View source for Talk:Foreign relations of France

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== Proposed WikiProject ==

There is now a upstart WikiProject to establish a concensus about WP's International bilateral relations articles, including "X-Y (country) relations" articles, at [[Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Bilateral international relations]]. Interested parties should add their names at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject International relations/Bilateral relations task force]] if they wish to play a part in the discussions or have an Interest in this going forward. Thank you for your attention. [[User:CaribDigita|CaribDigita]] ([[User talk:CaribDigita|talk]]) 23:02, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

==Middle East ==
Am I the only one that thinks that the section on the Middle East is overly long compared to the other sections, and exhbibits considerable bias?
[[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]]

:So that we can try to fixup the section that talks about the Middle East, could you point out the statements where bias is showing so we can try to sort this out? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 05:37, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

:: I believe there are quite a few statements not backed by facts (they may be true, but no backing is provided).
:: for instance:
::* the article claims that though France had set an embargo on both sides of the conflicts in the middle-east, it sold arms to Arab countries, notably 100 Mirage fighters to Libya. Any backup?
::* the article claims that "French relations with the secular regimes of the Middle East has even encouraged terrorism, as supporters of these governments have often been targeted by religious extremists". Any facts to back that statement? While it is true that France has been targeted by extremists, what facts allow us to infer that France's relations in the middle-east was an incentive?
::* The last section claims that "France is a transshipment point for and consumer of South American cocaine and Southwest Asian heroin". Any backup?
::Furthermore, I think some parts should be rephrased. For instance the paragraph about the end of the algerian conflict is written in quite a "conspiracy style": "France could not portray itself as a leader of the oppressed nations of the world if it still was enforcing its colonial rule upon other nations", "With the conflict raging it would have been next to impossible for France to have had positive relations with the nations of the Middle East". The article gives the idea that the end of the Algerian war was nothing but part of a plot to gain control on the Middle-East.
::Overall, I think the impression of bias is largely due to hyperbolic terms such as "next to impossible", "raging", and farther in the section "immense" (about the role of Carter in the peace process), etc. I think rephrasing as "the Algerian war was damaging France's relations in the M-E", or replacing "immense" by "important", would give an overall impression of better NPOV.
::Any comments before I commit a few changes in that spirit? Also it would be good to check the facts and include pointers to back up what is stated.
::[[User:Zsam|Sam]] 03:57, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
:::I think we should remove most historical information and focus one the present realtion, with short information about the shift that accord with de Gaulle. Any thoughts? [[User:Carl Logan|Carl Logan]] 20:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it is overly long and I think many Haitians would be offended by the statement that France tried to reinstall democracy in Haiti. The Haitians I know claim that French and US forces hijacked Aristide and hand the power to members of the former dictatorial regime. [[User:Get-back-world-respect|Get-back-world-respect]] 01:27, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

:The Haitian statement says "It supports the ongoing efforts to restore democracy to Haiti and seeks to expand its trade relations with all of Latin America." This appears to be the official stance of France. In what way could we alter this statement to remove the bias? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 05:37, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

: To David Monniaux: No you're not the only one to think this section is unusualy long. Perhaps it should have its own article. [[User:MatthieuN|Matthieu]] 00:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

: Is it me, or is there not a single citation in this entire section? [[User:Googooww|Googooww]] ([[User talk:Googooww|talk]]) 03:25, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

== Speculation, unsubstantiated and vague statements? ==

''De Gaulle launched the immense shift in policy from one favouring Israel to one favouring the Arab states for a combination of reasons.  It was becoming obvious that the strengthening alliance between the United States and Israel would soon make France's role as an ally mostly irrelevant. The US could always provide Israel with more money and with higher levels of military technology. For France to play an important role in the region it seemed supporting the Arab side would give it more leverage in the future. Trade considerations also came into play.''

Isn't that speculation as to De Gaulle's motives and intentions? Is there documentation for this?

''Nasser and de Gaulle, who shared many similarities,'' &ndash; as in? Same politics (Nasser was a Socialist, de Gaulle was certainly not one)?

''The United States, the United Kingdom and West Germany all sold far more to the Middle East each year than France,  and none of these states pursued as strong a pro-Arab policy as did the French.  Quite the opposite was true of the United States and Britain which firmly backed Israel and were opposed to many of the governments in the region, especially Nasser's Egypt.  The Arab states would almost always prefer the cheaper goods from an anti-Arab nation than more expensive ones from a pro-Arab state such as France.  France was not as successful economically as Britain, Germany, or the United States and no amount of positive relations with the Arab world could overcome the greater costs of French goods.'' Any evidence that French goods were substantially more expensive than British goods?

The last part of the article sounds like an editorial piece written from the point of view that the French government is stupid to have pursued a policy that did not gain it anything, except terrorism and US and Israeli hostility. This may be true; yet, Wikipedia is not the place to write essays as to what kind of foreign policy such and such country should have followed 30 years ago. We should give the facts, with correct perspective. [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 13:29, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Sure that's nice but really who cares?

:The New Zealand Section could do with a trim; 'vague' is all I have to say about it. Algeria is not that concise either. [[Special:Contributions/82.198.132.48|82.198.132.48]] ([[User talk:82.198.132.48|talk]]) 16:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Corruption]] ==

Please refrain from POV such as "France was found guilty of corruption". A country cannot be corrupt, people can. The scandal referred to included many politicians and firms from many countries, also from North America. [[User:Añoranza|Añoranza]] 15:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
:Not sure where you are reffering to, the portion you removed does not say France was guilty of corruption. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 11pt">[[User:Zer0faults|<span style="color:Red;">'''zero faults'''</span>]]</span> [[User_talk:Zer0faults#Signature|''<span style="color:Blue;"><sup><b>|sockpuppets|</b></sup></span>'']] 17:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::It was written "France was involved..." That is nonsense, there were individuals and firms from many many countried involved in that scandal. Not countries. [[User:Añoranza|Añoranza]] 03:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I know it's going to double the size of Wikistan, but where do we list all the corruption in French arms sales like this: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2011/06/mil-110610-cna02.htm [[User:Hcobb|Hcobb]] ([[User talk:Hcobb|talk]]) 01:50, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

==Drugs==
Removed section about drugs. Can't believe it was there for years.
{{Not verified|date=July 2007}}
:==Other issues==  	 
:===Illicit drugs=== 	 
:France is a transshipment point for and consumer of South American [[cocaine]] and Southwest Asian [[heroin]].

--[[User:Akral|Akral]] 09:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

==Relations with Italy==

It's stated what kind of relations France has with Germany, UK and even Spain is mentioned altought on a very common base, but with Italy. I think at least the article could have the same for Italy it has for Spain, but since this is poor too and Italy is a more important country, more important partner and economy to France, I think the article could talk more of Italy's case.

[[User:ACamposPinho|ACamposPinho]] 2:10, 26 November 2007

==Columbia?==
The Franco-Columbian Relations section direly needs to be updated in light of Ingrid Betancourt's rescue this summer. I'm not an expert on the issue, so if someone enlightened on the issue could update this section, that'd be great.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Icetitan17|Icetitan17]] ([[User talk:Icetitan17|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Icetitan17|contribs]]) 04:12, 26 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== IF YOU ARE OK WE ARE OK ,CANYOU INTERFAIR INERNATIONAL FORCE TO GAZA &WEST BANK? ==

IF YOU AE OK WE ARE OK CAN YOU LET THE SHP PASS AFTER DAYS

EMAD KALT  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.137.200.5|82.137.200.5]] ([[User talk:82.137.200.5|talk]]) 19:53, 1 January 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Cambodia?==
It says, "In Southeast Asia, France was an architect of the [[Paris Peace Accords]], which ended the conflict in [[Cambodia]]." Should that be [[Vietnam]]? [[User:StAnselm|<b>St</b>]][[Special:Contributions/StAnselm|Anselm]] ([[User talk:StAnselm|talk]]) 03:16, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

== Links ==

[http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/12/africans-closer-forming-intervention-force-2013127153433455868.html >> Africans closer to forming intervention force][http://blogs.aljazeera.com/blog/africa/france-africas-policeman >> France - Africa's policeman?][http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/12/france-out-africa-back-20131214112634946877.html >> France: Out of Africa and back? ]([[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 18:11, 7 December 2013 (UTC)).

== Spinoff historical sections ==

The article is gotten too long, and I propose to spinoff the Historical sections to a new article. [[History of French foreign relations]]. Take a look at how it currently stands.  It would include the current sections on 1-4 on 1 Second Empire: 1851-1871 2 Third Republic: 1871-1940 3 Vichy regime: 1940-44 and 4 Fourth Republic. Any comments? [[User:Rjensen|Rjensen]] ([[User talk:Rjensen|talk]]) 13:12, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
::I also moved the pre-1850 sections to [[History of French foreign relations]] where they fit better.  [[User:Rjensen|Rjensen]] ([[User talk:Rjensen|talk]]) 09:37, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== Algerian Genocide ==

Hello, more than 2 million Algerians were killed by the French so this should constitute an [[Algerian Genocide]]. [[User:Ribbontool|Ribbontool]] ([[User talk:Ribbontool|talk]]) 17:26, 4 July 2016 (UTC)-

== External links modified ==

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== Obiectivity nowhere to be found ==

Who the hell is writing these articles? No other "Foreign relations of...." displays such ridiculous biais ([[User:Jules Agathias|Jules Agathias]] ([[User talk:Jules Agathias|talk]]) 16:48, 3 April 2020 (UTC))
== "[[:France–Jordan relations]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=France%E2%80%93Jordan_relations&redirect=no France–Jordan relations]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 22#France–Jordan relations}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ––– [[User:GMH Melbourne|GMH Melbourne]] 05:21, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

== Speculative Sophie Meunier excerpt: Moved; Needs supplements or deletion. ==

In the section: /* Emmanuel Macron, 2017–present */ I extracted the highly speculative [[Sophie Meunier]] and obsolete excerpt (which is so lengthy that it may violate copyright), and moved it to a new subsequent section ("Future").  

I did so because her piece provides virtually no documentable information about the foreign policy of Macron, ''specifically'' -- so does NOT belong in this section.

It's an out-of-date, one-source, highly speculative & subjective analysis, so is not adequate for any purpose on its own. So the whole "Future" section should be enhanced with other views, to provide the balance consistent with [[WP:NPOV]], or simply deleted (thereby dumping [[Sophie Meunier]]'s piece in the process).

~ [[User:Penlite|Penlite]] ([[User talk:Penlite|talk]]) 11:57, 26 June 2024 (UTC)