View source for Talk:Cecil Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore

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==æ==
I'm seeing Cecilius rendered as "Caecilius" in several places including on the charter for the Maryland colony. Does anyone think that's wrong? Does anyone think the "ae" should be rendered with the funky æ character? help!
:The use of 'ae' vs 'æ' is purely a matter of stylistic choice in Latin and French spelling. It is however not standard usage in English. Latin words and names were commonly transcribed into English by consolidating 'ae' to 'e.' Hence in British English the word 'anaesthetic' is written 'anesthetic' in American English as the spelling reform movement was less conservative in the United States than in Britain. [[User:Jm3106jr|Jm3106jr]] ([[User talk:Jm3106jr|talk]]) 23:36, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
I agree that it is stylistic in Latin and French. It is not stylistic nor correct in English. It is appropriate to mention the alternative historic spellings, but this article is in English and the references need to be in English without the typographic ligature. [[User:BeadleB|BeadleB]] ([[User talk:BeadleB|talk]]) 19:11, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

== The Name Baltimore ==

As I understand, the town [[Baltimore, Maryland]] comes from Caecilius calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore. But where does the name of Baron come from? I cannot find such place in Ireland, at least. Is tehere a possible feedback to America, since the Baltic Sea is in Russian ''Baltiiskoye More'', and in Maryland and Delaware there have been lots of newcomers from Sweden, and very probably Russia, too. Does anybody know? thanks --[[User:Höyhens|Höyhens]] 11:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

:It is (or at least was when the title was created) a place in [[County Longford]]. [[User:Proteus|Proteus]] [[User_talk:Proteus|(Talk)]] 12:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

::The word [[Baron]] is a title of nobility not a place name. Thus the title 2nd Baron Baltimore means that Calvert was the Second Baron of Baltimore in Ireland. The original town of [[Baltimore, County Cork|Baltimore]] - after which the capital of Maryland is named - is located in [[County Cork]] on the southwestern Irish coast and not in County Longford. [[User:Jm3106jr|Jm3106jr]] ([[User talk:Jm3106jr|talk]]) 23:46, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

:::A very late response, but this isn't correct. There is indeed [[Baltimore, County Cork|a Baltimore in County Cork]], but the title refers to [[Drumlish#Baltimore|the (much smaller) Baltimore in County Longford]]. (And I took the question "But where does the name of Baron come from?" to be intended to mean "But where does the name of the Barony come from?", rather than asking for the origin of the word "Baron".) [[User:Proteus|Proteus]] [[User_talk:Proteus|(Talk)]] 11:01, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

==Date of birth==
I know that numerous sources list Cecil's date of birth as August 8, 1605, but Browne (page 4) has him born in 1606. Perhaps this should be mentioned in the article as well. [[User:Qblik|Qblik]] 22:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

== Latin Phrase deleted ==

In the beginning paragraph after Cecil Calvert, 2nd Lord Baltimore's full title, I deleted the following sentence:  "A [[Latin]] term is 'Scvto Bonae Volvntatis Tvae Coronasti Nos, 1632'." This is not a Latin version of his title, but is a text encircling the reverse side of the original colonial seal of the [[Province of Maryland]] and is still used as the [[Seal of Maryland|Great Seal of the State of Maryland]] today. The Latin text encircling the seal, ''Scuto bonæ voluntatis tuæ coronasti nos'', is from Psalm 5:12 in the [[Vulgate]], the Latin bible. It translates as "Thou hast crowned us with the shield of thy goodwill." The founding date of the colony, 1632, completes the text. [[User:Jm3106jr|Jm3106jr]] ([[User talk:Jm3106jr|talk]]) 15:31, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

== Burial Site Incorrect in Article? ==

This article claims the 2nd Baron is buried in the USA on city hall grounds in Baltimore. The site thepeerage.com states he is buried at St. Gile's-in-the-Fields Church, London, England, this seems more likely as he never visited Maryland.  If anyone knows definitively please correct the article, it would be appreciated.  Link to the "thepeerage.com" article below. 

Update: This error appears to have been fixed. 

http://thepeerage.com/p2615.htm#i26146  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/96.244.91.35|96.244.91.35]] ([[User talk:96.244.91.35|talk]]) 16:50, 18 September 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Roman Catholicism not official ==

The [[Province of Maryland]] was never officially Roman Catholic. Trinitarian Christians, including Catholics, were officially tolerated according to the [[Maryland Toleration Act]] of 1649, although the Act was temporarily rescinded in favor of Protestants between 1654-1658. Toleration lasted another 31 years until it was ended permanently during the [[Protestant Revolution (Maryland)| Protestant Revolution of 1689]]. Roman Catholics and non-Protestants would not be fully emancipated for 87 more years in Maryland until the American Revolution of 1776. [[User:Jm3106jr|Jm3106jr]] ([[User talk:Jm3106jr|talk]]) 03:14, 11 November 2013 (UTC)/00:01, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

== Baltimore's colony in Newfoundland confusion ==

This section is confusing. There has been an expansion request on it since 2008. As it reads now, the father had title to a part of Newfoundland, the son got title to the entire island, but the father opposed this new title. Is this correct? It IS possible that it was because of family feuding, but it seems that the father might be happy that the family possessions had been expanded so much. Can anyone clarify this?  [[User:BeadleB|BeadleB]] ([[User talk:BeadleB|talk]]) 19:18, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


==Requested move 31 December 2013==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''Page moved'''. No opposes in full listing period. One support !vote out of the four supports (including the nominator) don't give any rationale at all, and a second one of the four uses slightly dubious logic surrounding whether "Cecilius" is an English or Latin name, but all in all it seems quite uncontroversial. {{RMnac}} &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 15:53, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

----

[[:Cecilius Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore]] → {{no redirect|Cecil Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore}} – His name was Cecil. The [[Oxford Dictionary of National Biography]][http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/37257] and [[the Complete Peerage]][https://archive.org/stream/completepeerageo01coka#page/393/mode/1up] confirm that he was named after [[Robert Cecil, 1st Earl of Salisbury]] and not after [[Caecilia (gens)|anybody called Caecilius]]. Even this article says he was known as Cecil not Cecilius. [[User:Opera hat|Opera hat]] ([[User talk:Opera hat|talk]]) 17:14, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

===Survey===
:''Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with'' <code><nowiki>*'''Support'''</nowiki></code> ''or'' <code><nowiki>*'''Oppose'''</nowiki></code>'', then sign your comment with'' <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>''. Since [[Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion|polling is not a substitute for discussion]], please explain your reasons, taking into account [[Wikipedia:Article titles|Wikipedia's policy on article titles]].''

*'''Support''' [[User:Jm3106jr|Jm3106jr]] ([[User talk:Jm3106jr|talk]]) 19:14, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support''' [[User:Folklore1|Folklore1]] ([[User talk:Folklore1|talk]]) 16:21, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom. Sources generally give "Cecil". -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 20:22, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

===Discussion===
:''Any additional comments:''

::I agree in full. His name was Cecil Calvert in English, not Cecilius (or Caecilius) which is simply Cecil in Latin. [[User:Jm3106jr|Jm3106jr]] ([[User talk:Jm3106jr|talk]]) 19:16, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[WP:RM|requested move]].  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[WP:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

== Cecil Calvert was not the first Proprietary Governor of Maryland. ==

Currently this entry opens with the false claim: "Cecil Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore (8 August 1605 – 30 November 1675), was the first Proprietor and Proprietary Governor of the Province of Maryland." But in fact the first Proprietary Governor of Maryland was Cecil's younger brother, Leonard. See for example the wikipedia entry [[List of colonial governors of Maryland]], the [https://www.britannica.com/biography/Leonard-Calvert Encyclopædia Britannica] or the [http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/speccol/sc3500/sc3520/000100/000198/html/198bio.html Maryland State Archives], all of which confirm that Leonard was Maryland's first Proprietary Governor. While Cecil was the Proprietor of Maryland, he never set foot there, unlike his younger brother whom he appointed as governor of his colony. I will remove the errata and cite Talk. [[Special:Contributions/24.170.226.11|24.170.226.11]] ([[User talk:24.170.226.11|talk]]) 01:12, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

== "Reichsgräfin"? ==

Why is Anne Arundell described as "Reichsgräfin von Wardour"?  The additional description "daughter of Thomas Arundell, 1st Baron Arundell of Wardour" is accurate and complete and gave her no title beyond "The Hon." and certainly no claim to a title in the Holy Roman Empire. [[User:Curmudgeonly Pedant|Curmudgeonly Pedant]] ([[User talk:Curmudgeonly Pedant|talk]]) 19:40, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

== Cecil or Cecilius? ==

His son, Charles, lists his father as Cecilius in the info box, but click the link and the title here is “Cecil”? I’m looking at a patent from 25 August 1664 that says “Cecilius” and is signed by his son, Charles, 3rd Baron Baltimore. Which is it? [[User:Lady Meg|Lady Meg]] ([[User talk:Lady Meg|talk]]) 06:14, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:My apologies, it’s in Latin. Looks like it’s actually says “Caecilius” and it’s already been talked about. Thanks. [[User:Lady Meg|Lady Meg]] ([[User talk:Lady Meg|talk]]) 06:18, 23 April 2025 (UTC)