View source for Talk:Fag hag

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{{WikiProject LGBT studies}}
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{{Old AfD multi
| date      = June 11 2005
| result    = '''Keep'''
| page      = Fag hag
| date2     = January 6 2007
| result2   = '''Keep'''
| page2     = Fag hag (2nd nomination)
}}
{{Transwiki to Wiktionary Finished}}

==Margaret Cho==

[[Margaret Cho]] has often claimed to be the ultimate fag hag and there is little reason to doubt her. <small>&mdash;''The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by'' [[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] ([[User talk:Ed Poor|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Ed Poor|contribs]]) 11:15, 21 Aug 2002 (UTC).</small><!--Inserted with Template:Unsigned-->

:I love Margaret Cho, but is the quotation really appropriate for an encyclopedia article?
--[[User:Azkar|Azkar]] 02:36, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

maybe add her under a "see also section" or even list self proclaimed "F*g hags" :) [[User:Pwojdacz|Pwojdacz]] ([[User talk:Pwojdacz|talk]])  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 06:41, 2 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Can anyone name any notable women other than Cho, who self-define as fag hags? [[User:Nietzsche 2|Nietzsche 2]] ([[User talk:Nietzsche 2|talk]]) 08:00, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
::Kathy Griffin--[[User:Dougcweho|DCX]] ([[User talk:Dougcweho|talk]]) 23:39, 15 April 2010 (UTC)


I've never heard of a lesbian being called a fag hag by gay men. Cho seems to appropriate the term for herself for her own reasons, but I doubt she actually fits. A 'gay' woman hanging out with gay men is not what the term meant in the past. The whole point is that it's straight women socializing with gay men. 
[[User:MarkinBoston|MarkinBoston]] ([[User talk:MarkinBoston|talk]]) 01:17, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

==Dyke tyke==

Well, I'm disappointed - I thought I invented the term "dyke tyke"!
--[[User:chrisjwmartin|chrisjwmartin]] 21:55, 10th May 2005 (UTC)

I've created a new [[dyke tyke]] page, so I changed the "dyke tyke" link to point at that rather than [[gay slang]]. I believe that the phenomenon of dyke tykes is different enough from that of fag hags that it warrants its own article.

[[User:Zorblek|Zorblek]] [[User talk:Zorblek|(talk)]] 00:18, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

== Stub? ==

Could you really count this article as still being a stub? [[User:Celestianpower|Celestianpower]] 13:48, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
:Nah. I've removed the stub tag. [[User:TacoDeposit|Taco Deposit]] | [[User_talk:TacoDeposit|Talk-o to Taco]] 04:28, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

== Fag stags ==

I admit I've never heard the term "fag stag" but I don't think they're all that rare. I've known several straight men who for whatever reason prefer the company of gay men. --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|<sub>{{IPA|t&#596;k t&#601; mi}}</sub>]] 23:56, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== I hope it was OK to edit ==

I have never edited a wikipedia article so I hope it is OK for me to edit based on my own experiences.  My ex-wife was a, self described, fag hag and I guess I am a fag stag, though I have never heard that expression.  To the me the hallmark of the relationship is a deep and loving friendship.  The kind that is, to my experience, impossible to achieve where there is sexual tension or the possibility of tension.

I'm surprised on how little I have found on the internet regarding the subject.  I found an article at http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/Aternyde2/faghags.html but it seems odd to me.  He talks about "converters" and "mommys".  I don't get that.  To me "converters" are just people having difficulty getting their emotions straight and the "mommy" thing is part of a lot of relationships.  In my experience it is more about friendship.  But that's just me. <small>&mdash;''The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by'' [[User:64.121.4.10|64.121.4.10]] ([[User talk:64.121.4.10|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/64.121.4.10|contribs]]) 23:29, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC).</small><!--Inserted with Template:Unsigned-->

==Non-fair-use photo==

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that the use of this photo in this article is not legal [[Wikipedia:fair use|fair use]].  Stuff like this can get Wikipedia in a lot of trouble, potentially making it difficult to use ''any'' fair use photos, even legally.  Unless somebody can successfully argue that this ''is'', in fact, fair use, I'm inclined to remove the image from this article. —[[User:johndburger|johndburger]] 15:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

== Contradiction ==

"Fag hag is a slang term, which is either abusive or affectionate"
"The term is used, without the intent to insult"
so is it usually used as a form of insult/abuse? --[[User:Yiyun|Yiyun]] 06:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

:can be used either derogatroy or as affectionate. [[User talk:Benjiboi|Benjiboi]] 23:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

==Original research==

Why is this page tagged as original research? It is not apparent from neither the talk page nor the article history why it is tagged. Please explain why so any issues can be resolved or the tag will be removed. [[User:MartinDK|MartinDK]] 13:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

:Well, it's certainly full of '''unverified claims'''—there's not a single source cited.  —[[User:johndburger|johndburger]] 05:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

::Unverified claims are a problem, but they do not constitute [[WP:OR|original research]].  I'm considering removing the tag, pending any discussion here.  I'm proposing changing the tag to <nowiki>{{citations missing}}</nowiki>.  --[[User:Ssbohio|Ssbohio]] 05:59, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

:::Done.  The citations are coming along, but I thought the <nowiki>{{citations missing}}</nowiki> tag would still be more useful than the [[WP:OR|original research]] one. --[[User:Ssbohio|Ssbohio]] 02:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

::::What would be nice would be if the <nowiki>{{OR}}</nowiki> template was changed so that the person adding it would have to provide a more specific reason. All too often these articles are just tagged without reason because the tagger believes that his divine insight is self-evident. The result is an article that is not improved and a train wreck of tags. [[User:MartinDK|MartinDK]] 09:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

:::::If you ever see one that is ther without corresponding talk page discussion then remove it and insist that specific concerns be cited if they aren't going to fix them personally. I think the {{tl|OR}} tag is abused but I also am quite to put clean-up tags for various other issues as I think they can be of help when addressing specific concerns and communicating what those are when needed. [[User:Benjiboi|<u style="text-decoration:none;font:95% cursive;color:#CC00CC">Benji</u>]][[User_talk:Benjiboi|<u style="text-decoration:none;font:98% cursive;color:#ff6699">boi</u>]] 14:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

''In interviews with gay men and self-described fag hags, the most common theme is safety.[citation needed] A rich relationship can develop between a straight woman and a gay man without sexual tension. The fag hag relationship allows the participants to separate intimacy and sexuality. The term fag hag can also mean a gay icon.[citation needed]''

:Is lack of sexual tension really the main or sole reason for the fact that there are many thousands of friendships between heterosexual women and homosexual men? Surely most straight women have friendships with hetero women which are free of sexual tension. This article should state what specifically motivates straight fag hags to seek out homosexual men with whom to form friendships, and what such women gain from such platonic relationships. That many women have a major preference for homosexual men, sometimes to the extent that they immerse themselves in LGBT culture, needs to be explained. There must be something specific they are looking for, and (believe they will) find. [[User:Nietzsche 2|Nietzsche 2]] ([[User talk:Nietzsche 2|talk]]) 07:47, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

==Other usages==
In the UK, where "fag" is primarily a slang term for cigarette and much less a pejorative term for gay, a "fag hag" is a woman who smokes a lot. Unfortunately I can't find many references to this, but it was in use when I was a kid growing up... [[User:BenXO|BenXO]]
: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV5nitR56_o Here's an example (check the title).] [[User:BenXO|BenXO]]

The term was defined that way in an earlier edition of Partridge's Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English.

Originally, "fag" was a younger boy who did favours for an older boy, in English boarding schools. Thus, it is closely related to the American term, if only by chance. Fag for cigarette was strictly a working class term, probably being short for faggot, a small billet of raw material used in factories. Julia Gillard, PM of Oz, is the perfect example of a fag hag, as she never goes anywhere without Bobby Bummole Brown  ... the man who signed Jimmy Hendrix's death certificate.[[Special:Contributions/220.244.87.111|220.244.87.111]] ([[User talk:220.244.87.111|talk]])

== Who knew I needed an article for having friends? ==

Apparently I'm a "fag hag" and my husband is a "dyke tyke"? I thought we just have friends because they're nice people.

I'm not sure this term needs an article, except to define it for people who don't live in the U.S. and might not understand the term; otherwise, it's sort of useless! A "fag hag" is a woman who is friends with a gay man. Okay...that's enough for a stub...

As for a straight man who is friends with a gay woman, the term we use at home is "chainsaw buddy", meaning that when a hurricane hits, she's the person who is not only likely to own a chainsaw, but also responsible enough to make sure that there's gas in it and nice enough to take the time off work to come saw the tree trunk out of your living room.

It's a nice term, but does it warrant an article? I don't think so.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Helenabucket|Helenabucket]] ([[User talk:Helenabucket|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Helenabucket|contribs]]) 05:37, 26 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:'''I disagree'''. It's a popular term in culture and is referenced in many movies and media. I know many fag hags myself. The article does definitely need cleaning up, but I'm sure once it's cleaned up, it'll be notable enough for an article. Feel free to edit it and fix parts that you don't think are right. --[[User:Danlev|<span style="color:#339966;">'''Dan Leveille'''</span>]][[User talk:Danlev|<sup><span style="color:#77BB99;">'''TALK'''</span></sup>]] 05:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

::It is a common phenomena that needs to be explained; this article needs significant expansion. Why so many straight women choose to spend a large proportion of their free time with (particulary male) LGBT people is a mystery to most straight men. [[User:Nietzsche 2|Nietzsche 2]] ([[User talk:Nietzsche 2|talk]]) 07:58, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

=="Fag hags are frequently stereotyped as outgoing, sometimes overly beautiful women" ==

Really?  This is very contrary to my own experience with fag hags, who are typically quite haggish, overweight, over-loud uglies who can't find a partner among the heterosexual population based on outward appearance.  So they use their undying devotion to the gay dudes who tolerate them as a surrogate.  But I don't ahve citation for that.  But yeah, I've never seen a remotely attractive fag hag, or even one who COULD be good looking, if not for all the excess weight.  All the ones I've met have ugly atoms.       <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/216.197.188.188|216.197.188.188]] ([[User talk:216.197.188.188|talk]]) 06:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I was going to comment on exactly the same thing.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a girl with many gay guy friends, but the kind who get called "fag hags" are fat and obnoxious.  That is why we call them hags ...  Around here, an attractive woman with social skills (and straight lovers) who just happens to get along with gays is called a fruit fly.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/207.172.186.128|207.172.186.128]] ([[User talk:207.172.186.128|talk]]) 01:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Yeah, that line should really be excised.  Just because one single source says it is so, doesn't make it true, in the real world.  I'm a gay man, and I would definitely say that "Fag Hag" is a term reserved for haggish women.  No one goes around saying Sea Hags are women who hang out on the docks and are overly beautiful women.  They're hags, and are not attractive.  Also, what the hell is an "overly" beautiful woman?  It's not enough to present the (completely new) idea that fag hags aren't totally gross, but they also have to be good looking to the point of excess?  Sounds like some hags doth protest too much. --[[Special:Contributions/207.47.252.131|207.47.252.131]] ([[User talk:207.47.252.131|talk]]) 18:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC) 

I agree.  Any woman I have ever heard of referred to as a Fag Hag was unattarctive and/or had some problem with her social skills that hampered finding a heterosexual partner and led her to socialize almost exclusively with gay men.  That doesn't mean there aren't attractive women that socialize with gay men, obviously.  But I think the EXCLUSIVE part is the key here.  Fag Hags don't just have gay friends, it is that virtually ALL of their male friends are gay.  Not many attractive women (physical or otherwise) are in that category.  

Looks like [[WP:OR]].--'''[[User:HisSpaceResearch|h i s]]'''   <sup>''[[User talk:HisSpaceResearch|s p a c e]]''</sup>   <sub>'''[[Special:Contributions/HisSpaceResearch|r e s e a r c h]]'''</sub> 06:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

There's no such thing as an ''overly'' beautiful woman. [[User:Nietzsche 2|Nietzsche 2]] ([[User talk:Nietzsche 2|talk]]) 08:03, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

==Women who (want to) have sex with LGBT men==
Do women who have a preference for sexual relationships with LGBT men qualify as fag hags, or is there a separate term for them? [[User:Nietzsche 2|Nietzsche 2]] ([[User talk:Nietzsche 2|talk]]) 08:09, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

:The correct term is [[girlfag]]. [[User:Insert2|Insert2]] ([[User talk:Insert2|talk]]) 21:53, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

== Fag hags vs. bi guys ==

I'm not quite understanding how a woman who enjoys being around or is attracted to bisexual men would be considered a "fag hag."   I know bi guys are often considered to be "fags" anyway, by certain people of questionable intelligence, but if a girl is attractive any real bi guy is going to be trying to get with her, thus excluding the "no sexual tension" factor.

== Come again? ==

This seems like an awfully rude name to call someone. I thought gay people were supposed to be happy, hence the reason for them taking a term that used to mean happy?  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.158.10.219|81.158.10.219]] ([[User talk:81.158.10.219|talk]]) 15:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Other Languages ==

I've understood that in (Mexican?) Spanish, the word that I sometimes used is "jotera". But I now don't have the guts to change/add anything on (to) Wikipedia. [[User:Cmlewan|Cmlewan]] ([[User talk:Cmlewan|talk]]) 10:28, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

== "The Hag" ==

what is this image doing here? wrong article, maybe? [[User:Despatche|Despatche]] ([[User talk:Despatche|talk]]) 05:06, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

== "Related terms" ==

"In the United Kingdom, a straight man who enjoys the company of lesbians is known as a dikey likey."

This is a prime example of the utterly made up bollocks that's made it's way onto Wikipedia.  It's not even spelled correctly.  The slang word for a gay fem is 'dyke'.  I live & party in Manchester UK, I know plenty of gay men & chicks, and they've never heard of this term.  Unless it can be verified it should be deleted. [[Special:Contributions/62.255.248.225|62.255.248.225]] ([[User talk:62.255.248.225|talk]]) 13:33, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

== What, no Liz Taylor?  ==

Not for nothin,' but my gay brother told me that Elizabeth Taylor was the queen of the fag hags. I'm not adding it, as it would be original research, but someone with knowledge should add a section on the classic Hollywood fag hags. You'll excuse me if I'm not impressed by Margaret Cho, but the term comes from a time when virtually all gay men were effectively closeted, and if you can tell the world you're a fag hag, the term doesn't really have any meaning any more. 
[[User:MarkinBoston|MarkinBoston]] ([[User talk:MarkinBoston|talk]]) 01:22, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

== Controversy ==

I know a lot of people, particularly gay men, don't understand a fag hag's obsession with their sexuality and say that it's creepy. I personally am on that boat; it's pretty objectifying behavior. Should we add a section about this?  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2602:301:774A:D980:75D7:A70C:1DA8:3123|2602:301:774A:D980:75D7:A70C:1DA8:3123]] ([[User talk:2602:301:774A:D980:75D7:A70C:1DA8:3123|talk]]) 19:27, 22 December 2014 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==fruit fly synonym or hypernym==
:American fag hag synonyms include fruit fly

This utilizes a 1986 reference. While this may have initially been true, I wonder if over time the term 'fruit fly' has become more gender neutral and thus a hypernym rather than a synonym. Reason I bring this up is because at the [[fag stag]] article it is also listed as a term for heterosexual men with gay friends.

If fruit fly can refer to a "hag" (heterosexual female) or "stag" (heterosexual male) then it would seem to be a hypernym of the fag hag / fag stag gendered terms, and more broadly encapsulate heterosexuals with homosexual friends.

That said, I did not see a reference for 'fly' being used to refer to males so I requested a citation for it, that might help to sort things out. [[User:Ranze|Ranze]] ([[User talk:Ranze|talk]]) 07:35, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

:For what it's worth, I've been out since 1995 and never heard the term "fag stag" until reading this Wikipedia article today. It sounds more like a "gym bunny" or a gay "stag do"/"bachelor party" than a "fruit fly". For me, a "fruit fly" has always been the male version of a "fag hag", and the only time I've ever heard "fruit fly" used for a woman was once in 2012, when a straight, female friend of mine said she didn't like the word "hag" and commandeered the term "fruit fly" for herself. Then again, I think my gay card may have expired, so maybe I'd better brush up and take the test again to get it renewed. [[User:Metrowestjp|Metrowestjp]] ([[User talk:Metrowestjp|talk]]) 03:46, 9 October 2018 (UTC)