View source for Talk:Engrish

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== Japlish ==

Does Japlish have an established meaning?  (Some use it as "mixed usage of Japanese and English" and others use it as "Engrish".  But very few seem to use it as "Gairaigo" as described in the article.)[[User:Jirou|Jirou]] ([[User talk:Jirou|talk]]) 09:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Gairaigo has a clear meaning, but the practice is a little more ambiguous. Speaking from experience, it often happens that a Japanese person believes that a loan word is actually correct English, rather than a loanword that has been adopted into Japanese. The "cool" image of English makes presentations of it seem an example of Engrish to native English speakers, although this is not helped by anglophones resident in Japan in particular often speaking poor Japanese, and so themselves not knowing what is an attempt at English, and what is a loan word. VsevolodKrolikov 12:43, 3 May 2009 (UTC)  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:VsevolodKrolikov|VsevolodKrolikov]] ([[User talk:VsevolodKrolikov|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/VsevolodKrolikov|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I've never heard the term Engrish - suspect it is someone's racist idea of a joke. However, the word Japlish is in the Oxford English Dictionary I believe. I suggest this page is renamed accordingly.--[[User:Hontogaichiban|Hontogaichiban]] ([[User talk:Hontogaichiban|talk]]) 15:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

:[https://www.google.com/search?q=engrish Google reports] "[a]bout 2,870,000 results" and delivers 232 of them, with www.engrish.com at the head. See their [http://www.engrish.com/engrish-faq/ FAQ].

and ive never heard "Japlish" before, and its MUCH more racest than "engrish"  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/125.236.57.130|125.236.57.130]] ([[User talk:125.236.57.130|talk]]) 16:45, 22 September 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 
::I think the two entries above are both grasping for the truth, which is that this entire "Engrish" thing is a recent bogosity, a bit of phoney politesse motivated by the equally bogus notion that there's anything racist about "Japlish."  ''Japlish'' is an obvious portmanteau of Japanese and English, and it can no doubt be used to express racist ideas.  So can the wicked words "a" and "the."

::[[User:David Lloyd-Jones|David Lloyd-Jones]] ([[User talk:David Lloyd-Jones|talk]]) 08:59, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

:::I can't remember seeing "Japlish" in the wild. "Engrish" is the usual term, and a popular Internet meme (see Know Your Meme).
:::Considering that bizarre English signage in East Asia is not usually used to insult East Asians nor adduced as evidence for stupidity and inferiority, but mostly shared purely for good-natured amusement, I think it is not particularly harmful, if at all. At least I haven't seen Asian people complain about it. --[[User:Florian Blaschke|Florian Blaschke]] ([[User talk:Florian Blaschke|talk]]) 21:42, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

== Planning to add some new photos ==

I felt like some of the photos were a little generic - they were just notices in bad English. I've tried to replace them with more interesting ones showing non-functional English text applied decoratively. Hope that's OK. [[User:Blythwood|Blythwood]] ([[User talk:Blythwood|talk]]) 22:26, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

== Is that Japanese pronunciation real? ==
Because it seems perfectly accurate to the stereotype: [ĩŋɡu͍ɽiɕːu͍] [[User:Prinsgezinde|Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde)]] ([[User talk:Prinsgezinde|talk]]) 13:32, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
:{{ping|Prinsgezinde}} I don't understand the question. ''Of course'' it is accurate to the stereotype, because stereotypical Engrish is pronounced in the Japanese fashion. Japanese people (unless they are truly bilingual) usually pronounce English and other foreign languages this way, adapted to Japanese phonology and phonotactics. Not only loanwords, but also longer utterances. --[[User:Florian Blaschke|Florian Blaschke]] ([[User talk:Florian Blaschke|talk]]) 18:28, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
::Well sure, but I meant that without a source someone could have easily inserted the "Engirisu" pronunciation jokingly. [[User:Prinsgezinde|Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde)]] ([[User talk:Prinsgezinde|talk]]) 10:38, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Maybe, though the Wikipedian who inserted the pronunciation [[Special:Diff/678477073|here]] seems to have acted in good faith, as he has added pronunciations to many other articles. True, ''Engrish'' is an English, not Japanese word, but in principle it can be used in Japanese as a loanword, and the pronunciation can be predicted accurately because there are precise rules for "Japanification" of foreign languages. So at worst it's a tiny bit of OR and not really germane to the article. --[[User:Florian Blaschke|Florian Blaschke]] ([[User talk:Florian Blaschke|talk]]) 03:02, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== /* undefined */ new section ==

This term is clearly Japanese related. Why does it say Chinglish is a part of it?  That should be a related term. Japanese is not the main language in Asia.  [[User:Legacypac|Legacypac]] ([[User talk:Legacypac|talk]]) 06:10, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

==Tshirt Image==

That tshirt image isn't a good example. It still makes sense. It just has some grammatical errors instead. Highfalutin is a real English word too. [[User:Gune|Gune]] ([[User talk:Gune|talk]]) 18:53, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
:: You are interpreting arbitrariness in a literal manner seeking causality. As religious people do with any phenomenon.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2A02:587:4118:9000:4C77:F3DA:72BE:22F9|2A02:587:4118:9000:4C77:F3DA:72BE:22F9]] ([[User talk:2A02:587:4118:9000:4C77:F3DA:72BE:22F9#top|talk]]) 10:32, 5 July 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::Do you have any idea what you're talking about? [[Special:Contributions/2605:A601:5A5:F100:D4C7:DD48:2065:964|2605:A601:5A5:F100:D4C7:DD48:2065:964]] ([[User talk:2605:A601:5A5:F100:D4C7:DD48:2065:964|talk]]) 06:38, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

== sorry, many small thoughts ==

I first encountered Engrish in [[Monty Python]], where my impression was they were NOT poking fun at any Asians, but rather at the shallow stereotype manner in which [[Orientals]] were portrayed in media, particularly [[pantomime]] (roughly the UK equivalent of [[vaudeville]]/[[burlesque]]).

For what it's worth, a '90s BBC Overnight (radio) segment was presented on how "BBC English" has changed the language, particularly the suppression (perhaps erasure) of [r]. It was introduced as a piece about "the disappearance of the British 'r'" which of course ''sounded'' like "the disappeawance of the Bwitish 'ah'." They brought in a [[Speech-language pathology|speech therapist]] who tried (with limited success) to correct this. I should highlight that this is likely the diametric opposite of Engrish, being a ''fiat'' "official" English sometimes called [[received pronunciation]].

Actual Japanese usage is hardly so crude. When searching Japanese websites for older LPs by [[Bill Nelson (musician)]], I'm basically seeking the characters that make up '''Bi-ru Ne-ru-so-na''' (ビル・ネルソン). 

I cannot recall '''''ever''''' hearing any person of any Asian race substitute "l" for "r".

As a sometime singer, I find it a fantastic exercise to turn lyrics into Engrish — swapping every "r" and "l" — in realtime.<br>[[User:Weeb Dingle|Weeb Dingle]] ([[User talk:Weeb Dingle|talk]]) 16:30, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

== The article's point of view is not general ==

The article seems to only talk about Japanese pronunciation of English. But the first section said Engrish refer to '''Asian''' pronunciations of English. So can the article be more general? [[Special:Contributions/117.82.186.61|117.82.186.61]] ([[User talk:117.82.186.61|talk]]) 14:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

== losing its way ==

This article is slowly circling the proverbial drain. It even begins poorly: the header says it's
::''about mistakenly broken english''
but [[Broken English]] is about '''intentionally''' broken English. How the heck can THAT be true, when (for instance) Monty Python probably didn't use Engrish on accident?

And as I mentioned at [[Talk:Broken English]]: I see how the ostensible topic morphs from "comedic form of broken English" (i.e., intentional) to "random misspellings and grammatical errors of English that have appeared in Japan, oh and among other Asian cultures too" without any clear supporting connection. That not only directly contradicts the headnotes of both [[Engrish]] and [[Broken English]], but looks like '''synthesis'''.<br>[[User:Weeb Dingle|Weeb Dingle]] ([[User talk:Weeb Dingle|talk]]) 16:20, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

:I don't see the problem. Engrish originated as misspoken or mistranslated English, but was then parodied for comedic effect. [[User:Doctorhawkes|Doctorhawkes]] ([[User talk:Doctorhawkes|talk]]) 22:46, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
== "Ingurisshu" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Ingurisshu]]. Please participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 December 1#Ingurisshu|the redirect discussion]] if you wish to do so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> <sub>signed, </sub>[[User:Rosguill|'''''Rosguill''''']] <sup>[[User talk:Rosguill|''talk'']]</sup> 19:17, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

== Pejorative ==
Looking through the talk archives I see that this page has been called offensive several times. To me the existance of the page certainly isn't offensive, but I'm surprised to find no mention that the term may be considered pejorative, at least. I'll do some sourcing and add this unless someone else beats me to it. [[User:Retswerb|Retswerb]] ([[User talk:Retswerb|talk]]) 08:07, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

== Pronunciation is a part of English education in Japan ==

The line "the correct pronunciation of the romaji letters is not taught" is highly suspect. I recognize that my anecdotes don't amount to much, but I had the dubious distinction of being employed as an assistant language teacher in Japanese public schools and half the reason I was there was to help teach pronunciation. Reading and writing is certainly emphasized, but pronunciation isn't neglected nearly to the extend the "Other suggested roots" section implies.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:AnInfiniteArc|AnInfiniteArc]] ([[User talk:AnInfiniteArc#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/AnInfiniteArc|contribs]]) 19:01, 12 December 2020 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:[[Runglish]]er has an opinion. 
:We are taught how to pronounce "th" at school. However, "Use it or lose it" kind of awry happens soon after. [[Special:Contributions/81.89.66.133|81.89.66.133]] ([[User talk:81.89.66.133|talk]]) 09:10, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

== "Offensive" claim ==

Can we find more sources that consider this word offensive? I feel like one magazine article isn't enough to validate such a broad claim for a term that's so commonly used. [[User:Glades12|Glades12]] ([[User talk:Glades12|talk]]) 16:44, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

:This it really "widely used"? I would also like sources on that.
:I never heard of anyone outside of obscure internet forums using it. [[User:RKGMPhaild|RKGMPhaild]] ([[User talk:RKGMPhaild|talk]]) 11:30, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

::Asking for other sources for a prominent claim based on one 8-year-old opinion (and therefore biased) piece is not unreasonable. Additionally, placing "offensive" first in the lead (before "slang" and any other description) contravenes [[WP:UNDUE]], and requires the claim to be moved either within the lead, or to a section in the main article; [[Nigger|other articles]] with more evidence and justification manage this. (It could also be argued that, using {{u|RKGMPhaild}}'s comment above, the single source for the "offensive" claim is an obscure internet forum, and thus not a [[WP:RS]].) [[User:Bazza 7|Bazza]] ([[User talk:Bazza 7|talk]]) 09:05, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
::I should have added a link to [https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/why-does-engrish-happen-in-japan this Japanese-published article] on the subject which shows the term is not as obscure as {{u|RKGMPhaild}} claims; it does not consider it offensive. [[User:Bazza 7|Bazza]] ([[User talk:Bazza 7|talk]]) 09:20, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

== "Perceived" ==

{{ping|Megaman en m}} I'm sorry, what are you talking about?  The article goes on to describe it as "defective Asian English" that "may often be meaningless or grammatically incorrect", with "emphasis...not put on coherence or correctness".  By whose standards is Engrish correct? [[User:Esszet|Esszet]] ([[User talk:Esszet|talk]]) 23:10, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

: I feel that this is a much more objective, encyclopedic phrasing. I did however remove the internal link to language change, as that is not mentioned anywhere in the article and could be debated as to whether that's a valid connection to draw.--[[User:Megaman en m|Megaman en m]] ([[User talk:Megaman en m|talk]]) 03:00, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

::What?  The examples given are objectively bad English, "Lovey-Dovey Night Highfalutin" doesn't make sense in '''any''' language. [[User:Esszet|Esszet]] ([[User talk:Esszet|talk]]) 14:02, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

:::That's only if you view it as a way of communicating. It can also be viewed as mere decoration or a way to denote status, just like Europeans might use incorrect Japanese kanji in movies or as tattoos without caring about whether it's correct or not. If you go to the maker of that shirt in the lead and tell them how it's bad English, they're not going to care, the English is just decorative.--[[User:Megaman en m|Megaman en m]] ([[User talk:Megaman en m|talk]]) 17:25, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

::::Exactly, that's why it's bad, they don't care. [[User:Esszet|Esszet]] ([[User talk:Esszet|talk]]) 17:02, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
::::And of course, [https://skdesu.com/en/engrish-15-moments/ a lot of them] aren't decorative at all. [[User:Esszet|Esszet]] ([[User talk:Esszet|talk]]) 17:13, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

== Not to be confused with Jinglish ==

If ''''Engrish'''' is not to be confused with ''''Jinglish''''(as the page says), then why does the page 'Jinglish' redirects to the page 'Engrish'?
[[User:Mranmolv1|Mranmolv1]] ([[User talk:Mranmolv1|talk]]) 16:05, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
== "Japenglish" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
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An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect [[:Japenglish]] and has thus listed it [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|for discussion]]. This discussion will occur at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 10#Japenglish]] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> — [[User:Mhawk10|Ⓜ️hawk10]] ([[User talk:Mhawk10|talk]]) 04:32, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

== Engrish/Japanglish vowels ==

Example:
Standard japanese english vowels, ‘[a]’ ‘[i]’ ‘[ɯ]’ ‘[e̞]’ and ‘[o̞]’ [[User:Juidzi|Juidzi]] ([[User talk:Juidzi|talk]]) 10:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

== Examples??? ==

Someone threw away my notion on the "[[Casiopea]]" band, how it's Engrish for "[[Cassiopeia]]". Can't this article get a proper list of examples of Engrish? A single t-shirt just won't cut it. [[Special:Contributions/81.89.66.133|81.89.66.133]] ([[User talk:81.89.66.133|talk]]) 11:28, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:Actually, the question can be void - there's "See Also" section with some examples. [[Special:Contributions/81.89.66.133|81.89.66.133]] ([[User talk:81.89.66.133|talk]]) 09:11, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
:Context: What was removed...
:* [[Modern girl|"Modan gāru" vs "Modern girl"]]
:* For a more recent example: [[Sega]]'s ''Mega Drive'' is spelled in katakana as {{lang|ja|メガドライブ}}, hence it is pronounced as ''Mega Doraibu''; the console was renamed for the American market as [[Sega Genesis]].
:* The jazz fusion band [[Casiopea]] (est. 1976) has its name based on "[[Cassiopeia (constellation)|Ca''ss''iop''eia'']]": neither the ''double s'' nor the three-vowel ''-eia'' would fit the katakana format.
:* ''[[Monty Python's Flying Circus]]'' featured a parody of the drama series ''[[Elizabeth R]]'', where they portrayed the cast riding motor-scooters and speaking Engrish, thus changing the title to "Erizabeth L".<ref>[https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p031d250 Monty Python's Flying Circus, Series 3 Episode 3 of 13], Features The Money Programme, Erizabeth L, Dead Bishop, Jungle Restaurant and The Argument Skit, 2 November 1972</ref>
:* In the 1983 film ''[[A Christmas Story]]'', the Parker family goes to a Chinese restaurant for their Christmas dinner, and are serenaded by the waitstaff with Engrish Christmas carols, such as "[[Deck the Halls|Deck the harrs]] wis boughs of [[Holly|horry]], fa ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra" and "[[Jingle Bells|Jingre berrs]], jingre berrs, jingre arr the way, oh what fun it is to ride in one-horse open sreigh!"
:[[Special:Contributions/81.89.66.133|81.89.66.133]] ([[User talk:81.89.66.133|talk]]) 09:15, 12 May 2025 (UTC)