View source for Talk:Bus (computing)

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{{merged-from|Memory bus|12 July 2021}}
{{merged from|Address bus|14 April 2019}}

== main article picture ==
Does nobody else see the striking resemblance of the main article photo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_%28computing%29#/media/File:PCIExpress.jpg) to an actual school bus?
I bring this up because at first glance, I thought I had navigated to the wrong wiki page and was about to hit the back button when I looked closer and realized that this was a photo of yellow card slots with capacitors as wheels.  I might suggest another photo is used as the landing image as silly as it sounds.  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/130.76.24.16|130.76.24.16]] ([[User talk:130.76.24.16#top|talk]]) 22:19, 25 April 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== bus width ==
Question about definition of bus width.  Is it just the bandwidth of the bus times the duration of a CPU cycle?  It would be nice if that were defined so I'd know for sure.

The "bus width" is the number of data bits that can be simultaneously transferred.
Usually that is identical to the number of data wires in the bus -- i.e., the number of wires in the [[data bus]].
The [[memory bus]] to a typical memory chip includes 8 wires in the [[data bus]], 15 wires in the [[address bus]], and 3 wires in the [[control bus]], giving a 8 bit bus width.
The various serial buses transmit 1 bit at a time, so they have a bus width of 1 bit (no matter if they transmit that bit on a single-ended wire, or differentially on 2 wires, and no matter whether or not there are other control wires associated with it).
--[[User:75.19.73.101|75.19.73.101]] 23:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Erp [[User:Shubhy824|Shubhy824]] ([[User talk:Shubhy824|talk]]) 19:33, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

== article name ==
It's actually a more general term than computing.  So this probably means moving.  Or at least there needs to be another page, and have them linked together.  Hmm.  [[:electrical bus|electrical bus]] perhaps?  --[[User:drj|drj]]

----

Do we really need separate articles for parallel bus, serial bus, internal bus, external bus? Can they be all covered here?

Any chance of some of Serial access, Serial transmission, Serial port merging?
----
"Buses" or "busses"? In American English at least, the former is the plural of "bus", while the latter is the third-person present tense of "to buss", meaning "to kiss".

: [[Fowler]] says "buses" -- [[User:Tarquin|Tarquin]]

== RS-232 ==
Is [[RS-232]] a bus? Surely, it is not, it is strictly point-to-point and hence '''not''' a bus in any sense. The same goes for [[RS-422]] and probably a few others too -- [[User:Egil|Egil]]
: A bus should connect more than two elements. I agree that RS 232 is not reasonably a "bus" and is never described as such in the EIA standard (at least the Rev C that I have).  I'm taking it out. --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] 15:57, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
: RS-422 is a bus. [[Serial Attached SCSI]] is not a bus (as mistakenly stated in the article). It is easier to understand topologies reading [[Network topology]].  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/185.57.28.108|185.57.28.108]] ([[User talk:185.57.28.108#top|talk]]) 14:30, 1 April 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== CAN bus ==
Hello! I'm a newbie here and as I didn't find anything in Wikipedia about the controller area network (CAN) bus, I intended to create its entry. But I'm not sure if I should add a link to it in the Computer bus page or in the Electrical bus page. What do you suggest?

By the way, to have an idea about what is the CAN bus, look at: http://www.pcwebopedia.com/TERM/C/controller_area_network.html.

Thanks. -- [[User:CAkira|Akira - Cleber Akira Nakandakare]]

:An article about [[CAN]] ([[controller area network]]) is a very welcome contribution. It definitely think it should be listed on the [[Computer bus]] page, under ''' Examples of External Computer Buses''', Serial -- [[User:Egil|Egil]] 07:06 21 May 2003 (UTC)

:: done. --[[User:75.19.73.101|75.19.73.101]] 23:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

== RS-232 ==
I think that the view of RS-232 not being a bus is conceptual, as someone else suggested about CAT5 nework connections.  As a specific example, Centronics parallel connections are supposedly point-to-point, but parallel scanners and parallel ZIP drives (not to menion SCSI-via-parallel and IDE-via-parallel) have been out for years, which can daisy-chain between the computer and a printer.  There are multiplexers available to run several independent signals over a serial connection; these are litle different from USB hubs and the like. [[User:Scott McNay|Scott McNay]] 01:43, 2004 Feb 26 (UTC)
: The PC-compatible world is full of stunts like that, but desparate work-arounds and expediencies in my opinion don't qualify the IBM PC parallel port as a "bus". It wasn't intended to be used as such, shucks, it wasn't even bidirectional till late in its evolution.  --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] 16:27, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

== readability ==
The following was on the main page in a hidden (html) comment:
''This is not a technical encyclopedia; this is a general-purpose encyclopedia.  Thus, I think we should make an effort to make things understandable by non-techs, if possible, without sacrificing correctness or details.''
copied across and removed from article page by [[User:VampWillow|VampWillow]] 20:51, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
: A diagram is in order. I'll put it on my to-do list unless someone beats me to it. --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] 16:27, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

==Asynchronous vs synchronous buses==
The article says "All the equipment on the bus has to talk at the same speed, and thus shares a single clock." Surely this isn't true, since, for example the [[Motorola]] 68000 family implmeented asynchronous buses, where data transfer would vary in speed depending on how fast a peripheral chose to assert the "DTACK" (data transfer acknowledge) signal. --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] 16:16, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

== Spectra and Multics ==

RCA Spectra machines did not run Multics...multics was in the GE and the Honeywell camp. Spectra was a pseudo IBM compatible system running operating systems TOS, TDOS and TSOS. I suspect the comments about the BUS could be correct...but for Spectra machines of those that ran Multics?

tg

I agree.  But with either answer, it would probably not be the first such system.  I don't know what the first would be, but I would guess that Burroughs D825 would be an early example. http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Computer_Structures__Readings_and_Examples/00000280.htm
Perhaps this is too obscure to be illustrative. [[User:DHR|DHR]] 23:40, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

== Three Bus Structure ==

Do you guys think it'd be worth mentioning the three-bus architecture? As I understand it, it's an important model and is used a lot in computer systems. I could write a little about it if it's a good idea. [[User:Haddock420|Haddock420]] 12:33, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

''Yes, please write a little about it. --[[User:75.19.73.101|75.19.73.101]] 23:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)''

: Yes, please write about it. Are you talking about the 3 buses in a [[system bus]] architecture, or some other three-bus architecture? --[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] ([[User talk:DavidCary|talk]]) 16:34, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

== Article name ==

As nobody really calls the subject of this article a "computer bus" (do they?) I propose a name change, to "Bus (computing)" to fit in better with standard Wikipedia naming.  Any comments? [[User:JulesH|JulesH]] 09:50, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree - I was going to say exactly that. As nobody has responded within 5 days I'm renaming the page and setting the old name to be a redirect. I was going to edit all the links to here, but when I checked there were far too many for that to be viable. Perhaps a bot will sort that out later. [[User:Peskydan|Dan Pope]] 13:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

what is a another term for a computer bus? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/204.29.116.62|204.29.116.62]] ([[User talk:204.29.116.62|talk]]) </span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP -->

Is there a significant difference between a [[computer bus]] and a [[expansion bus]]?
If not, both terms should redirect to the same article,
with the difference (if any) explained in the article.
--[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] ([[User talk:DavidCary|talk]]) 14:31, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

:Ah, it seems [[expansion bus]] redirects to [[expansion card]], which is somewhat a different topic. This topic is the architectural concept, which might be implemented in a number of different physical ways. One common way is to have cards that plug in, often some time after the other parts of the computer are assembled, which is what that article describes. There are many other computer buses that are not interfaces to plug-in cards; now days they are often even within the integrated circuit itself, so would only be visible under a microscope, and are fabricated when the integrated circuit is. Perhaps this could be explained better in these articles? [[User:W Nowicki|W Nowicki]] ([[User talk:W Nowicki|talk]]) 16:38, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

== Is Bus an Acronym? ==

is bus an acronym?.. if so what is the full form?... <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:59.163.89.34|59.163.89.34]] ([[User talk:59.163.89.34|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/59.163.89.34|contribs]]) 13:00, 13 July 2007</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->


I think it's important to clarify this one, particularly with references.  Some people say it's short for Omnibus (latin for "for all"), wiki is the only source I've come across that mentions Bi-directional Universal Switch.  I'll make it a project of mine for the next few days to find a source either proving or disproving it's acronym-ness. [[User:Alexswilliams|Alex Williams]] 23:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
:I don't think that the '''bus''' we are talking of here is an acronym. Here is a list of '''[http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/BUS bus]''' acronyms which possibly do not suit the article here.<br/>--[[User: Ahsasin8|Ahsasin8]] 16:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that bus is not an acronym in this context, it's just an accessible metaphor for a transfer mechanism (like a motor bus).   I think we need to remove the statement unless someone can come up with a credible citation.    [[Special:Contributions/155.229.196.12|155.229.196.12]] ([[User talk:155.229.196.12|talk]]) 14:01, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

I'd also like to add that my suspicion that "binary unit system" is a backronym arises from the fact that, as an IT professional, it just doesn't make any sense here.  It's not a system of binary units or for binary units.   Ultimately the information it transmits is binary, but you could say that of pretty much any computing resource.  [[Special:Contributions/155.229.196.12|155.229.196.12]] ([[User talk:155.229.196.12|talk]])  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 14:07, 9 January 2013 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Here a web page of a dictionary: https://www.lexico.com/definition/bus
It says that bus come from omnibus. Can it be considered reliable?  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.57.93.218|82.57.93.218]] ([[User talk:82.57.93.218#top|talk]]) 09:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busbar#:~:text=In%20electric%20power%20distribution%2C%20a,local%20high%20current%20power%20distribution.
:The most logical etymology seems to be based on busbar. I didn't find a good source tho (some quora answers explaining the connection). For me as a software engineer this feels a lot better than the connection to the transport vehicle (that's derived from Latin omnibus).
:German Wikipedia also says some old drawings labeled rack extensions "BU" for Back mounted panel Unit and these were plugged into Back mounted panel Unit sockets. That also feels like it could be correct. [[Special:Contributions/80.187.122.1|80.187.122.1]] ([[User talk:80.187.122.1|talk]]) 15:10, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

==Bus speeds for different devices==
Some processors, such as the 68000, have provision for slow devices on the memory/IO bus and have a line (DTAK, for "data transfer acknowledge") which the peripheral will assert to signify it's had enough time to read/write the bus. So it's not strictly true that increasing bus speeds required increasing peripheral speeds, at least in the case of asynchronous bus designs.  The whole world isn't an IBM PC, you know...or even an S100, for that matter. --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] 18:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

==PCI Express Bus Photo==
The photograph nearest the top of the page states that the image is of a PCI Express bus... however the PCI Express article states that the PCI Express standard does not use a traditional bus, it uses lanes instead.  -- [[Special:Contributions/71.207.13.141|71.207.13.141]] ([[User talk:71.207.13.141|talk]]) 05:16, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

:Yes, but that's just on the electrical level. All the pins from different lanes are still arranged in a single strip. Hence why the connectors differ in size: they have a different number of lanes each. -- [[user:intgr|intgr]]&nbsp;<small>[[user talk:intgr|[talk]]]</small> 17:33, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


:PCI Express is not a bus, neither is RS-232  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.55.0.135|70.55.0.135]] ([[User talk:70.55.0.135|talk]]) 21:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== AGP after PCI? ==
Didnt AGP come before PCI?



== Generalization ==
I think the whole organization of "bus" articles related to data buses needs to be re-vamped. The way I think about it, a computing bus as described in this article is just a specific case of a data bus. For that matter, there is a whole family of data buses not addressed: those used to connect special-purpose computers in aircraft, cars, and probably lots of other applications. For example, RS-422, RS-485, ARINC 429, MIL-STD-1553, and CAN, to name a few. By the way, the term bus in my experience is commonly used to describe point-to-point (two device) communication networks. I would like to see a citation for the "must connect more than two devices" assertion.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/63.114.24.9|63.114.24.9]] ([[User talk:63.114.24.9|talk]]) 05:13, 9 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I agree that this article should mention (and link to articles about) more general concepts as well as specific cases.
I added some of the specific items you mentioned to [[Bus (computing)#Serial 2]] section of this article.
Feel free to make further improvements.
--[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] ([[User talk:DavidCary|talk]]) 01:01, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

== Data bus redirect? ==

Why does [[data bus]] redirect here? They are entirely separate things. You to combine a data, address and control bus (or multiplex them all) to make a bus that is described in this article. [[User:Rilak|Rilak]] ([[User talk:Rilak|talk]]) 11:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:I agree with this, although I'm not sure if a control bus is necessary in <i>every</i> bus.  However there is a worse terminology problem here which is the circularity of the definition; if we say "A bus is composed of a data bus, an address bus and a control bus," it still leaves the question, "What is a <i>bus</i>?"  If allowable by quotation guidelines, I'd recommend quoting the definition here: http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/definition/bus  (I found that definition the most helpful in clearing this word up; I'm unaffiliated with that site.) [[Special:Contributions/99.193.239.11|99.193.239.11]] ([[User talk:99.193.239.11|talk]]) 23:27, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Alas, the term "data bus" is frequently used for 2 different kinds of [[bus (computing)]]:
* the parallel data section of a [[system bus]] (which also includes an [[address bus]] and a [[control bus]]), such as some (but far from all) of the conductors in [[expansion card]] edge contacts, as Rilak mentions.
* Many Wikipedia articles, such as [[ARINC 429]], [[MIL-STD-1553]], [[SpaceWire]], etc., use the phrase "data bus" (often "serial data bus") to describe an entire [[field bus]], including all the conductors in each connector, etc.

Apparently someone decided that this "bus (computing)" article was the most specific article that mentions both kinds of "data bus". Would some other approach serve our readers better?
--[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] ([[User talk:DavidCary|talk]]) 01:37, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

== Contradiction and apparent attempt to exclude HyperTransport ==

The article's lead explicitly rules out point-to-point links as being a "bus". Yet that is what HyperTransport is, and it's listed as a bus further down in the article. Furthermore, I think this is mostly semantics. You can add a discussion about the strictness (or lack thereof) for the dictionary definition of "bus", or even "not a bus", but by and large the common usage is that "bus" refers to whatever connects the various components of a computer together and vice versa (nobody actually calls HT a "point to point link" except in formal papers). If anyone objects to this and cannot reconcile it with a separate paragraph about the meaning of "bus", please discuss further. [[User:Ham Pastrami|Ham Pastrami]] ([[User talk:Ham Pastrami|talk]]) 04:38, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
: IEEE Std. 100 says a bus in the context of a microcomputer system connects "a number of devices" - that is, more than two. I don't think it's useful or appropriate to describe a point to point link as a "bus" since a bus implies that multiple devices can connect to it. I'm all in favor of common useage defining usage but not at the cost of ambiguity. Otherwise the word "bus" is meaningless.  --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] ([[User talk:Wtshymanski|talk]]) 15:36, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
::A "number" is not "more than two", unless you are referring to another normative definition. The dictionary[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/number] provides: ''(1b) an indefinite usually large total'' and ''(3) a distinction of word form to denote reference to one or more than one''. The 1b definition rules out point-to-point links and traditional buses equally; neither kind of bus is typically built for a "usually large" number of devices. In practice, there are also several high-profile precedents: [[front side bus]] and [[back side bus]] connect only 2 devices, unless you also want to count the clock; the "[[AGP]] bus" would also be a misnomer. Again, the article as-is mentions HyperTransport in several places anyhow (really, as it should) and using a conflicting, ''interpreted'' definition (correct me if I'm wrong, but '''IEEE does not actually say''' "Point-to-point is not a bus") is what leads to ambiguity. You have the lead and the body claiming different things. Also, I'm not at all sure what is meant by the word "bus" becoming meaningless. Aside from that one sentence, the article provides a solid background on what a computing bus is. It's not like this creates the ability for someone to add "a computer bus is a monkey". Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is [[WP:NOTMANUAL|not a technical manual]] (see point 5 especially), and things like IEEE or dictionary definitions are not necessarily appropriate to define the scope of an article. [[User:Ham Pastrami|Ham Pastrami]] ([[User talk:Ham Pastrami|talk]]) 07:48, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
::: Why does the IEEE definition not then say "two or more" instead of "a number"? That would be clear and would have shown an intent by the IEEE to include point-to-point links. Dictionaries often don't define things by exclusion because dictionaries (unlike Wikipedia) have to worry about space.  A point-to-point link and a bus have significantly different properties - bus contention doesn't exist in a point to point link, for example. ( Recall all those desparate stunts in the 5 1/4 disk days for "networking" a classroom using nothing but the RS 232 ports and a bunch of diodes, pull up resistors, clever software, and optimism. RS 232 is not a bus and will bite the hand of anyone who treats it like one.)  What is the difference between a point to point link and a bus?  If they are synonymous, why are their two different terms? Personal computer users have long taken the Humpty Dumpty attitude towards words and definitions, starting with the murky idea of "formatting" a hard drive. I'm of the opinion that our technical vocabulary is the poorer for this practice. --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] ([[User talk:Wtshymanski|talk]]) 14:59, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
::::Perhaps the IEEE definition is intentionally vague for the express purpose of not locking down the concept to specific electrical implementations? Again, if you want to make a more specific distinction between the general idea of a bus and the difference between traditional and point-to-point, you can, you just need to be more clear that there is a wider context and not narrow the article's purported scope. Within its common English usage, the difference between a point-to-point link and a "bus" is the same between an apple and a fruit. One is a specific type of the other. [[User:Ham Pastrami|Ham Pastrami]] ([[User talk:Ham Pastrami|talk]]) 16:41, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== BS detected ==

"Almost always, there was one bus for memory, and another for peripherals"

This is a [[contradiction]] with [[text]] later in the [[article]] and also '''false'''. While a separate [[I/O]] space existed on [[Intel]] processors, this is only true for them and derived [[CPU]]s such as the [[Zilog Z80]]. On the other hand, [[Motorola]] processors, [[MOS]] CPUs etc. mapped [[hardware register]]s in the same memory space with [[RAM]] and [[ROM]]. They were accessed using the same instructions and only one [[data bus]] existed on the [[majority]] of [[1980s]] computers. --[[Special:Contributions/213.130.252.119|213.130.252.119]] ([[User talk:213.130.252.119|talk]]) 11:17, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

:(replying two years late...) No, this is '''not''' false. The statement is discussing much older systems, the mainframes and minicomputers of the 1950s and 1960s. These generally had completely separate memory and I/O buses. Digital's [[PDP-11]] of 1969 was one of the first systems to unify memory and I/O into a single bus. --[[User:Colin Douglas Howell|Colin Douglas Howell]] ([[User talk:Colin Douglas Howell|talk]]) 00:48, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

== Further disambiguation needed ==

As a non-anglophone, I occasionally need to browse throu various pages to understand a voice. <br />
In this voice the case was:<br />
''"Early computer buses were literally parallel [[electrical bus|electrical buses]] with multiple connections"''.<br />
I clicked on "[[electrical bus|electrical buses]] " to understand the sentence, but I was redirect to the electric ''coaches'', wich I think is not what ment here...<br />
Any help?<br />
<br />
Thanks & regards,<br />
Michele, Italy.<br />[[Special:Contributions/77.89.20.230|77.89.20.230]] ([[User talk:77.89.20.230|talk]]) 16:24, 15 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thanks a lot to user '''OlEnglish''' who updated the page<br />

== WTF!? ==

<blockquote>In computer architecture, a bus is a subsystem that transfers data between components inside a computer, or between computers.</blockquote>
What about comp-flashdrive? [[User:JLincoln|Josh, linguist]] ([[User talk:JLincoln|talk]]) 14:46, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

: I think of a USB keyboard as part of the computer when it is plugged into a [[desktop computer]]'s USB port.
: Likewise I think of a [[USB flash drive]] as part of the computer when it is plugged into a desktop computer's USB port.
: In these two cases, the USB bus "transfers data between components inside a computer", even though the keyboard and the flashdrive are outside the [[computer case]].
: [[User:JLincoln|Josh, linguist]], can you help us [[Wikipedia: Make technical articles understandable]] by editing this to use easier-to-understand English?
: Is there a better way of saying the bus transfers data between parts of a computer, even when some of those parts are outside the computer case, without going into a lot of technical caveats in the first sentence of the article?
: --[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] ([[User talk:DavidCary|talk]]) 14:13, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
::I think what you just said is fine, David: "The bus transfers data between parts of a computer."  But I'm surprised that nowhere in the article is it mentioned that a bus can transfer data between <i>more than two</i> parts at a time.  The definition I found here: http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/definition/bus was the most helpful for actually grasping the word "bus" itself.  I understand this is an encyclopedic article, not a dictionary; however it should start with a clear and precise definition of the subject being discussed. [[Special:Contributions/99.193.239.11|99.193.239.11]] ([[User talk:99.193.239.11|talk]]) 23:20, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

== Merger discussion ==

Hi guys,

I think it would make sense to merge the [[Address bus]] article into a section within this article. It's a very small, barely maintained article, and its content seems very similar to that of this article. Or is there some big distinction between the two concepts I'm overlooking?

[[User:InternetMeme|InternetMeme]] ([[User talk:InternetMeme|talk]]) 21:58, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

:There's no "data bus" article, for example, so just mentioning that some particular CPUs have separate address and data buses, possibly of different sizes and discussing that in this article makes sense to me. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 23:38, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: '''Support''' merger; [[Address bus]] is a disaster of an article, probably because there isn't enough content for a stand-alone article. [[User:power~enwiki|power~enwiki]] ([[User talk:Power~enwiki|<span style="color:#FA0;font-family:courier">π</span>]], [[Special:Contributions/Power~enwiki|<span style="font-family:courier">ν</span>]]) 19:38, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
:'''Support''' - better not to waste the reader's time with a jump to an article that provides little additional content, which could be non-redundantly incorporated here. --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] ([[User talk:Wtshymanski|talk]]) 02:01, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
::{{merge done}} [[User:Klbrain|Klbrain]] ([[User talk:Klbrain|talk]]) 05:17, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

== Requested move 14 January 2022 ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. There is dispute whether "computer bus" is a common enough name for the article content that it works as an article title. <small>([[Wikipedia:Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small>  ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 01:12, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
----


[[:Bus (computing)]] → {{no redirect|Computer bus}} – Per [[WP:NATURALDISAMBIG]] and [[WP:CONCISE]]. [[User:Rublov|Rublov]] ([[User talk:Rublov|talk]]) 17:19, 14 January 2022 (UTC) <small>—&nbsp;'''''Relisting.'''''&nbsp;[[User:Natg 19|Natg 19]] ([[User talk:Natg 19|talk]]) 01:00, 22 January 2022 (UTC)</small>

*'''Support''' per nom. [[User:Egsan Bacon|Egsan Bacon]] ([[User talk:Egsan Bacon|talk]]) 17:45, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom and per [[User:Egsan Bacon|Egsan Bacon]]. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold">'''''BD2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 18:25, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. [[User:Rreagan007|Rreagan007]] ([[User talk:Rreagan007|talk]]) 18:52, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. “Computer bus” is not a common term.  It’s akin to “car axle” — accurate but not natural disambiguation because it’s not commonly used.  —[[User:Born2cycle|В²C]] [[User_talk:Born2cycle#top|☎]] 14:10, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
::I think using "Car axle" as a naturally disambiguated title would be perfectly acceptable too. And a quick Google search for "computer bus" yields over a quarter of a million search results. Seems common enough to me. [[User:Rreagan007|Rreagan007]] ([[User talk:Rreagan007|talk]]) 01:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
:::Well, I get 323k hits for "computer bus", which seems like it should be enough, except "data bus" produces 3.6 million hits, which demonstrates how relatively '''un'''common "computer bus" is in relevant context. --[[User:Born2cycle|В²C]] [[User_talk:Born2cycle#top|☎]] 01:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
::::Are you proposing that the article be moved to [[Data bus]]? [[User:Rreagan007|Rreagan007]] ([[User talk:Rreagan007|talk]]) 02:05, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
:::::No, I think the current disambiguated title meets criteria the best, certainly better than the proposed title. My point about data bus is that it’s a type of “computer bus”, and yet it’s far more commonly used in the relevant context. Again, it shows that “computer bus” is a relatively '''un'''common term. —[[User:Born2cycle|В²C]] [[User_talk:Born2cycle#top|☎]] 21:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
::::::[[WP:NATURALDISAMBIG]] covers (in fact, ''was written to cover'') this exact case, though: {{tq|Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, '''albeit not as commonly''' as the preferred-but-ambiguous title.}} (emphasis mine) As you yourself observe, the term is used hundreds of thousands of times on the web. It's even used in the article where ambiguity isn't an issue, because it's a natural way to refer to the article's topic. [[User:Rublov|Rublov]] ([[User talk:Rublov|talk]]) 22:01, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I’m well aware of that wording and my interpretation is that it discourages natural disambiguation in a case where the natural disambiguation candidate is not merely “not as commonly” used as the preferred-but-ambiguous title (in this case, “bus”), but it’s less commonly used by more than an order of magnitude. I don’t think you can ascertain whether the [[WP:NATURALDISAMBIG]] “also commonly called” hurdle is met by a raw count of number of ghits.  To be “commonly called” something it has to be relative to how often it’s referenced. The ghit count for “data bus” gives ″us an idea of the order of that.  And it overwhelms the hit count for “computer bus”.  A term that is used an order of magnitude less often is not used sufficiently often to say the subject is “commonly called” that.  —[[User:Born2cycle|В²C]] [[User_talk:Born2cycle#top|☎]] 00:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
*A search of the article for ''computer bus'' deflates {{u|Born2cycle}}'s argument and leads me to '''support''' this proposal. There appears to be no significant downside to adopting [[WP:NATURALDISAMBIG]] here. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 16:32, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Per B2C. I also think it's somewhat confusing, people may assume it refers to heavily computerized vehicles. In this case, specificity from a parenthetical disambiguation is needed.<sub><small>[[User:Zxcvbnm|ZXCVBNM]] ([[User Talk:Zxcvbnm|TALK]])</small></sub> 00:14, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
::The standard for [[WP:RECOGNIZABILITY]] in our article titles is "The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize." I highly doubt that someone familiar with the subject matter of this article would be confused by the proposed title as you have suggested. [[User:Rreagan007|Rreagan007]] ([[User talk:Rreagan007|talk]]) 01:27, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
:::I’m a computer engineer and am opposed precisely because I don’t recall ever encountering the term proposed for title here. For a sanity check I verified with ngrams. Again, compared to other bus terms commonly used in the context of computing, “computer bus” is relatively obscure[https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=computer+bus%2Cdata+bus%2Ccontrol+bus%2Caddress+bus&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ccomputer%20bus%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cdata%20bus%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ccontrol%20bus%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Caddress%20bus%3B%2Cc0].  —[[User:Born2cycle|В²C]] [[User_talk:Born2cycle#top|☎]] 06:15, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' per B2C. I don't think the proposed title meets the "commonly called in English RS" threshold set by [[WP:NATURALDIS]]. The trend shown in the ngram data they linked is also reflected in Google Scholar results, where "computer bus" gets only around 5k results, compared to 23k for "address bus", 16.5k for "control bus", and 69k for "data bus". There are 2.8m scholar results for ''computer bus'' (without quotes) - the results for the quoted term represents around 0.2% of that quantity. [[User:Colin M|Colin M]] ([[User talk:Colin M|talk]]) 20:52, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support [[data bus]]'''. I don't think the proposed title is common enough, per these sources. '''Slight preference to move otherwise''' because natural disambiguation is always preferred. [[User:Red Slash|<span style="color:#FF4131;">Red</span>]] [[User talk:Red Slash|<b><span style="color:#460121;">Slash</span></b>]] 20:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
{{abot}}

== Bus Interface Unit ==
{{Archive top |result=Description at [[BIU]] updated 15:11, 15 March 2022 (UTC)}}
What is a Bus Interface Unit (BIU)? The entry on the dab page [[BIU]] suggests that this is equivalent to a bus, but a basic check online seems to indicate that a BIU is the part of the CPU that interfaces with the [[system bus]]. How should the entry on the dab page be worded? Should [[Bus interface unit]] be created as a redirect, and if yes, to which article? Does that term need to be defined in an article? – [[User talk:Uanfala|Uanfala (talk)]] 02:06, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
:The entry for "Bus Interface Unit" on [[BIU]] says that a "Bus Interface Unit" is "a part of the processor that interfaces with the rest of the PC", which indicates that it's the part of the CPU ("a part of the processor"); however, it links to [[bus (computing)]] - that's where the error is.
:If the part of a processor that connects to buses elsewhere on the computer deserves a page of its own, it should have one, and that entry should link there.  Otherwise, the entry should ''not'' link the term, and should say something such as
:* Bus Interface Unit, the part of a processor that interfaces with a [[bus (computing)|computer bus]]
:so the link is in the description. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 03:10, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
{{Archive bottom}}

== The "Computer Busses, Ports and Peripheral Devices" reference appears to have copied from this page ==

In [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bus_%28computing%29&type=revision&diff=1095267120&oldid=1093823400 this edit], [[User:Chagropango]] added a reference for the claim in the first paragraph in {{section link|Bus (computing)|History}}.

I downloaded the paper from [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/295105861_Computer_Busses_Ports_and_Peripheral_Devices its ResearchGate page].  It appears to "support" that claim by having copied a huge amount of text from this article; the date of the paper is January 2016 (it's from the [[Consumer Electronics Show]], which is held in January), and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bus_(computing)&oldid=683512891 a version of this article from 2016-10-30] appears to contain most of the text that appears in the paper (starting with the first paragraphs of both), so I'm guessing the author of the paper copied from this article, rather than somebody copying from the paper into this article.

The good news is that it means this article isn't a huge copyright violation; the bad news is that it means that paper can't be used as a reference for anything in the article. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 20:04, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for looking at it more closely than I did. Should this be reverted then? [[User:Chagropango|Chagropango]] ([[User talk:Chagropango|talk]]) 05:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

:The reference should be removed, because using it would be a case of [[citogenesis]], but I already did that.  Nothing else needs to be done - this article isn't copying from the paper, the paper is copying from the article. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 07:56, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

== Claimed distinction that buses provide power is not necessarily true ==

I don't agree with [[Bus (computing)#Implementation details|#Implementation details]] statement that "An attribute generally used to characterize a bus is that power is provided by the bus for the connected hardware." For contrary examples, [[Power over Ethernet]] devices get their power from the central hub, but are not considered a "bus". And as the article mentions, USB devices are often but not always powered by the USB bus's power supply pin but are considered a "bus", and avionics buses don't.

Sometimes "buses" are distingushed in that that a "bus" is for localized communication, while a "network" is for more widespead communication.  But then there are things like "[[Controller-area network bus]]" which is called both a "network" and a "bus", it is localized to within a vehicle. And there are [[Network on a chip]] which are localized but is a network but not called a "bus".

Maybe that paragraph can be dramatically shortened to just be that a "bus" resembles a [[busbar]]. [[User:Em3rgent0rdr|Em3rgent0rdr]] ([[User talk:Em3rgent0rdr|talk]]) 18:27, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

:That whole section is largely unsourced. Perhaps editors are just making stuff up. The [[busbar]] connection is also not properly supported by a source. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 03:51, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

== CPUs with a second set of pins ==
The article says, in {{section link|Bus (computing)|Background and nomenclature}}, that

{{blockquote|It is possible to allow peripherals to communicate with memory in the same fashion, attaching [[adapter (computing)|adapter]]s, either on the [[motherboard]] or in the form of [[expansion card]]s, directly to the system bus. This is commonly accomplished through some sort of standardized electrical connector, several of these forming the [[expansion bus]] or [[local bus]]. However, as the [[Computer performance|performance]] differences between the CPU and peripherals varies widely, some solution is generally needed to ensure that peripherals do not slow overall system performance. Many CPUs feature a second set of pins similar to those for communicating with memory, but able to operate at very different speeds and using different protocols (e.g. [[Universal asynchronous receiver-transmitter|UART]], [[Serial Peripheral Interface|SPI]], and [[Ethernet]]). Others use smart controllers to place the data directly in memory, a concept known as [[direct memory access]]. Most modern systems combine both solutions, where appropriate.}}

What CPUs have those pins, and what are they?  The list of examples includes UARTs and "Ethernet", but does this mean that the pins in question would be pins from an on-CPU-chip UART to go to a serial port and pins from an on-CPU-chip Ethernet adapter to go to a PHY or to an Ethernet network, or does it mean that they would be pins that connect either to a support chip, such as a [[northbridge (computing)|northbridge]], that's an I/O bus (ISA, EISA, PCI, PCIe, etc.) interface, or that directly connect to the I/O bus?

If it's the former, then the examples are examples of the types of pins.  However, if it's the latter, the UART and Ethernet examples are examples of peripherals that attach to the I/O bus to which the CPU pins connect.

(And the answer might depend on which type of CPU/SoC chip is being discussed.) [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 00:41, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

:There are no citations in this section. I would thin this material to remove unnecessary detail and ambiguity. ~[[User:Kvng|Kvng]] ([[User talk:Kvng|talk]]) 02:34, 30 July 2023 (UTC)