span><span style="color:blue;"> God Save the Queen!</span>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<span style="color:darkblue;">talk</span>]])</span> 11:43, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
:Anyone have any thoughts? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<span style="color:red;">The C of E  </span><span style="color:blue;"> God Save the Queen!</span>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<span style="color:darkblue;">talk</span>]])</span> 15:01, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
::I have mixed feelings. When the name of this article changes, the old title will redirect to the new one. The article can still retain all of its encyclopedic content about its old name (in fact, the old name is the primary thing that makes the town notable), so I am not sure if it's necessary to have a separate article about the sign. The old content isn't going to disappear. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 15:16, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
:::My thoughts were that given from the 1st, the sign is going to be outdated, it then takes on the factor of a historical curiosity since it would no longer be in use.  <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<span style="color:red;">The C of E  </span><span style="color:blue;"> God Save the Queen!</span>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<span style="color:darkblue;">talk</span>]])</span> 16:58, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
:::I don't agree that the name is the "primary thing that makes the town notable" - this settlement dates back to the 1100s,and presumably has a rich history outside of its recent notoriety on English social media and bathroom-shelf books - but on the whole I probably agree with Anachronist that a spinoff article would be overkill. There isn't that much to say about the sign, and this isn't a hugely long article to start with. I think it's a great shame that they've made this decision, but I guess it's not my village! Cheers &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 18:46, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

I think we just need to add a Fucking section in this article where it will talk about it's notoriety and it's former Fucking name [[User:PyroFloe|PyroFloe]] ([[User talk:PyroFloe|talk]]) 18:05, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
:There'll be plenty to talk about Fucking on this. I think we all love Fucking and are sad to see it go. Think of the poor Fucking children! <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<span style="color:red;">The C of E  </span><span style="color:blue;"> God Save the Queen!</span>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<span style="color:darkblue;">talk</span>]])</span> 18:48, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
::{{tq|Think of the poor fucking children}}{{snd}}Pardon me, but as the wise man said: "[https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/deep-thoughts-on-children/n10383 I believe in making the world safe for our children, but not our children's children, because I don't think children should be having sex.]" [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:02, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
: I disagree. The sign is not notable on its own. Let's keep it tucked in the history section. --- [[User:Running|Running]] 11:31, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

== It is now Fugging ==

Hello,

It is now the 1st of Jan. The name is now officially Fugging, not Fucking.

[[User:RealLifeLorefan80|RealLifeLorefan80]] ([[User talk:RealLifeLorefan80|talk]]) 23:23, 31 December 2020 (UTC) note it was 1 Jan in Aussie Time, when I posted this.

:OK. How are we going to deal with this? Are we going to move this to [[Fugging, Upper Austria]]? I tried, but wasn't allowed to for whatever reason. [[User:Jpgordon|--jpgordon]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Jpgordon|&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; ]]</small></sup> 01:26, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Yep, and name the other one Fugging, Lower Austria. I've also tried it but I am also not allowed. Perhaps only admins can do this?

[[User:RealLifeLorefan80|RealLifeLorefan80]] ([[User talk:RealLifeLorefan80|talk]]) 04:38, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
:I am an admin. So there's some combination of existing articles or redirects getting in my way. [[User:Jpgordon|--jpgordon]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Jpgordon|&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; ]]</small></sup> 04:49, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
::Well, whatever it was, I got it done.[[User:Jpgordon|--jpgordon]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Jpgordon|&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; ]]</small></sup> 04:55, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't check your user page for that.

[[User:RealLifeLorefan80|RealLifeLorefan80]] ([[User talk:RealLifeLorefan80|talk]]) 06:42, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

:so, it's basically https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/174/359/793.png [[Special:Contributions/79.185.3.174|79.185.3.174]] ([[User talk:79.185.3.174|talk]]) 21:29, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

== Discrepancy ==

Was the village renamed in 2021 or late 2020? Both are mentioned.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Qwerfjkl|Qwerfjkl]] ([[User talk:Qwerfjkl#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Qwerfjkl|contribs]]) 21:36, 18 March 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The vote was in 2020 but the change only became effective in 2021. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<span style="color:red;">The C of E  </span><span style="color:blue;"> God Save the Queen!</span>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<span style="color:darkblue;">talk</span>]])</span> 21:40, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

:: I wasn't ther—but I'm guessing that some people were managing to steal the signs anyway, right? – [[User:AndyFielding|AndyFielding]] ([[User talk:AndyFielding|talk]]) 09:52, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

:::Oops, that was supposed to be "there". For some reason, the mobile version of WP's Talk editor only lets us add posts, not edit them. (Does this mean we stop being editors?) – [[User:AndyFielding|AndyFielding]] ([[User talk:AndyFielding|talk]]) 09:55, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

== Why is it called swear word? ==

Please WHY! Thank goodness they changed it. [[User:Francisco Nubuelas|Francisco Nubuelas]] ([[User talk:Francisco Nubuelas|talk]]) 10:57, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
:Fucking is not a swear word in German. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<span style="color:red;">The C of E  </span><span style="color:blue;"> God Save the Queen!</span>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<span style="color:darkblue;">talk</span>]])</span> 12:12, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

== Great name! ==

Why don't we have cool town names in USA? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:401:4300:8d80:846d:5015:e08d:e9fd|2601:401:4300:8d80:846d:5015:e08d:e9fd]] ([[User talk:2601:401:4300:8d80:846d:5015:e08d:e9fd#top|talk]]) 01:54, 5 April 2021 (UTC)</small>

:I mean, we ''do'' have [[Intercourse, Pennsylvania]]. [[Special:Contributions/67.87.219.120|67.87.219.120]] ([[User talk:67.87.219.120|talk]]) 22:50, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

::I always thought [[Bucksnort, Tennessee]] was an interesting name. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 01:37, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

::[https://www.estately.com/blog/2016/09/the-complete-list-of-lewd-sounding-town-names-in-america/ Complete List of Lewd-Sounding Town Names in America] [[User:AndyFielding|AndyFielding]] ([[User talk:AndyFielding|talk]]) 09:57, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 4 July 2021 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Fugging, Upper Austria|answered=yes}}
Add to "In Popular Culture" 
Was featured in the Amazon Prime series "The Grand Tour" - Season 1, Episode 12 "[censored] to [censored]. 

Sources:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6068854/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl#summary-po3092963

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Grand_Tour_episodes#Series_1_(2016%E2%80%9317) [[Special:Contributions/2603:6011:9206:7AA:EDD0:EAF2:BE4D:C79F|2603:6011:9206:7AA:EDD0:EAF2:BE4D:C79F]] ([[User talk:2603:6011:9206:7AA:EDD0:EAF2:BE4D:C79F|talk]]) 01:06, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

:{{not done}}. The town of Fugging or Fucking isn't even mentioned in those pages or in their citations, so it hardly seems that it was "featured" in the show, but at most merely mentioned. Doesn't seem significant to include in this article. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 01:37, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

== New sign  ==

[[file:Fugging 2021.jpg|thumb|right]]
Please update the image in the info box to the new sign [[User:Greek king|Greek king]] ([[User talk:Greek king|talk]]) 13:18, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
:{{done}}. Moved old sign into the section about the name. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 14:47, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion ==
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
* [[commons:File:Fugging 2021.jpg|Fugging 2021.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: speedy | 2021-08-23T04:53:15.439389 | Fugging 2021.jpg -->
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 04:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

== Name change, and YouTube ==

Is it worth noting that the official reason given for the name change, a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMEYjYLKYf0 video] by YouTuber Albert Soap that lead to the perceived disturbance of the locals, and unwanted attention,([https://web.archive.org/web/20210413214027if_/https://www.tarsdorf.at/system/web/GetDocument.ashx?fileId=2622666&cts=1616666836 source]) has led directly to a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPzKwJu41oM second video] by the same YouTuber? In that video, they return to the village. Ironically, the second video has gained a lot more attention than the first one, at least judging from the numbers of views and comments. [[User:Renerpho|Renerpho]] ([[User talk:Renerpho|talk]]) 23:52, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

== Converting audio pronunciation from .wav to .ogg ==

NEVER EVER upload a .wav file. Both mp3 and ogg will let you play the sound file online. Most browsers will force you to download the .wav.

I do not know why it isn't showing up. The semi-protected status possibly? [[User:MiroslavGlavic|MiroslavGlavic]] ([[User talk:MiroslavGlavic|talk]]) 19:39, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

== One of WP's best quotes ever ==

:''Augustina Lindlbauer, the manager of an area guesthouse . . . had to explain to a British tourist 'that there were no Fucking postcards'.''
Sorry, but I just had to express my appreciation of that passage in a Talk post. Sometimes the most serious content is irredeemably funny. – [[User:AndyFielding|AndyFielding]] ([[User talk:AndyFielding|talk]]) 10:05, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
::Alas, we no longer get to enjoy all those Fucking jokes. It seems the internet got too keen on Fucking and the poor Fuckers who live there had enough of their Fucking being mocked. ;) <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.5em 0.5em 0.6em;"> '''[[User:The C of E|<span style="color:red;">The C of E </span><span style="color:blue;"> God Save the King!</span>]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|<span style="color:darkblue;">talk</span>]])</span> 10:09, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

== This article is deeply offensive for constantly using profanities with seemingly little care. Why aren't these censored or removed? ==

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that particular word is the name of a place. But a website like Wikipedia where everyone including children can access shouldn't be able to see an article that constantly spouts profanities. Even if its true that the people in the village use that word freely in their dialogues, why can't these be modified or paraphrased so there's not a single unnecessary vulgarity? The idea that this page exists with so much foul language is ridiculous and offensive on its own.

Am I the only one who thinks that? [[Special:Contributions/122.11.237.26|122.11.237.26]] ([[User talk:122.11.237.26|talk]]) 07:39, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
:Please read the "Wikipedia is not censored" box at the top of this talk page. [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 08:05, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

== Which dialect? ==

The section [[Fugging,_Upper_Austria#Name_change | Name Change ]] states "voted...to have the village's name officially changed to Fugging (pronounced the same as Fucking in the dialect spoken in the region". It would be good to revise "in the dialect" to "in [name of dialect], the dialect". I would do it myself but I don't know which dialect they are referring to.

Further, the part about the pronunciation being the same is not in any of the three references cited, so a reference to that assertion needs to be added. [[User:Thisisnotatest|Thisisnotatest]] ([[User talk:Thisisnotatest|talk]]) 08:32, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

:Hello, {{u|ButterCashier}} , I am puzzled as to why you reverted my edit. I was unable to find a reference to the pronunciation in the local dialect in any of the three references. Did I miss something in one of the references? [[User:Thisisnotatest|Thisisnotatest]] ([[User talk:Thisisnotatest|talk]]) 07:20, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
::Hi and thanks for editing! I revert a lot of vandalism, I think my revert in this case may have been misjudged. I apologise and wish you the best in future edits. If you want to talk to me more, please use my [[User talk:ButterCashier|talk page]]. [[User:ButterCashier|ButterCashier]] ([[User talk:ButterCashier|talk]]) 07:25, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::{{u|ButterCashier}}, sorry, nevermind, I just saw that the reference has been removed from the article, making my edit moot. Carry on. [[User:Thisisnotatest|Thisisnotatest]] ([[User talk:Thisisnotatest|talk]]) 07:27, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

== Reliability of reference for quote ==

The quote supposedly from a "local tour guide" in the Popularity and notoriety sections references this article https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/this-towns-a-f-joke-555249 as a source. The "local tour guide" is not named, and the other quotations in the article suggest that this is a comic piece of commentary, rather than accurate quotations from locals. [[User:Burgess-pedia|Burgess-pedia]] ([[User talk:Burgess-pedia|talk]]) 20:01, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

== Change River "Inn" to "Salzach" ==

{{edit semi-protected|Fugging, Upper Austria|answered=yes}}
In the line "It is 33 km (21 mi) north of Salzburg and 4 km (2.5 mi) east of the Inn river, which forms part of the German border." Change the Inn River to the Salzach River. The Inn River is several more kilometers north of Fugging, while the Salzach River is the river which is 4km to its west. [[User:DaMaturant|DaMaturant]] ([[User talk:DaMaturant|talk]]) 23:14, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:AlphaBetaGamma|ABG]] <small> ([[User talk:AlphaBetaGamma|Talk/Report any mistakes here]]) </small> 03:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
::This seems a pretty clear-cut issue, one only needs to take a look at the map, the Salzach River is a tributary to the Inn River, and much closer to the village. [[User:Meskobalazs|Meskobalazs]] ([[User talk:Meskobalazs|talk]]) 16:42, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

== Does anyone want to add more jokes? ==

I will volunteer by tomorrow. Fucking Austrians naming their places with the word all over it. [[User:4094uo|4094uo]] ([[User talk:4094uo|talk]]) 13:41, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

:@[[User:4094uo|4094uo]] see [[WP:INDISCRIMINATE]] and [[MOS:TRIVIA]]. It is unlikely such material will be appropriate.  [[User:S0091|S0091]] ([[User talk:S0091|talk]]) 15:04, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

== Requested move 12 June 2025 ==

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:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color: var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] '''after''' discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''

The result of the move request was: '''not moved.''' <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small> [[User:Bensci54|Bensci54]] ([[User talk:Bensci54|talk]]) 16:16, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
----

[[:Fugging, Upper Austria]] → {{no redirect|Fucking, Austria}} – [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. The article was renamed because the official name changed, but Wikipedia does not use official names, see [[Belgaum]] and [[Aurangabad]]. [[User:KnowDeath|KnowDeath]] ([[User talk:KnowDeath|talk]]) 05:18, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Do you have evidence that current reliable sources are still using the old name?  See [[WP:NAMECHANGES]]. [[User:162 etc.|162 etc.]] ([[User talk:162 etc.|talk]]) 06:29, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
::[https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/jan/21/next-stop-twatt-my-tour-of-britains-fantastically-filthy-placenames]. I can't find many RS from after the name change that aren't about the name change.
::<br>
::And current reliable sources aren't the only thing that matter, older sources are still considered. There should've been a discussion where evidence that Fugging is the common name is presented. [[User:KnowDeath|KnowDeath]] ([[User talk:KnowDeath|talk]]) 07:51, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Probable oppose.''' I haven't looked for sources, but considering the reason the name was changed, it's ''very'' unlikely that post-rename sources continue to refer to it as Fucking. '''[[User:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">O.N.R.</span>]]'''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 06:57, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
::Considering that its funny name is the only reason it's famous, it's very likely. [[User:KnowDeath|KnowDeath]] ([[User talk:KnowDeath|talk]]) 07:56, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' unless the OP can provide evidence that the COMMONNAME has remained "Fucking" despite the official name change. [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 07:25, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
**Or anyone else provides such sources, of course. The sources I found from after the official name change use "Fugging", and those that mention "Fucking" simply do so in the context of discussing het name change. [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 23:10, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''', no sources cited. [[User:162 etc.|162 etc.]] ([[User talk:162 etc.|talk]]) 14:08, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
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