View source for Talk:Enabling Act of 1933

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==Name==

This article is called "Enabling Act" with a capital A, while an article about Enabling Acts in general is called "Enabing act" with a small case a. I don't think this is a proper way to go. We should either rename the other article "Enabling Act (General)" or this one "Enabling Act (Germany)" or both. Any thoughts? [[User:Str1977|Str1977]] [[User talk:Str1977|<sup>(smile back)</sup>]] 14:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
:FWIW, I think it's fine the way it is now. Both pages have clearly visible links to the other at the top. [[User:Muad|Muad]] 21:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
::I don't think so. They are merely distinguish by the capitalisation of a single letter. That is not enough. [[User:Str1977|Str1977]] [[User talk:Str1977|<sup>(smile back)</sup>]] 23:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
:::I agree with you, Str. Move this to a more suitable name. &mdash;[[User:Nightstallion|<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Nightst</span>]][[User:Nightstallion/esperanza|<span style="font-variant:small-caps; color:green;">a</span>]][[User:Nightstallion|<span style="font-variant:small-caps">llion</span>]] [[User talk:Nightstallion|''(?)'']] 17:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

== Jewish boycott ==

What is the reality of the [[Jewish boycott against Nazi Germany]] that the Daily Express reported about?
Is it the same as the [[Non-Sectarian Anti-Nazi League]] one?
What actual effect did it achieve? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/84.20.17.84|84.20.17.84]] ([[User talk:84.20.17.84|talk]]) 11:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

== US Homeland Security ==

Love how the only foreign 'See Also' is a link to US Homeland Security.  I am sure someone will rationalize a reason for this to be here other than just as propaganda tool to associate the Nazi Enabling Act with US Homeland Security.  Hate to tell you, but that's not very subtle and not fooling anybody as to NPOV.  The bias is not even clever on this one. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.144.28.250|24.144.28.250]] ([[User talk:24.144.28.250|talk]]) 01:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP -->

:Whoa now, calm down: it was added by an anonymous editor a couple days before you happened upon it.  It's vandalism and it happens.  Thank you for catching it and correcting it. --<b><span style="color:#00A86B;">[[User:Thisisbossi|Bossi]]</span></b> (<small>[[User talk:Thisisbossi|talk]] • [[:commons:User:Thisisbossi/Gallery|gallery]] • [[Special:Contributions/Thisisbossi|contrib]]</small>) 05:04, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I removed a sentence in the introductory section which read (more or less) "Some have compared it to the Patriot Act."  I have no problem with political debate, but I did this for three reasons:  1. It was obviously POV; 2. It was unsourced; 3. It has nothing to do with the article about the Enabling Act.  But in addition to those things, the idea that these two things are similar is pretty obviously false:  the Enabling Act -- by its own terms -- gave the German Cabinet power to pass legislation on its own, and sent the Reichstag home.  There is nothing vaguely similar to this in Patriot Act, Congress is still very much in business, and last I checked, it overrode a Bush veto just this week.  Democrat or Republican is not the issue here.  This is a history article.  This kind of obvious propaganda is just inappropriate (if someone wants to do a properly-balanced, sourced discussion of this in the Patriot Act article, that might be another matter). --[[User:BenRussell|BenRussell]] ([[User talk:BenRussell|talk]]) 02:14, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:but there are so many paralels  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/84.164.237.244|84.164.237.244]] ([[User talk:84.164.237.244|talk]]) 18:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Judicial review? ==

This passage (of mine) got me thinking. [[Weimar_Republic#Aftermath]]

<blockquote>The constitution was never formally repealed, but the Enabling Act meant that all its other provisions were a dead letter. The Enabling Act itself was breached by Hitler on three occasions in 1934: Article 2 of the act stated that<blockquote>'Laws enacted by the government of the Reich may deviate from the constitution as long as they do not affect the institutions of the Reichstag and the Reichsrat. The rights of the President remain undisturbed.'</blockquote>The powers of the Länder (states) were transferred to the Reich, obsolescing the Reichsrat. A month later, the Reichsrat itself was dissolved. In August, President von Hindenburg died, and Hitler appropriated the president's powers for himself. The Enabling Act did not specify any recourse that could be taken if the chancellor violated Article 2, and '''no judicial challenge ensued'''.</blockquote>

1) Under the Weimar constitution, was it possible to challenge government actions in the courts, ''a la'' United States, on the grounds that they were unconstitutional? 

2) If so, did it ever happen? 

3) I'm assuming no-one was foolhardy enough to bring such a suit against Hitler's third reich, but could it have legally happened?

4) If you ''couldn't'' bring a constitutional suit, did they just trust that the gov would uphold the constitution? Or was there some other safeguard?

5) Hitler was not someone who respected legal proceedure for its own sake. But in the Enabling Act it says that "Laws enacted by the Reich government shall be issued by the Chancellor and announced in the Reich Gazette. They shall take effect on the day following the announcement, unless they prescribe a different date".

Did Hitler actually bother to announce his laws in the Gazette once everyone was out of the way? And if he wanted to do something, he probably wouldn't bother to pass a law authorising it first (Night of the Long Knives, for instance). Does this mean that he was constantly breaking the law while he was in office, notwithstanding that it was extremely generous to him in the definition of his power? [[User:BillMasen|BillMasen]] ([[User talk:BillMasen|talk]]) 01:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

: 1. Yes, there was a somewhat weak constitutional court: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staatsgerichtshof_für_das_Deutsche_Reich
: 2. Yes, one example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preußenschlag
: 3. The Länder could have sued the Reich, the Reichstag could have sued the chancellor (Hitler) or the president (Hindenburg). But in reality, the constitutional court was dissolved immediately.
: 4. The basic idea was a balance of power between government, parliament, president and direct democracy. The conservative [[Carl Schmitt]] thought of the president as guardian of the constitution, the liberal [[Hans Kelsen]] preferred a stronger constitutional court.
: 5. Hitler was the law. Many orders by him ("Führerbefehle") weren't properly announced and often conflicted which each other, which made the legal situation rather confusing. In some way, this chaos was deliberate and part of the way the third reich worked. No clear rules = no security = even more terror. You should read "The Dual State" by [[Ernst Fraenkel]]
: [[Special:Contributions/85.178.40.129|85.178.40.129]] ([[User talk:85.178.40.129|talk]]) 18:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== English expression for Ermächtigungsgesetz ==

Is "Enabling act" really the correct translation? I'd rather rally for "Empowerment act".

[[Special:Contributions/87.160.123.165|87.160.123.165]] ([[User talk:87.160.123.165|talk]]) 21:34, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

:I think you may have a point, but the most common translation is "Enabling Act" and it's been called that for many years. Changing it would create confusion.  Speaking of translation, I think the entire translation of Hitler's speech ("By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing...") is stilted and not very speechy-sounding, and I suggest that the German text be added to the article or a better translation be used. [[Special:Contributions/24.27.31.170|24.27.31.170]] ([[User talk:24.27.31.170|talk]]) 19:15, 21 February 2012 (UTC) Eric

:I agree the translation is faulty. "Ermaechtigung" is Empowerment, whereas "Enabling" would be "Ermoeglichung" or "Befaehigung". Should be changed in Wikipedia, with the note that "Enabling Act" is also in use.

== Clearer understanding of the Act==
A clearer understanding edit. The current Article language misstates that Hitler became the "dictator" of Germany via this constitutional amendment. It is true and correct this was a one step of many to become the "legal" dictator" of Germany by August 1934; however, President Hindenberg, remained the Commander and Chief of the Weimar military post the passing of the Enabling Act until his death on August 2, 1934. And, from March - July of 1933, 56% of the seats of the Reichstag were held by opposition parties. Furthermore, the language of the Act itself makes clear there is a path of appeal and revision of any decree by the Chancellor. Indeed, the Nazi Party abused this Act on a number of levels. Once again, however, Hitler was still facing formidable, and potentially consequential, opposition from a number of sources until the Summer of 1934. --[[User:Integrtiyandhonesty|Integrtiyandhonesty]] ([[User talk:Integrtiyandhonesty|talk]]) 17:38, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
:Hitler did become dictator, though indeed only at Hindenburg's whim; the President could have dismissed the Chancellor at any time, rendering the Enabling Act unapplicable due to its Article 5. The opposition was far from having a Reichstag majority - Hitler's NSDAP/DNVP governing coalition already gained a majority in the March 1933 elections; and due to the banning of the KPD representatives, the NSDAP alone held a Reichstag majority. And no "path of appeal and revision" of laws (no longer decrees!) passed by Hitler's government is mentioned in the Act. In theory, the Reichstag could have replaced his laws by laws of its own, but the Nazi majority would have prevented that. The only potential legal opposition left to Hitler was from Hindenburg; but he seems to have supported Hitler fully. --[[User:Roentgenium111|Roentgenium111]] ([[User talk:Roentgenium111|talk]]) 17:22, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

== also in Länder ==

In most of the Länder (and in all the big ones), a similar act was adopted by the state parliaments (those parliaments were reconstituted according to the federal electoral results - First [[Gleichschaltung]] Law of 31 March 1933) (dates acoording to [http://www.gonschior.de/weimar/]):

:Bayern: 39.04
:Thüringen: 16.05
:Hessen: 16.05 (Hans Eichel, 50 Jahre Verfassung des Landes Hessen: Eine Festschrift, 2013, 46 https://books.google.be/books?id=eiiqBgAAQBAJ)
:Preußen: 18.05
:Sachsen: 23.05
:Mecklenburg-Schwerin: 01.06
:Württemberg: 08.06
:Baden: 09.06
:Lippe: 21.06
:Mecklenburg-Strelitz: 30.06
:Schaumburg-Lippe: 14.07
:Lübeck: 28.07

I have not found any reference to such an act for Hamburg, Oldenburg (only session on 23.05), Braunschweig, Anhalt or Bremen.[[User:Bancki|Bancki]] ([[User talk:Bancki|talk]]) 08:32, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

== Margin by which the Act passed ==

I have been looking into this and, there seem to be some differences between articles on the number of votes against the act. I thought the no. to be 94, this is the number stated in the article on [[Reichstag (Nazi Germany)]]. However, this article ([[Enabling Act of 1933]]) gives the number as 84. I have seen different sources giving both numbers. Is there a reason for this? Which one is correct?
[[User:Willpep|Willpep]] ([[User talk:Willpep|talk]]) 10:50, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
:It was 444-94 says the original 'Protokoll' [http://www.reichstagsprotokolle.de/Blatt2_w8_bsb00000141_00049.html]----[[User:Bancki|Bancki]] ([[User talk:Bancki|talk]]) 13:42, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
::That pretty much settles it. [[User:Dbrodbeck|Dbrodbeck]] ([[User talk:Dbrodbeck|talk]]) 14:18, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

== Arguments FOR the enabling act ==

I was hoping to see a paragraph on Nazi argument for the Enabling Act. Everybody now finds it easy to see what is evil in the Act, but one of the chief uses of studing it, maybe the chief, is to see parallels with the present day. Governments often ask for emergency powers, especially in 2020, and people are very receptive to that who think they would never have supported Hitler in 1933 if they'd been alive then. But I suspect the Nazis made very reasonable-sounding arguments about temporary emergencies and the need to avoid red tape and delay, and the article would benefit from presenting their case in their own persuasive language, along with the criticisms of the opposition. Probably this would take someone who knows German. Whoever does it should take great with Neutral Point of View.  Note that I am not suggesting that the article say anything about the present-day, just that history articles like this should be written to be relatable to future situations generally, and the arguments given for policies are useful for that. 
[[User:Editeur24|editeur24]] ([[User talk:Editeur24|talk]]) 13:25, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

== Portrayal in films ==

:The 2003 film Hitler: The Rise of Evil contains a scene portraying the passage of the Enabling Act. The portrayal in this film is inaccurate, with the provisions of the Reichstag Fire Decree (which in practice, as the name states, was a decree issued by President Hindenburg weeks before the Enabling Act) merged into the Act. Non-Nazi members of the Reichstag, including Vice-Chancellor von Papen, are shown objecting. In reality the Act met little resistance, with only the centre-left Social Democratic Party voting against passage. The film also shows Hermann Göring, speaker of the house, beginning to sing the "Deutschlandlied". Nazi representatives then stand and immediately join in with Göring, as well as all other party members, with everyone performing the Hitler salute. '''In reality, this never happened.'''

This section on the wiki page should be cited in reference to the areas in bold that I've made note of above. Right?
([[User talk:Butch3r|talk]]) 21:40, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:*I have removed the entirety of that section except for noting the existence of the film and the inaccuracy of the portrayal.  Please note that such [[docudrama]]s are intrinsically '''''dramatic''''' works. Even when the creators' intent is to present history as accurately as possible, decisions are often made for their dramatic value which do not accurately portray the actual events.  The best thing to do, if you're interested in factual history, is to read a book about the subject by a reputable historian, and not rely on dramatic semi-fictional quasi-historical films and television programs.  If you do watch them, don't take them to be the Gospel truth -- but pay attention instead to the '''''emotional''''' values which they present, for it is this that filmmakers are good at.  More often then not, the '''''feeling''''' of what is being shown will be, if not accurate, at least appropriate to the subject. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 19:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

== Self-coup ==

Scholary analysis leans toward the idea that the Enabling Act amounted to a self-coup or autogolpe, where government consolidates or keeps in power by unconstitutional means. Sources include ''[https://doi.org/10.1080/13510347.2019.1582029 Democratization]'' and the ''[https://doi.org/10.1353/jod.2022.0052 Journal of Democracy]''. There is also the [https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1242&context=faculty_articles University of Pennsylvania Law School] (pp. 373–374) and [http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/handle/2262/81746/EBRAHIM%20AFSAH.pdf Trinity College Dublin] (pp. 80–81), along with ''[https://www.huffingtonpost.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=40954 The Huffington Post Korea]''. There seems to be a consensus on that matter. It could be written in the article that scholars have described the Act as a self-coup, or (as I would prefer) the words "make and enforce laws without the involvement" in the first sentence or "bypass the system of checks and balances in the government" in the second wikilinked to the [[self-coup]] article. In either case, a source may be included to verify the ''self-coup'' descriptor, and [[:Category:1930s coups d'état and coup attempts]] could be appended. It seems like common practice to subsume self-coups and attempts under the category of coups d'état. What do you think? Is there a consensus to go through with the proposal? '''[[User:FreeMediaKid!|<span style="color:darkred">Free</span>]][[User talk:FreeMediaKid!|<span style="font-family:Times;color:DarkGreen">Media</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FreeMediaKid!|<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;color:DarkBlue">Kid$</span>]]''' 01:45, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

==Draft:23 March 1933 Reichstag speech==
A now blocked user translated the German Wikipedia [[w:de:Hitlers Rede vor dem Deutschen Reichstag am 23. März 1933]] as [[Draft:23 March 1933 Reichstag speech]]. The article was not promoted because of concerns about the absence of referencing. Possibly someone here might wish to improve and promote what seems to be a good, if largely reference-free article? --[[User:Tagishsimon|Tagishsimon]] ([[User talk:Tagishsimon|talk]]) 02:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

== Condensing the introduction ==

Am going to proceed to move excess content from the intro into the main body. [[User:Rollo|Rollo]] ([[User talk:Rollo|talk]]) 13:06, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

:Done. Newly redundant content now needs to be removed from the body. [[User:Rollo|Rollo]] ([[User talk:Rollo|talk]]) 13:45, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

== Section reorganisation and pruning ==

Reorganised body of article into new subsections for better clarity. Removed a small quantity of semi-relevant uncited detail. Removed ''additional citations needed'' banner and inserted some inline citation requests where obviously necessary. Feedback on remaining weaknesses would be useful. But otherwise this is now a clearer article on an important and highly relevant subject. [[User:Rollo|Rollo]] ([[User talk:Rollo|talk]]) 21:44, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== Signatories ==

What is your source for this, @[[User:Canavalia|Canavalia]]? Needs citation. As I understand it, laws are generally only signed by heads of state or government. [[User:Rollo|Rollo]] ([[User talk:Rollo|talk]]) 11:38, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

:Their signed names are on the image of the act on the page. But I'll add a reference as well. [[User:Canavalia|Canavalia]] ([[User talk:Canavalia|talk]]) 12:10, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

== Otto Wels speech quotation needed  ==

This was the dramatic note of discord on the day of the vote. Effectively the final plea to save the Weimar Republic and democracy, so historically quite significant. It's a short speech, obviously, given the circumstances. Personally I think it deserves its own article but it definitely needs better coverage here. Will add a section if nobody objects. [[User:Rollo|Rollo]] ([[User talk:Rollo|talk]]) 22:16, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

:Otto Wels's speech has pretty good coverage on [[Otto Wels]].  But there should definitely be more than the mere stub at [[Enabling Act of 1933]]. [[User:Canavalia|Canavalia]] ([[User talk:Canavalia|talk]]) 23:41, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
:Done. [[User:Rollo|Rollo]] ([[User talk:Rollo|talk]]) 12:47, 31 March 2025 (UTC)