View source for Talk:Disk partitioning

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==Merger==
Hi, I returned the materials moved to [[Hard disk drive partitioning history]], because they don't make up for a whole article. Let me explain: each article in Wikipedia has to reach a balance of size versus integration of details. Now the history of hard drive partitioning ''is'' quite integral to the concept of drive partitioning, and it doesn't excessively increase the size. So in this case it's best to leave it in one chunk. Remember, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia with proper articles, not Everything2 with nodes :-) --[[user:Uriyan|Uriyan]]

In fact, the history of partitioning is just about the ''only'' thing on the topic. The whole concept of partitioning is completely obsolete. Partitioning (and formatting) make no sense in the case of a Logging FS where you can grow and shrink the log dynamically. -- Ark

: POV, surely -- partitioning is still critically relevant to the vast majority of filesystems. Wikipedia doesn't enjoy the luxury of closing its eyes and pretending that it doesn't exist. --[[User:Jkew|Jkew]] 19:46, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

''To do: Drive partitioning on non- IBM PC architectures '' was moved from the article to here.
--[[User:Cprompt|cprompt]] 02:23, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I merged the following articles [[Active partition]], [[Partition (Computing)]], [[Partition (IBM PC)]] - [[user:jrideout|Jacob]] 16 Jun 2005

[[Disk partition]] and [[partition table]] not the same thing. [[User:奧田95|奧田95]] ([[User talk:奧田95|talk]]) 11:47, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

==Extended partitions?==
[[Extended partition]] is linked here, but the article doesn't define - or even mention! - extended partitions, let alone explain how they function. Is this missing for a reason, or does it just await writing? --[[User:Dyfrgi|Dyfrgi]] 22:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
:I added a blurb about this when I rewrote the article a bit. [[User:Fiskars007|Fiskars007]] 21:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
* You can, however, find more details about extended partitions in the article [[extended_boot_record]] (EBR). [[User:TheStarman|Daniel B. Sedory]] 05:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

:::What about [[file system]]s that don't use boot records?   Is the concept of an extended boot record something that concerns PC users, and nobody else?   [[User:Dexter Nextnumber|Dexter Nextnumber]] ([[User talk:Dexter Nextnumber|talk]]) 06:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

::::Yes, the EBR is specific to the PC BIOS partitioning scheme - as is the MBR. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 17:44, 4 January 2010 (UTC).

==1024 sector limitation==

The article says:

"''Technical limitations of a filesystem or operating system (e.g. old versions of the Microsoft FAT filesystem or old Linux kernels that can't boot on a partition with more than 1024 sectors)''"

Is this a reference to the old limitation in [[LILO (boot loader)|LILO]] that meant it could not boot from a partition that began after the 1024th cylinder on a drive? If so, the statement above needs to be corrected. &mdash; [[User:Yama|Yama]] 10:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
* Linux kernels don't care about details as ranges or sizes. 1024th cylinder limits came because the implementations of LiLO or Grub used BIOS info to boot partitions. --[[Special:Contributions/213.60.194.35|213.60.194.35]] ([[User talk:213.60.194.35|talk]]) 10:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

== XOSL link ==

I have removed the dead link to xosl.org (which now belongs to a link farm):

* [http://www.xosl.org/ operating system loader] <!-- broken 20050220 -->

Although Ranish has a [http://www.ranish.com/part/xosl.htm mirror] of it, I'm not really sure how relevant an operating system loader is to an article on partitioning -- all the other links are to either further information on partitioning or to partitioning utilities, not to loaders. --[[User:Jkew|Jkew]] 19:30, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

== Extended/logical partitions ==

24 logical partitions in an extended partition? Since when? Assume this is a typo for 4. Should also note that extended partitions can be nested. --[[User:Jkew|Jkew]] 19:40, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I think this refers to the limit existing since DOS 3.3 (1987) to have a maximum of 23 logical partitions inside an extended partition (using a chained setup where each partition is preceded by an "[[extended boot record|EBR]]" with only two entries, one being the logical, and the other being another extended which points to the next slice.)<BR>
The limit of 23 was computed as being 26 (letters) -2 (A: and B: were for floppies) -1 (for C: which had to be primary). --[[User:AntoineL|AntoineL]] 15:16Z, December 5th, 2005

* As AntoineL pointed out, there can be 26 drive letters under DOS/Windows on a PC, so the only ''typo error'' was in showing ''24'' instead of 23, but another OS may be able to create an unlimited number of extended partitions! Linux, e.g., doesn't use ''drive letters'' as an IBM/Microsoft OS does.

* Your comment, "''Should also note that extended partitions can be nested.''" is incorrect, at least according to every OS and utility that I've tested. None of them ever created a ''nested'' extended partition! See the discussion page for [[extended boot record]]. If you know of a utility/OS that truly creates ''nested'' partitions, please list all the details there. [[User:TheStarman|Daniel B. Sedory]] 18:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

== Hardlink attacks ==

Would be useful to provide a link to this for those (like me) who had their interest piqued -- can't find anything suitable within Wikipedia. --[[User:Jkew|Jkew]] 19:49, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

:Google. ;^ ] [[User:68.64.175.222|68.64.175.222]] 22:45, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

== Other partitioning implementations ==

=== Concurrent schemes used ===

There are a number of them; [[GNU Parted]] or [[fdisk#Linux_fdisk|Linux fdisk]] support a few like the Unix-inherited (BSD, Sun, etc.) disklabels or the Apple Macintosh scheme; there is also the SCO Xenix <TT>divvy</TT> scheme which may be historically relevant.--[[User:AntoineL|AntoineL]] 15:51Z, December 5th, 2005

=== Intel GUID Partition Table ===

A [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Partition_%28computing%29&diff=29738488&oldid=29610956 recent edit (Nov 30th)] added
<BLOCKQUOTE><I>Its however unlikely this project will ever replace IBM PC partitions as the Itanium processor was not received well by the market.</I></BLOCKQUOTE>
While factually correct about ''Itanic'', I do not agree with the conclusion. For the PC architecture, GPT is still the only scheme with some acceptance which saves the 2TB barrier (32-bit count of 512-byte sectors). It is implemented in Linux, BSD, and the recent versions of Windows.<BR>
I am not to say GPT <B>will</B> be the solution (would be a POV.) Booting is certainly still a problem to solve, and the BIOS makers are expected here; also AMD does not seem willingful to acceptance the EFI standard as a whole (but GPT can easilly be severed.)--[[User:AntoineL|AntoineL]] 15:51Z, December 5th, 2005

== Too technical ==

In reading this article, I have come across quite a few terms that would definitely not be readily identifiable to many people who use PCs. Jargon terms are used rather than simple English- defining/wikifying the terms would be a good idea. On the whole, the article is well written from a basic techie viewpoint, but that moves it away from being generally useful to a broad base of Wikipedia readers.

→ '''<span style="color:#006400;">P</span><span style="color:#4B0082;">.</span><span style="color:#008000;">Mac</span><span style="color:#228B22;">Uidhir'''</span> [[User talk:Pádraic MacUidhir|<span style="color:#9400D3;">(t)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Pádraic MacUidhir|(c)]]  05:34, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with you - i actually did try a bit at fixing that up a bit. I find it less confusing now, but it's also noticeably shorter (mostly because the [[List of partition utilities]] was given it's own article). [[User:Fiskars007|Fiskars007]] 21:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


I was about to try and fix a bit as well, but the oversimplistic Linux-centric view is very unhelpful, and AFAICT, inaccurate, especially all the stuff about how things are partitioned, it would be nice to see Slice vs Partition explanations and where it starts talking about LVM's perhaps a good example as provided by HP (not the Linux copies) would be more helpful than just this stuff about how Linux does it this way or that way. Most people don't use Linux. -- Steve Roome --[[User:82.46.105.47|82.46.105.47]] 23:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
: We already have a [[slice (disk)]] article, and [[BSD disklabel]]; would a merge make sense?  Note that partitions are used by DOS and NT-based systems as well as Linux. –[[User:EdC|EdC]] 22:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

:: We no longer have a [[slice (disk)]] article; we have a [[slice (disk)]] redirect to this article, with the article now mentioning that "slice" is a term used for disk partitions in Solaris and FreeBSD.  Should [[BSD disklabel]] be merged here as well?  Or should it be left separate, as it's a particular mechanism used to partition disks, just like the MBR mechanism? [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 20:27, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

== windows partition setup?? ==
talking about windows partitions... should the programs and files (eg my docs) be stored together on a 2nd partition, or both separately on a 2nd and 3rd?? - mar 1st <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:137.205.148.10|137.205.148.10]] ([[User talk:137.205.148.10|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/137.205.148.10|contribs]]) 18:20, 1 March 2006 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

:You should put this sort of question on a computer tech support forum or similar where it may be better answered - this is an encyclopedia, not an IT help desk.  If you'd like my recommendation, you would be able to get by with just one or two partitions - adding more partitions makes your life harder, and you run the risk of running out of space for example documents while you still have room for programs (like what often happens to users on [[Unix-like]] operating systems). [[User:Fiskars007|Fiskars007]] 21:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

== One technical detail ==
The drive mentions making the C drive "nonexistent" and putting the OS on another drive. Could this somehow be clarified? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:129.7.154.58|129.7.154.58]] ([[User talk:129.7.154.58|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/129.7.154.58|contribs]]) 00:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

:No idea how that works.  My computer actually boots [[Windows XP]] from H:, not C:, but I still have a C: drive.  I think that it's a requirement in Windows still that you must have a C: partition, a holdover from [[MS-DOS]]... but I really have no clue. Research should be done on this, or it should be removed. [[User:72.78.224.21|72.78.224.21]] 20:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
::Often, to create extra space, a hard disk is ''compressed''. When this happens, the compressed data is basically stored as one huge file on the hard disk. It is then opened and treated as a separate disk. To avoid confusion, the drive letters are often swapped, so that the compressed data is C: and the original hard disk (containing the compressed file and usually all or part of the system) is given another letter.[[User:130.101.100.106|130.101.100.106]] 16:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
:::This is no longer used by Microsoft windows. [[User:DGerman|DG12]] ([[User talk:DGerman|talk]])  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 00:50, 11 August 2011 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Needs more info. ==

On Primary, Logical and Extended Partitions. [[User:BKmetic|BKmetic]] 14:29, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
:I added a mention of them - they should be expanded.  I will mark it as a stub. [[User:Fiskars007|Fiskars007]] 21:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

== UNIX partitions?? ==

According to the article /boot is its own partition.  That makes no sense, /boot includes files that is needed to define how to mount the partitions defined in /etc.  For these reasons, /boot, /etc, /proc and /bin cannot be their own partitions or the system won't boot.  Better be correct.  And also, note that very few distributions actually make that making partitions by default. --'''<nowiki>[</nowiki>'''[[User:Svippong|Svippong]] - [[User talk:Svippong|Talk]]'''<nowiki>]</nowiki>''' 20:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
: What you said here is incorrect: I've been booting up my Linux systems for years with a SEPARATE <code>/boot</code> PARTITION. My /boot partition, as do all of them, contains a copy of the Linux kernel, which knows full well how to access whatever data it needs before booting up the whole system completely. You are correct that many recent distributions default to just dumping everything in a single '/' partition, but even under some Live CDs, with some planning, it's possible to install them to more than one partition. [[User:TheStarman|Daniel B. Sedory]] 10:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

== Partitioning = Dissection? Not always... ==

"In layman's terms, partitioning a hard drive makes it appear to be more than one hard drive, especially in how each partition is formatted for different operating systems, and in how files are copied from one partition to another."

Not true. Partitioning is not JUST subdividing a physical hard drive into multiple logical partitions, even creating one partition on one hard drive is still partitioning, just not as advanced. Also, partitioning several disks (such as disks in a RAID format) still do not involve taking one hard drive and dissecting it.

Basically, since I can't think of how to reword it, someone else think of it. (This is in the intro)

--[[User:DEMONIIIK|DEMONIIIK]] 01:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

: How about one of these:

::Partitioning a hard disk reserves some specific area within it so that an operating system may use that space as a whole logical drive or as part of a larger file system. A single hard disk may thus contain one or more logical drives or even just part of a logical drive that could span several hard disks.
::   <i>or</i>
::Partitioning a hard disk defines specific areas (partitions) within the disk so that they may be used by one or more Operating Systems. Any one partition may form part of a larger file system or it may be an entire logical drive.
::   <i>or</i>
:: Partitioning a hard disk drive defines specific areas (the partitions) within the disk. A partition may constitute an entire logical drive or it may form part of a larger logical drive which could span over several partitions and hard disks.
::: [[User:Intersofia|Intersofia]] 15:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

==Active partitions and list of file systems==
Could anyone give an explanation <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:193.112.172.12|193.112.172.12]] ([[User talk:193.112.172.12|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/193.112.172.12|contribs]]) 15:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small>

:It appears that trying to squeeze gigs of data into a CDROM will give rise to an ''active'' partition, up until the CDROM becomes full, after which the partition probably becomes ''inactive''.

:As for a list of [[file system]]s, that would be outside the scope of this article's main page.   Best to click your mouse on the link for file systems, and ask over there.   [[User:Dexter Nextnumber|Dexter Nextnumber]] ([[User talk:Dexter Nextnumber|talk]]) 01:16, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

== Partitions are not limited to hard disks ==

Correct me if I am wrong, which is why I haven't waded in to correct the article.
A partition is a way of dividing up space in a volume. A Volume can be anything from a file on a filesystem already present to a real hard disks volume, in some situations a volume can span a number of hard disks or other storage media.
So as I see it the hierarchy is a follows:

Physical Storage media<br />
>Volume<br />
>>Partition Table (or system specific equivalent)<br />
>>Partition(s)<br />
>>>>Filesystem<br />
>>>>>>File<br />

:It's more complicated than that (of course!). There are various ways of slicing and dicing disks, and partitioning is only one of them. You basically do one of of two things:
:* Join volumes together (either to make more space, or more redundancy):
:** Mirroring (RAID 1)
:** Striping (RAID 0)
:** RAID 5
:** Disk concatenation
:** Logical volume groups
:* Divide a volume into pieces (for ease of administration)
:** Disk partitioning
:** Logical volumes
:So you might do something like this with 4 100GB disks:
:#Partition disks up into 4*50GB and 2*100GB
:#Mirror equal sized partitions to get 2*50GB mirrors and 1*100GB mirror
:#Make a volume group out of 1*50GB mirror and 1*100GB mirror to give you a 150GB volume group
:#Divide the volume group into 2*75GB logical volumes
:#Use the 50GB mirror and 2*75GB logical volumes as you want
:I haven't even mentioned hardware RAID, SANs etc. The disks mentioned in step 1 could actually be made of multiple disks striped together in hardware (Do NOT do this! Mirror first, then stripe), or be network SAN volumes that have themselves been sliced and diced from a pool of hundreds of disks. Storage management is getting more and more abstract, with more and more layers. What is a "physical disk" in one layer is just a "logical volume" in the layer below.[[Special:Contributions/192.171.3.126|192.171.3.126]] ([[User talk:192.171.3.126|talk]]) 17:15, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

So the common usage of partitioning the hard disk is not strictly true.

And the term Volume comes directly from the literal meaning for space.

Interestingly on some systems, (GNU/Linux) included, one can write a filesystem directly to a block device and skip the partitioning altogether, a filesystem directly on a volume. In this case one does not, for example, mount "/dev/hda1" but the equivalent would be "/dev/hda".

With all of the references to hard-disks in this article it is a big edit and one that I would appreciate some feedback on beforehand.

Thanks.
[[Special:Contributions/81.138.5.131|81.138.5.131]] ([[User talk:81.138.5.131|talk]]) 14:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

: User 81.138.5.131, actually, it depends upon the system used to do the partitioning! Under any DOS OS or even many UNIX/Linux 'fdisk' programs, or anything that Microsoft now refers to as "Basic Disks," some of your comments above would definitely be in error.

:But before I go into that, let me say I'm glad you brought this up, since most servers no longer use simple "Basic Disk" configurations, and there should be an article which addresses what is commonly found on such systems! However, the present article has always (so far at least) reflected "Disk partitioning" on Basic Disks only. We need to ask some very experienced AND computer savvy Wikipedia editors if they believe the topic should be covered under different articles (maybe such articles already exist!), or if the present article should be altered to include both "Basic" and what Microsoft calls "Dynamic Disks."

:As to your comment: "A partition is a way of dividing up space in a volume." That is incorrect! The term "volume" or "logical volume" (at least under "Basic Disks"), is either equivalent in size to a partition or ''smaller'' than a partition, but you never divide a volume into partitions. A primary NTFS partition (on a "Basic Disk") will always be one sector larger than the ''Volume'' it contains. It is not the [[Volume boot record]] sector, but rather a 'backup' boot sector that it stores in the last sector of the partition. And all [[extended partition]]s, of which there should be only one per disk, will ''contain'' one or more "logical drive volumes" within it.

:When we move to "Dynamic Disk" schemes, a logical volume can 'span' across more than one physical hard disk! Will discuss this further at a later date. [[User:TheStarman|Daniel B. Sedory]] ([[User talk:TheStarman|talk]]) 22:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I have just a few minutes to add a bit more: You can define any word however you want, but that won't change how it's already being used by computer industry leaders, techs, journals, etc. This made me search Wikipedia for its use, and I found the article: [[Volume_(computing)]]. It does point out that ''volumes'' can exist without ''partitions'' and that volumes can span physical disks, etc., but begins by describing a volume as: "a single accessible storage area with a single [[file system]], typically (though not necessarily) resident on a single [[partition_(computing)|partition]] of a hard disk."

As to your comment, "one can write a 'filesystem' directly to a block device and skip the partitioning altogether," is this really any different than writing a ''raw image file'' to a floppy or hard disk drive under a Windows OS?! Unless you meant something entirely different, the 'file system' you speak of would still have to be formatted or even ''partitioned'' first and then formatted '''before''' being written to the disk. Perhaps you meant how some devices, such as a USB stick, etc. can easily be set up as a single volume (no MBR sector)? But these too could also be partitioned if I wanted them to be (except for using a diskette in a real floppy drive). The ''main point'' in all of this is that partitions are never within a volume, but the opposite is quite often true!  [[User:TheStarman|Daniel B. Sedory]] ([[User talk:TheStarman|talk]]) 10:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

:To me, «write a filesystem directly to a block device» is unmistakable — he literally means formatting the block device. I am using a harddisk formatted this way right now!
:Example: Let /dev/sdx be a harddisk (of the type BIOSes expect to find a partition table on).
:Then, noone stops you from doing `mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdx && mount -t ext4 /dev/sdx /mnt/MyEntireHarddisk`.
:Pros/Cons: You won't be able to boot from a harddisk formatted this way, and partitioning tools will mistakenly assume that unformatted==unused space, but the zero filesystem offset satisfies every thinkable alignment (ideal for SSDs).

:Let's define "volume" as where you can put a filesystem:
:* On Windows, that would be only the ''inside'' of partitions, and [[User:TheStarman|Mr Sedory]] would be correct.
:* On UNIX, storage media and partitions are interchangeable as block devices. Citing [[Logical Volume Manager (Linux)]]: "The term "volume" refers to a disk drive or partition thereof."
:[[User:Anordal|Anordal]] ([[User talk:Anordal|talk]]) 00:15, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== "Disk partition" versus "disk partitioning" ==

[[WP:VERB]] says "do not use verbs for article titles if there is a more appropriate noun title".  It's true that, when initially creating partitions, one describes it as "partitioning the drive".  However, discussion and documentation seems to use the noun form much more frequently... ''primary partition'', ''partition table'', ''swap partition'', etc.  In my opinion, the article should be renamed to "disk partition".   --[[User:Underpants|Underpants]] ([[User talk:Underpants|talk]]) 04:27, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

:Both words, "partition" and "partitioning", can be nouns or verbs, depending on their use in a sentence.  Since an article title isn't a sentence, there's no way to determine which part of speech is intended.  Giving Wikipedia the benefit of the doubt, I'd consider them both nouns when used as titles of articles, so [[WP:VERB]] doesn't apply. [[User:Unfree|Unfree]] ([[User talk:Unfree|talk]]) 17:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

==Halve==

From the article: "This partition is expected to: occupy the outer tracks of the hard drive, more than double the throughput, more than half the access time."

I suspect the editor intended to say "more than halve".  I'd change that, considering that more than half isn't as good as less than half, which was probably intended, but what about the verb-noun confusion? [[User:Unfree|Unfree]] ([[User talk:Unfree|talk]]) 17:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

==Block size==
Interesting but not included. Yet. --[[Special:Contributions/88.148.208.54|88.148.208.54]] ([[User talk:88.148.208.54|talk]]) 12:22, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

== Overflows and error recovery? ==

I tried to read the main page to this article and remain confused.

There are lots of [[file system]]s that support the concept of a "partition" but the main article seems to proceed on the theory that the user is using (and is familiar with) PC compatible harddrives, on which many partitions may be found.   But I am not a PC user, and don't understand how PC harddrives work.   I have only theory to fall back on, and since I don't have a PC compatible, I find their method of solving the overflow problem to be less than interesting.   In fact, most of the article on that account could be deleted because it is not particularly [[noteworthy|notable]] to those who do not own PCs.

How does a typical file system usually deal with an overflow condition?   Does the partition automatically expand, as by automatically editing itself, and thus getting bigger?   Or does the file system automatically create a new partition, and deposit the overflow there?   [[User:Dexter Nextnumber|Dexter Nextnumber]] ([[User talk:Dexter Nextnumber|talk]]) 06:33, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

: Typically, nothing happens when a filesystem becomes full. Resizing and creating new partitions or filesystems is usually a manual intervention. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 17:52, 4 January 2010 (UTC).

::So the data is lost?   [[User:Dexter Nextnumber|Dexter Nextnumber]] ([[User talk:Dexter Nextnumber|talk]]) 00:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

== Depositing error codes? ==

Is there a way of determining which partitions receive file read/write errors?   And if there are, which partition receives the error codes?  Or errors relating to misused channels?  Is this sorted in any way?  Is there at least one [[file system]] that automatically creates new partitions when old partitions are full, or when they approach a near-critical density?   [[User:Dexter Nextnumber|Dexter Nextnumber]] ([[User talk:Dexter Nextnumber|talk]]) 06:39, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

== Cylinder and volume allocations? ==

For those of us who are much more familiar with [[Block allocation map|BAM]]s than [[FAT]]s, how many [[file system]]s define their partitions in terms of allocated [[cylinder]]s and [[volume]]s?    I can't be the only one who thinks the FAT system is way too clumsy to be of any practical use.  [[User:Dexter Nextnumber|Dexter Nextnumber]] ([[User talk:Dexter Nextnumber|talk]]) 00:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

== what is partation ==

[[ahmad]] shoaib ahmad khan say that partation is the deviding the harddisk  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/119.73.4.192|119.73.4.192]] ([[User talk:119.73.4.192|talk]]) 11:28, 26 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Benefits==
"Having an area for operating system virtual memory swapping/paging." I'm not saying this is wrong, but is this an actual benefit? Just about every disk, even one with a single partition, already has such an area. If the disk is partitioned, then the page file will be limited to one partition. One theoretical advantage is that the read/write heads will not have as far to travel, as mentioned under "Short stroking". On the other hand, the page file may become fragmented, forfeiting some of those advantages.

Is there any objective evidence showing that it is faster or otherwise better to place a page file on a separate partition? [[User:Marzolian|Marzolian]] ([[User talk:Marzolian|talk]]) 20:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

:What this statement is referring to is a ''swap partition'', ie. a raw partition (without a filesystem on it) used entirely for swap space.  Older UNIX and UNIX-like OSs didn't support swap files, so swap partitions were the only option. For systems that support both, in theory, a swap partition should be faster, as pages are read and written directly from/to the disk device, without the overhead of filesystem I/O. In addition, some UNIX systems can use a swap partition for temporary storage of system crash dumps in the event of a kernel panic. See, for instance [http://www.sunmanagers.org/pipermail/summaries/2005-November/006913.html]. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 21:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC).

== Rename without "Disk" ==

Since this applies to general secondary storage (e.g., [[Solid-state drive|SSD]]s, etc.) and not just disks (e.g., [[Hard disk drive|HDD]]s), I propose renaming the article to not contain the word "disk". Perhaps there are better ideas but my initial choice is "Drive partitioning". [[User:Uzume|Uzume]] ([[User talk:Uzume|talk]]) 16:09, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

:Nomenclature is tricky here. While SSDs contain no circular components, and hence are not "disks", they also contain no moving parts, and hence are not, strictly speaking, "drives" either. To be pedantic, this article should probably be called "Secondary data storage device partitioning", but I think that might be going too far! --[[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 12:00, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:IBM faced this issue in the 1960's, and coined the term [[DASD]] as a generic term for referring to data cells, disks and drums. Why not use that here? [[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 15:16, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

::DASD is very IBM-specific and not widely used outside that context, IMHO. [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 22:09, 3 January 2011 (UTC).

: "Secondary data storage device partitioning" would go too far indeed :-). I would go for "Drive partitioning", although strictly speaking not correct. But you cannot just rename the article, because some details are only about HDD and not about SSD or USB or ... Eg. I don't know if an SSD also works with an MBR? --[[User:Mattias.Campe|Mattias.Campe]] ([[User talk:Mattias.Campe|talk]]) 14:19, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

:I don't think you partition tape drives, optical drives or floppy disk drives so "Drive partitioning" seems out.  I'm not sure u can partition a USB thumb drive either.  Since SSDs generally present themselves to the system as an HDD I suggest we leave the title alone and deal with SSDs with a footnote if at all.  After all in Windows SSD partitioning is under Disk Management.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 07:00, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

::"I'm not sure u can partition a USB drive either."  You can - I just did.  (I didn't really need that ancient Quicken backup anyway. :-)) 4 partitions.  And we're talking "USB drive" in the sense of "USB thumb drive", not "USB-attached HDD", which I'm certain you can partition - the OS, or, at least, most if not all OSes, don't care.  USB-attached drives, like Firewire-attached drives and Thunderbolt-attached drives, present themselves to the system, except ''maybe'' at the lowest layer, the same way HDDs do; whether I'd call that "as an HDD" is another matter. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 07:19, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

:::Thanks for the clarification.  To be even more clear, as I understood it when I wrote the above, USB thumb drives cannot be partitioned under the Microsoft supplied Windows OS since the drive is identified as removable media; however if the removable bit is changed so that the drive is recognized as non-removable media then it can be partitioned like any normal hard disk drive.  What I was not certain about was whether there were ways other than this hack to do so, particularly in OSes other than Windows.  I'm still not sure :-)  But that really doesn't matter since even if USB thumb drives can be partitioned by some means that doesn't mean all drives can be - can a "Firewire-attached [tape] drive" be partitioned? Therefore the proposed title change remains IMO inappropriate.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 17:12, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

::::The means I used to partition the thumb drive was [[Disk Utility]], the same app you use to partition any other disk on OS X, so, yes, you are now sure that there are ways other than a hack to partition USB thumb drives - or other any other drive externally attached via USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt/etc. - like other drives on at least one operating system.

::::The key technical difference isn't whether it's called a disk or not, the key technical difference is whether it's a random-access device or not.  If somebody built, for example, a USB [[DECtape]] controller offering a random-access-device interface, and plugged it into a box running OS X (or, I suspect, at least some other non-Windows personal computer operating systems), you'd be able to partition it if it had enough blocks to be partitioned and formatted on that OS.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's a good term to use other than "disk" for that; as noted above, the IBM mainframe term "Direct Access Storage Device" is "not widely used outside that context", so calling the page "DASD partitioning" would probably confuse most readers.  If somebody can suggest a term that would be understood by most people and that covers random-access devices regardless of whether they have spinning disks coated with magnetic material or not (and whether or not they're attached via an "external" bus or not), that would be great.  (I'm not sure about "drive" either, for no other reason that, for drives with removable media, you're partitioning the medium, not the device into which you insert the medium.) [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 19:40, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

::::Thanks for the info about OSX.  FWIW, I don't think partitioning is necessarily limited to random access; one could partition a tape medium - but I don't know of any OS that does.  Since OSX uses [[Disk_utility|"'''Disk''']] Utility" to partition USB Thumb drives can we now agree that the article title does not need to be changed? [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 07:36, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

== Scope of article? ==
The current text of the article discusses partitioning of disks on a PC, where the partioning information is carried on the disk itself. Is partitioning software where the data structures are external to the disk in scope, e.g., minidisks in [[CP-67]] and [[VM]]? [[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 15:16, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

: Yes, I'd say partitioning systems where there is no on-disk partition table should be included, if reliable sources can be cited. Regards, [[User:Letdorf|Letdorf]] ([[User talk:Letdorf|talk]]) 22:17, 3 January 2011 (UTC).

== lossless resizing? ==

I'm just wondering that there is virtually no Software known that '''declares''' to '''lossles''' resize partitions. For now i only see [[FIPS_(computer_program)|FIPS]] and [[ntfsresize]]. (Both with quite limited scope) --[[User:Itu|Itu]] ([[User talk:Itu|talk]]) 00:52, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

== dead link lissot.net ==

For http://www.lissot.net/partition/partition-03.html message: The domain name you have requested isn't available
--[[Special:Contributions/92.36.130.23|92.36.130.23]] ([[User talk:92.36.130.23|talk]]) 16:30, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

== dead link lissot.net ==

For http://www.lissot.net/partition/partition-03.html message: The domain name you have requested isn't available
--[[Special:Contributions/92.36.130.23|92.36.130.23]] ([[User talk:92.36.130.23|talk]]) 16:30, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

== Not destroying users files when parititions a disk ==

This article can be improved. I have C drive. However, I want to split this into two. However, I want to preserve the file data. I think a program like Partition Magic, seem to be able to create a partition without loosing data. However, there are a lot of programs out there, which do not preserve existing data on the disk. 

can there be additional information about programs which preserve user files versus programs which do not?

Thx,

:[[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal|Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal]].  There could be such information, but relying on Wikipedia as the place to get such information is unwise. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 21:38, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

== The definition of partitioning ==

There seems to be some confusion as to what the definition of partitioning actually is among some editors of the article. If you check the refs here<ref>[http://www.thefreedictionary.com/partition '''Partition'''], as referenced by ''[http://thefreedictionary.com The Free Dictionary by Farlex]'' at ''American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition''. Accessed April 30th 2015</ref><ref>[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/partition '''Partition'''] as referenced by ''[http://dictionary.reference.com Dictonary.com]'' at ''[http://foldoc.org The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © Denis Howe 2010];'' under subsection ''partition in Technology''. Accessed April 30th 2015</ref><ref>[http://foldoc.org/partition '''Partition'''] at [http://foldoc.org FOLDOC], 1996-12-06. Accessed April 30th 2015</ref>, you'll notice that the explicit definitions for partition in general usage and in ''computing'' usage are different. A '''partition''' in computing does not necessarily entail a ''division of space''; it is, rather, "a logical section of a disk", or "a section of storage space on a hard disk". Please note that the two are not the same. 

A logical container ''is'' what a partition is. You can have just one partition on a hard drive, and in fact, you ''must'' have ''at least'' '''one''' partition per hard drive (depending on OS). None of that echoes a division of area. You're just confusing what it can be and what it actually explicitly is.

Hopefully this wasn't too long-winded and got my point across clearly and succinctly.<br/>--

[[User:BlueFenixReborn|BlueFenixReborn]] ([[User talk:BlueFenixReborn|talk]]) 05:20, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

:Thanks for attempting to explain but I really don't get your point. None of the cited references support the term "container" but do use terms such as divide or section, either of which is preferable to "container."  The references are redundant and two are not particularly relevent to this article.  The article is about partitioning, not formating - formating may creat a first partition (I'm pretty sure not all OSes have partition tables) but partitioning implies segmenenting or dividing storage into more than one particition.  You have a strong POV but nothing in what you cite supports the use of container in this article.  Here is probably the most authorative definition of partition, from the IEEE Dictionary, "A portion of a storage medium that is treated as a if it were an individual medium, as in a partition of a hard disk."  No container.  Even your definitions support other language than container, i.e.
:*"a logical section of a disk", is created by dividing or segmenting the disk or 
:*"a section of storage space on a hard disk" is created by dividing or segmenenting the disk.
:in both cases using dividing or segmenting or sectioning with their ordinary english language meaning whether or not these two are the same.  Finally, I really don't understand why partitioning isn't a division of area, or more precisely storage volume; you have several times asserted such without any justification other than yr POV.  There is simply no justification for introducing an new term not supported by any reference and not particulary revelent to a readers understanding.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 19:39, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

::I understand that from all the references stated here thus far, it does not seem as if the word '''partition''' can mean something that is ''not'' a division of area; the way they have written it, surely they would have added an explicit note that the "logical section" can equal the entire span of the drive, right? As a result, things are somewhat shaky and ambiguous right now, and it would certainly seem that "partition" would mean a division of area and ''only'' a division of area.

::I also admit that my knowledge in this area is not as up to par as I would like it to be; <s>I think, actually, that my confusion stems from Microsoft's literature. They seem to refer to single volume VBR-laden devices, without an MBR, as partitions. (link [http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/formatting-disks-and-drives-frequently-asked-questions here], under ''What are partitions and volumes?'') So in the end it's an issue of semantics I think.</s> Sorry about editing this, but that actually doesn't make any sense. On Windows at least, you are always able to create/resize/delete partitions, even if you installed it onto a physical media without dividing it into multiple partitions. That suggests Windows always installs an MBR. Further, it means that you can have a single partition on an MBR-laden device. It wouldn't make any sense to start calling the same code (partition demarcations) different things now, would it? I therefore conclude that the definitions cited here, in especiality the IEEE one, do state it with the knowledge that said logical section ''can'' equal the entire span of the drive.

::<s>Which way do we go on this?</s> -- [[User:BlueFenixReborn|BlueFenixReborn]] ([[User talk:BlueFenixReborn|talk]]) 05:48, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

:::I agree with your now stricken comment that this is a semantics issue.  The article should not be limited to what Microsoft does; it has a few of the many File Systems and has done different things at different times.  The article should focus on what "Disk partitioning" is when used in a computing context.  My objection to the current edit is the use of a new and unnecessary term "container" that has no support in any reference and adds nothing over the more commonly used terms such as divide or segment.  
:::It is clear that a single storage volume can be one partition, I think the action verb "partitioning" is used to denote the creation, deletion or rearrangement of partitions.  Formating is the action verb for creating the first partition in File Systems that support them.  The article is about "Disk partitioning" not "Disk partitions" [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 08:46, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
:::There is no disagreement that one logical section can equal the entire storage medium; I just don't think and so far there are no reliable sources that creating such is "partitioning" other than perhaps the degenerative case where all partitions are eliminated.
:::Here are some reliable sources that support:
:::*[http://www.pcworld.com/article/185941/how_and_why_to_partition_your_hard_drive.html "Disk partitioning--separating one physical hard drive into multiple independent volumes"] - PCWorld
:::*[http://www.macworld.com/article/1159150/partitionharddrive.html When you partition, you are dividing the hard drive’s storage space into sections] - MacWorld
:::*[http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Partition/#explanation Partitioning is a means to divide a single hard drive into many logical drives.] - Linux
:::That covers most file systems by installations. Enuf said.  I'm going to make another attempt to revise the lede - please do not just revert but try instead to improve.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 08:46, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

::::Yeah, I see now. You're right: the problem actually stems from people's inconsistent usage of language. Instead of using the word "partitioning" as the verb form of the specialized computer term "partition", people seem instead to mean "partitioning" in the general sense of the word - namely, a division. Dumb.

::::So as a side note, the Microsoft ref I tossed in here actually agrees with the paradigm - it uses the noun form, "partition", so everything is consistent. -- [[User:BlueFenixReborn|BlueFenixReborn]] ([[User talk:BlueFenixReborn|talk]]) 04:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

<!-- keep at bottom of section -->
{{reflist}}

== Primary partitions limit ==

The "PC partition types" sections currently states that the "total data storage space of a PC HDD can contain '''at most four primary partitions''', or alternatively three primary partitions and an extended partition." This only applies to MBR (as confirmed by the sentence that follows). Is seems that most new computers now come with GPT instead of MBR. Shouldn't there be a mention that GPT has no such limit and no notion of extended partitions? [[Special:Contributions/24.202.251.80|24.202.251.80]] ([[User talk:24.202.251.80|talk]]) 18:48, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
:I added clarifications to avoid misleading readers into thinking that MBR is current technology. [[Special:Contributions/24.202.251.80|24.202.251.80]] ([[User talk:24.202.251.80|talk]]) 00:45, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== Poorly-written article ==

This entire article should be scrapped and rewritten by someone who isn't an "armchair computer expert" with no technical knowledge of non-PC systems.

The fundamental error being propagated throughout this article is the equating of a partition with a filesystem.  In the Linux and Windows world, that is often the case.  However, a partition and a filesystem are fundamentally different structures.  The former is an arbitrarily chosen fraction of the total raw disk space.  The latter is the organization of some or all of that fraction of total disk space.

Using x86 architecture hardware as an example, the [[bootstrap]] code in the machine's firmware has no knowledge whatsoever of partitions or filesystems.  It only knows enough to load physical sector zero (the "boot block") of the selected boot device—which is not necessarily a disk drive—into core at some agreed-upon location, examine the core image for a starting vector and then execute the code pointed to by that vector.  That code, in turn, ''could'' examine the boot sector image for a partition table, search the table for a partition in which second stage boot code would be found, load that code from the boot device and execute it, and so on.

Or, the boot block could contain only a basic bootstrap program that merely loads subsequent blocks from the boot device and treats them as a program, a practice that was quite common with proprietary minicomputers of days gone by.  In other words, partitioning '''''is not required''''' to use a disk, build a filesystem or load an operating system.  Partitioning is a convenience that allows more than one operating system to be present on the same storage medium.

A filesystem can exist on a disk that is not partitioned, as a filesystem organizes raw space, which in this case would be part or all of the entire disk's raw space.  There have been many computer systems that had no partitioning of any kind on their disks.  Try thinking outside of the PC world for a change.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/38.69.12.5|38.69.12.5]] ([[User talk:38.69.12.5#top|talk]]) 20:48, 4 April 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

: Oh, heck, you don't even need a file system. In the old days in the IBM mainframe world, disk storage was simply assigned to site-defined "data sets" (files) in terms of ranges of cylinder numbers, managed by the site. There were no files or directories or anything else you'd recognize as a "file system". [[User:Jeh|Jeh]] ([[User talk:Jeh|talk]]) 20:33, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

:: Jeh, the IBM/360 OS and DOS disks '''had''' file systems. The metadata were: volume label (~ superblock), VTOC (~ directory) and file label for each file. The "data set" was the official term but anyone called it "file".
[[Special:Contributions/78.29.74.199|78.29.74.199]] ([[User talk:78.29.74.199|talk]]) 09:45, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

== "Advantages" and "Disadvantages" sections ==

These things have existed completely unreferenced for over five years and been tagged as OR/CN for almost two. I'm deleting them. I will delete them again if they're restored without a reference to a RS for every claim. [[User:Jeh|Jeh]] ([[User talk:Jeh|talk]]) 20:40, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Interesting that you deleted the entire section but left the list in the unix-like systems which actually applies to any partitioning.
Before I noticed your edit I felt it necessary to add "why bother" to the introduction paragraph.
Perhaps a  better approach on you part would be to research various claims and add references. Maybe some of the original discussion. should be restored.
Sincerely,
[[User:DGerman|DGerman]] ([[User talk:DGerman|talk]]) 00:42, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

== Where is incompatibility? ==

"The Windows Disk Manager in Windows Vista and Windows 7 utilizes a 1 MB partition alignment scheme which is '''fundamentally incompatible''' with Windows 2000, XP, OS/2, DOS as well as many other operating systems"

Any new and old OS may use not-aligned partitions. For devices with physical block size is 512 it works perfectly. For devices with larger physical blocks it still works but with decreased performance.
And older OS will also work with new aligned partitioning and even get advantage of better performance.

The only incompatibility is possible if offset 63 sectors for the first partition was hardcoded by someone (too silly).

[[Special:Contributions/78.29.74.199|78.29.74.199]] ([[User talk:78.29.74.199|talk]]) 08:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

== Proposed merge of [[Partition table]] into [[Disk partitioning]] ==

The stub [[Partition table]] does not contain enough content to merit a second article. [[User:Ethanpet113|Ethanpet113]] ([[User talk:Ethanpet113|talk]]) 11:18, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
:{{agree}} It{{'}}s been forever since someone replied to this, so, support, and I'm gonna go ahead and merge it. <small>Feel free to revert me if I'm wrong.</small> [[User:WhoAteMyButter|<span style="color:#ffb300;text-shadow:1px 1px 6px rgba(255,153,0,0.6)">WhoAteMyButter</span>]] ([[User talk:WhoAteMyButter|<span title="Talk Page">📨</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/WhoAteMyButter|<span title="Contribs">📝</span>]]) 21:18, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

== Definition of partition in this article is wrong ==

A partition is a partition, it is the divider between spaces, not the actual space. [[Special:Contributions/218.214.190.174|218.214.190.174]] ([[User talk:218.214.190.174|talk]]) 10:45, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
:In the computing field, it's the space.  In this case, the divider isn't a physical object taking up space (a wall between two rooms takes up space that belongs to neither room, but that's not the case for partitions in primary or secondary storage).  See, for example, [https://www.lexico.com/definition/partition the Lexico definition for UK English] and [https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/partition the Lexico definition for US English] which list, as definitions 2.1 and 1.3, respectively, for "partition", "Each of a number of portions into which some operating systems divide memory or storage." as the definition in "Computing". [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 18:28, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
::When studying computer science we learned a partition is what you put between two logical drives.  If you think it is the actual logic drive, how many partitions do you have by default on your floppy disc?  [[Special:Contributions/218.214.190.174|218.214.190.174]] ([[User talk:218.214.190.174|talk]]) 3:28, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
:::I don't have floppy discs any more, but, when I did, they had one by default, taking up the entire drive. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 01:07, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
::::My recollection is that under MS and PC DOS FDs could not be partitioned.  Regardless, Microsoft's 1988 MS-DOS Encyclopedia (p. 90-91) clearly describes and depicts partitions as the space allocated and not the divider.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 07:38, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
:::I don't know who teaches that "a partition is what you put between two logical drives", but anybody who does is apparently under the illusion that you put something betweenn two logical drivers; it's quite possible for the last block of one logical drive to be followed immediately by the first block of the next logical drive, with the only thing between them being whatever separates any pair of blocks on the physical drive, even if those two blocks are part of the same partition. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 05:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
: "A fixed disk can be divided up into separate areas called partitions." (page 4-3), "In order that more than one operating system can use the fixed disk, the fixed disk must be dividied into separate areas called partitions." (page 4-12), "The space within a given partition is contiguous," (page G-1), "Each partition can contain a boot record on its first sector, and any other programs or data that you chose--including a copy of an operating system." (page G-2), "The number of sectors allocated to the partition is kept in the '# of sects' field." (page G-7) -- IBM Disk Operating System, First Edition (January 1983), Version 2.00.  This pretty clearly states that the partition is a disk area, not a demarcation between two such areas, and that the partition contains data, rather than being something between areas of data. I'm not aware of any reference to a disk "partition" earlier than January 1983, though there was alternate terminology on other systems prior to that date, so I think this may be definitive for "partition". Also, if the partition were a demarcation between two areas, then deleting a partition would merge two areas into a single area, but that is not what happens. In IBM DOS, MS-DOS, and most Microsoft and Microsoft-compatible operating systems, floppy disks have no partitions at all, and have no partition table, as the entire floppy is usually used to contain a filesystem. Even though a hard disk (or equivalent) on a PC can be configured as a single storage space, that normally is a partition and such a drive normally does have a partition table. --[[User:Brouhaha|Brouhaha]] ([[User talk:Brouhaha|talk]]) 00:50, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
:: It’s partition in the sense of partition of a set, not a partition between two rooms.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Peter Flass|Peter Flass]] ([[User talk:Peter Flass#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peter Flass|contribs]]) 00:07, 4 February 2022 (UTC)</span>
::: And see [[Partition (disambiguation)]] for some additional uses of the noun "partition" that don't use it to refer to an object that's placed between two items. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 05:02, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

== Where did the term "partition" originate? ==

AFAIK the earliest use of partition in a computing environment was in 1983 with [[IBM_PC_DOS#PC_DOS_2.x|IBM PC-DOS 2]] which first supported HDDs and introduced the [[Fdisk#IBM_PC_DOS|FDisk]] command.  It could support up to four "partitions."  My recollection is that the term was later adopted by Apple, the various UNIXs and even IBM mainframe OSes.  Anybody have any earlier usage?  Probably should add something about its origin to this article.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 07:52, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
:[http://man.cat-v.org/unix-6th/4/rp The UNIX V6 man page for the RP-11/RP03 device and driver] speaks of the disk being divided into "sections", "pseudo-disks", and "portions".  [http://man.cat-v.org/unix_7th/4/rp The UNIX V7 man page for that device and driver] uses "sections", "pieces" and "pseudo-disks".  No "partitions" at that point. The rp page in [http://bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/System_III/UNIX_Users_Manual_Release_3_Jun80.pdf the System III manual], from 1980, uses "sections" and "pieces".  The same applies to the RM80, RP03, and RP07 pages in [http://bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/System_V_Release_1/301-926_UNIX_System_V_Release_1_Administators_Manual_Jun82.pdf this UNIX 5.0 (a/k/a System V) manual] from 1982.
:[http://man.cat-v.org/unix_8th/4/ra The UNIX V8 man page for the RA60/RA80/RA81 MSCP devices and driver] uses "portions", "pseudo-devices" - and "partition". [http://bitsavers.org/pdf/sun/sunos/1.0/800-1085-01_System_Managers_Manual_Nov83.pdf The System Manager's Manual for the Sun Workstation - Models 100U/150U], from September 1983, also refers, in Appendix B, to "partitions".
:So, at least for UNIXes, the use of "partition" may have come from DOS. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 10:38, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
:That depends on the context. IBM used the term [[Partitioned data set]] for [[OS/360]] libraries and used the term [[Memory management (operating systems)#Partitioned allocation|partition]] for storage allocation in <u>[[DOS/360]] and</u> OS/360 [[OS/360#MFT|MFT]].
:In the context of virtual disk drives, PCDOS is the first I'm aware of. I believe that BSD used the term ''slice''. --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 19:04, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
::[https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4.2BSD/usr/man/man4/hp.4 The 4.2BSD hp man page] from 1983 (for MASSBUS disks; nothing to do with Hewlett-Packard) uses "partitions".
::[http://bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/System_V_Release_4/0-13-947086-7_Unix_System_V_Rel4_System_Administrators_Guide_1990.pdf The SVR4 System Administrator's Guide], from 1990, uses the term "partition" on page 5-23.  On page 5-25, however, they show device names for partitions of the form {{mono|cldOsO}}; as I remember, the "s" there stands for "slice", which I think was originally a System V-ism.  [http://bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/System_V_386_Release_3.2/UNIX_System_V_386_Release_3.2_System_Administrators_Reference_Manual_1989.pdf The System V/386 Release 3.2 System Administator's Reference Manual], for SVR3.2 on x86 machines - probably mainly PC-compatible machines - uses "partition", but that may have come from the use of that term on DOS/Windows; I haven't yet found any SVR3 or SVR2 administrator documentation for other platforms, to see whether they use "slice". [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 20:01, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
:::Maybe I was thinking of Solaris. --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 01:09, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
::::Well, this is amusing.  [http://bitsavers.org/pdf/sun/solaris/2.2/801-4048-10A_Solaris_2.2_Basic_Installation_Guide_199305.pdf The Solaris 2.2 Basic Installation Guide] says, in the glossary entry for "slice":
::::{{quote|A discrete portion of a disk, configured during installation. Under SunOS 4.l.x and System V Release 3, slices were referred to as partitions.}}
::::which seems to say that "slice" is an SVR4ism.  But, as noted above, the SVR4 System Administrator's Guide use "partition", not "slice".  The Solaris 2.2 document says that the device names are of the form {{mono|c''n''t''n''d''n''s''n''}}, where "c" stands for "controller", "t" stands for "target", "d" stands for "device, and "s" stands for... slice, so I think I correctly remembered that as being the convention.
::::So I have no clue what the history of the terminology for disk pieces is in System V - when did they use "partition", when did they use "slice", and when did they use something else? [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 03:05, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
:CP/VM use “minidisk” for the same concept. [[User:Peter Flass|Peter Flass]] ([[User talk:Peter Flass|talk]]) 02:47, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

:The DEC 1984 [http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/rt11/v5.1_Jul84/AA-5286F-TC-T1_RT-11_System_Release_Notes_Jul84.pdf RT-11 System Release Notes] (p15/102)states the following:
::1.4.2.4 Logical Disk Subsetting Handler (LD) - The logical disk subsetting handler lets you define logical disks, which are subsets of physical disks. You define logical disks by assigning a logical disk unit number to a file on a physical disk. You can then use the logical disk as though it were a physical disk.
:which suggests DEC had not yet adopted "partition" for block devices.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 22:41, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

:At least as early as 1980, Corvus hard disk systems for the Apple II could be configured into "virtual drives" that each occupied a contiguous range of tracks and were typically used to support multiple operating systems, e.g., Apple DOS and Apple Pascal. Corvus did not use the word "parititon" at the time, and they were not the first to do this, though they might have been the first to do it on a microcomputer. The earliest Corvus documentation I see only is from 1982, but I personally used their early disk system based on an IMI 7710 8-inch hard drive back in 1980, and the virtual drive concept was present. Note that this is different than having multiple Apple DOS volumes; Corvus packed many Apple DOS volumes (about 140KB each) into a single "virtual drive". Corvus offered such systems for other computers as well, including the LSI-11, and probably had "virtual drives" on those as well. This all might have been inspired by the CP-67/CMS "minidisk" on IBM mainframes, circa 1968, or perhaps there may have been something else even earlier. In my opinion, the DOS/360 (and OS/360, etc.) Partitioned Data Set is not nearly as similar to a modern "partition" as the CP/CMS minidisk is, as the PDS acts more like a single file or database. --[[User:Brouhaha|Brouhaha]] ([[User talk:Brouhaha|talk]]) 01:10, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
::A [[partitioned data set]] is a type of [[library (computing)|library]] and has nothing to do with either databases or DASD partitioning; it's a logical partitioning of a file rather than a physical partitioning of a medium. --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 01:23, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
:Not sure about the usage, but the word itself is quite old and came from Latin > Old French > English. Broadly it means 'to divide (something) into parts'. www.etymonline.com[https://www.etymonline.com/word/partition] Presumably it goes back at least as far as MS-DOS/PC-DOS. -- I would note that the term 'partition' is used in that general sense in describing how to breakdown an unsorted collection of elements when implementing the quick-sort ([[Quicksort]]) algorithm. Not sure if the word itself appears in the original 1961 publication of the algorithm. [[User:Jnharton|Jnharton]] ([[User talk:Jnharton|talk]]) 21:58, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

== Scope of article ==

The concept of partitioning is older than the word. Should the article cover partitioning schemes even when the nomencltaure is different, e.g., [[minidisk (VM)|minidisk]], slice? --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 00:53, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
:I'm working on a "History" section for the article which will cover much of what is in [[Talk:Disk_partitioning#Where_did_the_term_"partition"_originate?|"Where did the_term "partition" originate?" section]] plus a whole bunch of info I am digesting from cctalk@classiccmp.org.  I don't think the article should cover obsolete "partitioning" but current systems beyond [[Disk_partitioning#PC_partition_types|PC partitioning]] should be added.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]])
::You can find [[z/VM]] manuals at <https://www.vm.ibm.com/library/720pdfs.html>; I don't know where the equivalent [[AIX]] manuals are. --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 21:30, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
:::To which of the UN*Xes named "AIX" are you referring?  Manuals for newer versions of the one remaining version (RS/6000 and successors up to IBM Power Systems) are available at https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/aix.  Some documentation for the RT PC version can be found on Bitsavers at http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/pc/rt/aix/.  Documentation for various AIXes, including older versions of the RS/6000-and-successors AIX, AIX for PS/2, and AIX/370 can be found at http://ps-2.kev009.com and https://ardent-tool.com/AIX_1-3/AIX_documents.html.  (For some reason, both of those sites lump AIX/370 documentation amongst AIX for PS/2 documentation.) [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 22:12, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
::::Based on  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]]'s {{tq|I don't think the article should cover obsolete "partitioning" but current systems beyond [[Disk_partitioning#PC_partition_types|PC partitioning]] should be added. }}, I meant the current AIX on [[IBM Power Systems]]. If someone adds details beyond the history for, e.g., AIX/ESA, then citations of the relevant manuals would be appropriate.  --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 14:51, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Tom94022}} Does "beyond" in "beyond [[Disk_partitioning#PC_partition_types|PC partitioning]]" mean "in addition to, even if it predates PC partitioning", "introduced after" or something else? [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 19:48, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
::::::I meant "currently using" or words to that effect.  AFAIK the term is now ubiquitous, and it would be useful to so identify the current OS's usage. If a current OS uses a different term that must be in this article.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 20:31, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
{{outdent}}
I.e., systems that were used before PC partitioning was introduced and that aren't currently being used should only be covered in the history section, with the rest of the article covering all systems that are currently being used, including but not limited to classic PC partitioning? (Should we also cover systems that were introduced ''after'' PC partitioning, but that aren't currently being used, if any, in the History section as well?) [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 21:06, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
:History should include systems introduced after the PC, regardless of whether they are still in use. The [[disk partitioning#partitioning schemes|Partitioning schemes]] section needs a ''VM minidisks'' subsection plus whatever the nomenclature is for POWER. --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 22:18, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
::"POWER" as in [[IBM POWER (software)]]? [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 23:23, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
:::FWIW I'm not suggesting the either the history section (when written) be exhaustive nor that the sections be added for every current OS and their content be all inclusive.  That seems like too much work bordering on OR.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 07:55, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
::::How inclusive is "all inclusive"?  I think it would be a mistake to, for example, omit schemes that slice up physical devices but don't (or originally didn't) happen to call the pieces "partitions", or schemes introduced before PC-style hard-disk partitioning.  Carving physical devices into sections dates back at least to early UN*Xes (I think it may originally have been done because the file system, at the time. didn't support block numbers big enough to handle large devices such as RP0x's), and perhaps minidisks could be considered an even earlier flavor of disk-carving. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 08:36, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::I was thinking of keeping the history section very short, something like this with references:
::::::
:::::I'm still working on a list of terms.  Each current usage section could be as detailed as the editor liked. [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 23:13, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::::Shirley a history section should include [[VM (operating system)#Minidisks|minidisks]] in [[CP-67]] and [[VM (operating system)|VM]] --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 13:52, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
::::::::Agree. Just because minidisks are not called “partitions” doesn’t mean they don’t belong. Are they the earliest instance of partitioning? Is there any way to say yes or no? If they are, the article should say so. [[User:Peter Flass|Peter Flass]] ([[User talk:Peter Flass|talk]]) 18:58, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::Thanks for "minidisk".  I intend to document other terms as I did for "minidisk" above and highlight the earliest yet to be determined separately.  Minidisk may in fact be first.  If anyone else wants to start a history section, please go ahead; you can see how I intend to proceed but do as you wish.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 19:49, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::: [[Talk:Disk_partitioning#Draft_History_Section|Moved to separate section]]
:::::::::Does anybody have documentation of CP-40? I suspect that the CP-67 minidisks originated there. --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 10:11, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::I think the answer is no, see ref<ref name="ref2" /> below.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 20:49, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::::Most of the discussion in ''Virtual I/O'' applies to CP-40, and the second paragraph doesn't actually say that minidisks were new in CP-67. I've posted a query in IBM-MAIN. --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 13:04, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::::Style question: should we use quotation marks, e.g., "foo", or italics, e.g., ''foo'', when discussing specific words? --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 13:04, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
::::::::” MOS:TECHNICAL MOS:TERM A technical or other jargon term being introduced is often being mentioned as a word rather than (or in addition to) playing its normal grammatical role; if so, it should be italicized or quoted, usually the former.” (MOS:ITALICS) [[User:Peter Flass|Peter Flass]] ([[User talk:Peter Flass|talk]]) 19:11, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

{{od}}
The Creasy paper<ref name=IBMJRD/> is intended as a source for the 1966 date rather than for the term ''minidisk''. 
:I don't have access to the paper so perhaps a quote to justify the 1966 date would be appropriate.  I changed the date in a ref for consistency but note that [[History_of_CP/CMS#1967–68:_CP-67]] states that work started on conversion of CP-40 in September 1966 and CP-40 didn't go into production until early 1967 so I have a hard time accepting 1967 as any sort of production date. [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 01:44, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
:This seems to suggest 1967: [https://multicians.org/thvv/360-67.html The 360/67 was announced in August 1965, and 360/67 serial #2 was delivered to the University of Michigan in January 1967]" [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 01:59, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't reference names be descriptive rather than using magic numbers? I'm restoring the original names to correct the broken link. Please preview any changesa you make to references to ensure consistency.
:No there is no reason for consistency. Wikipedia frequently uses magic numbers especially when it culls references to the bottom of an article. I used magic numbers to put them in the same sequence as the list of other terms, i.e. the first term ''logical disk'' uses "ref1," etc., and will continue to do so on things I add. [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 01:44, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
::Whoops, I had the URL for the journal rather than the URL for the article. The link should work now. Sorry. --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 00:53, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Also, per the MOS text quoted by [[user:Peter Flass|Peter Flass]], shouldn't we be using italics rather than quote marks? --[[User:Chatul|Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul]] ([[User talk:Chatul|talk]]) 02:27, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
:I'm indifferent between "quotes," ''italics'' or '''boldface''' since it seems all are possible under [[MOS:TECHNICAL]].  Of the three, perhaps '''boldface''' might be the best choice.  Anyone can make the change as long as it is done consistently. [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 01:44, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
{{od}}
The draft history section seems complete - does anyone object to it being made the first section of the article.  Note we have an obligation to add sections regarding current usage for at least one UNIX, Apple iOS and zOS.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 21:43, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

===Draft History Section===
<!--Discussion above, keep just the current draft in this section-->
:IBM in 1983 was an early if not first use of the term ''partition'' to describe dividing a block storage device such as an HDD into physical segments.  The term’s usage is now ubiquitous. Other terms used in the art have included ''logical disk'',<ref name="ref1" /> ''minidisk'',<ref name="ref2" /> ''portions''<ref name="ref3" />, ''pseudo-disk''<ref name="ref3" />, ''section''<ref name="ref3" />,  '''slice'''<ref name="ref4" /> and ''virtual drive''<ref name="ref5" />.  One of the earliest such segmentation of a disk drive was IBM's 1966<ref name="IBMJRD" /> usage in its [[CP-67]] operating system of ''minidisk'' as a separate segment of a hard disk drive.<ref name="ref2" />


===Reference list===
<!--Discussion above, keep just the current references for the draft in this section-->
:{{Reflist|refs=
<ref name="ref1">As used by DEC [http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/rt11/v5.1_Jul84/AA-5286F-TC-T1_RT-11_System_Release_Notes_Jul84.pdf RT-11 OS] circa 1984</ref>
<ref name="ref2">As used in IBM [[History_of_CP/CMS#1967–68:_CP-67|CP-67]] beginning 1966 see: {{cite web
 |url=https://techchannel.com/Enterprise/02/2017/virtualization-past-current
 |title=Virtualization’s Past Helps Explain Its Current Importance |last=Rogers |first=Bob |date=February 6, 2017 |publisher=TechChannel  |access-date=February 9, 2022
 |quote=A minidisk is only part of a physical disk but appears to be a separate disk to the guest.}}</ref>
<ref name="IBMJRD">{{cite journal 
 | journal     = [[IBM Journal of Research and Development]]
 | issn        = 0018-8646
 | volume      = 25
 | number      = 5
 | pages       = 483-490
 | date        = September 1981
 | title       = The Origin of tlie VM/370 Time-Sharing System
 | author      = R. J. Creasy
 | url         = https://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~stjones/proj/vm_reading/ibmrd2505M.pdf
 <!-- | article-url = https://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~stjones/proj/vm_reading/ibmrd2505M.pdf
 | url         = https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/tocresult.jsp?isnumber=5390571&punumber=5288520 -->
 | access-date = February 10, 2022
 }}
</ref>

<ref name="ref3" >The 1980 [http://man.cat-v.org/unix-6th/4/rp UNIX V6 manual] for the RP-11/RP03 device and driver] speaks of the disk being divided into ''portions'', "pseudo-disks'' and ''sections''.  </ref>
<ref name="ref4" >The 1993 [http://bitsavers.org/pdf/sun/solaris/2.2/801-4048-10A_Solaris_2.2_Basic_Installation_Guide_199305.pdf Solaris 2.2 Basic Installation Guide] in a glossary entry that '''slice''' is "A discrete portion of a disk, configured during installation." Under SunOS 4.l.x and System V Release 3, slices were referred to as partitions.</ref>
<ref name="ref5" >The 1980 [http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/corvus/constellation_II/7100-06111-02_Constellation_II_Generation_Guide_Apple_II_Apr1984.pdf Corvus Guide] for Apple II installations allows division of a hard disk drive into ''virtual drives''.</ref>
}}