View source for Talk:ARM architecture family

{{Skip to talk}}
{{Talk header|noarchive=yes}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|
{{WikiProject Computing|importance=High|hardware=yes|hardware-importance=High}}
}}
{{Copied 
|from       = ARM architecture
|from_oldid = 433194912
|to         = List of ARM microprocessor cores
|to_diff    = prev
|to_oldid   = 434036010
|date       = 13 June, 2011
|small      = 
}}
{{Copied 
|from       = ARM architecture
|from_oldid = 435393219
|to         = List of applications of ARM cores
|to_diff    = prev
|to_oldid   = 435629733
|date       = 22 June, 2011
|small      = 
}}
{{annual readership|scale=log}}
{{archives
|auto=        short
|index=       /Archive index
|search=      yes
|bot=         MiszaBot I
|age=         720
}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav|noredlinks=y}}
|maxarchivesize = 31K
|counter = 4
|minthreadsleft = 4
|algo = old(720d)
|archive = Talk:ARM architecture family/Archive %(counter)d
}}
{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn
|target=Talk:ARM architecture family/Archive index
|mask=Talk:ARM architecture family/Archive <#>
|leading_zeros=0
|indexhere=yes
}}

== Arm is sentence case? ==
<!-- [[User:DoNotArchiveUntil]] 01:14, 27 September 2032 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1979860463}}
{{Resolved|All instances of ARM capitalized except for references to the company. [[Special:Contributions/120.159.128.133|120.159.128.133]] ([[User talk:120.159.128.133|talk]]) 14:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)}}
I've noticed that user [[User:JBMagination]] has changed all references to "ARM" in this article to sentence-case "Arm", citing company trademark policy. Doesn't this violate [[MOS:TM]], as most sources still use Arm capitalized as "ARM"? <span style="border:1px solid #445A38;padding:1px;">[[User:ViperSnake151|<span style="color:#8f5902">ViperSnake151</span>]] [[User_talk:ViperSnake151|<span style="color:#fff;background:#88A976;">&nbsp;Talk&nbsp;</span>]] </span> 21:45, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
:If it is, I will gladly revert it. [[User:JBMagination|JBMagination]] ([[User talk:JBMagination|talk]]) 21:49, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
::Please at least revert the names of the chips -- the CPU was never called the 'Arm1' but the ARM1, etc. [[User:MatthewWilcox|MatthewWilcox]] ([[User talk:MatthewWilcox|talk]]) 12:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
:{{Reply to|ViperSnake151}} Are you thinking of [[MOS:TMCAPS]], which says
:{{quote|For trademarks that are given in mixed or non-capitalization by their owners (such as [[Adidas|{{!xt|adidas}}]]), follow the formatting and capitalization used by [[WP:Identifying and using independent sources|independent]] reliable sources.}}
:Note, though, that Arm isn't using mixed capitalization (if by that they mean [[camel case]] or stuff such as eBay and iPod) or non-capitalization, as they're capitalizing it proper-noun-style.
:(This is a bit like Sun Microsystems, where the "Sun" originally came from the [[Stanford University Network]], for which the original [[SUN workstation]] was designed, but - as I suspect I've said about a trillion times in USENET posts :-) - they were "Sun Microsystems", not "Stanford University Network Microsystems".  The change from "ARM" to "Arm" didn't happen when the company was created, so it's not ''exactly'' the same, but it might be a bit similar.) [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 22:49, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

* Re: [[MOS:TMCAPS]] ("follow the formatting and capitalization used by independent reliable sources"}. Arduino[https://store.arduino.cc/usa/due][https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Software] and Raspberry Pi[https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/updated-debian-arch-linux-arm-images/][https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/specifications/]  use ARM. Also see [https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/21/21298607/first-arm-mac-macbook-pro-imac-ming-chi-kuo-wwdc-2020][https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jun/22/apple-ditches-intel-for-arm-processors-in-big-sur-computers][https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/apple-plans-to-announce-arm-transition-for-all-macs-at-wwdc-2020/][https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/12/ten-years-of-apple-technology-shifts-made-the-arm-mac-possible][https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2020/06/13/apple-mac-macos-macbook-arm-intel-danger-problem-risk-reward/][https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/09/apple-could-reportedly-announce-mac-shift-to-its-own-arm-based-chips-this-month/][https://www.computerworld.com/article/3562068/wwdc-2020-apple-to-announce-move-to-arm-powered-macs.html][https://www.pcgamer.com/if-apple-shifts-to-arm-processors-what-does-that-say-about-intels-next-gen-cpus/][https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/arm-macbook-reason-to-upgrade][https://www.extremetech.com/computing/311529-a-competitive-apple-arm-core-could-finally-break-x86s-long-computing-monopoly][https://www.macworld.com/article/3561765/apple-transition-to-its-own-processors.html] --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 02:18, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

::I'm not sure about this change, but I think that ARM should be retained ''at least'' in the history section to reflect the way it was written at that time. And what is used in official documents? (For instance, in France, the public institute INRIA has been deacronymized to Inria for the communication, but this has not been changed in legal texts yet.) [[User:Vincent Lefèvre|Vincent Lefèvre]] ([[User talk:Vincent Lefèvre|talk]]) 09:33, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

* '''Please revert'''.  If there is a stylisation change ''going forward'', then this can be reflected in the article, if/when the usage reaches wide-scale acceptance, ie. in the mainstream press.  …The historical naming should probably remain as it has for the last ~35 years, since that is what is being reported/summarised in the majority of the article.  TL;DR: ideally '''ARM1'''; or as an imperfect compromise, formatted as '''{{smallcaps|Arm1}}''' could also work.  —[[User:Sladen|Sladen]] ([[User talk:Sladen|talk]]) 13:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

* Someone has gone through with a machete changing ARM to Arm - presumably what is referred to in this section. This includes all the historical references. The Acorn RISC Machine architecture was "ARM" not "Arm". There was never an "Arm610 microprocessor". etc. etc. '''Almost none''' of the usages of "Arm" in this article make any sense whatsoever. This article is not about the company which has renamed itself, and they cannot rewrite history. You'll note that even Arm themselves use "Arm" for the company and "ARM" for the architecture and the chips - e.g. https://developer.arm.com/documentation/den0024/a/armv8-a-architecture-and-processors/armv8-a - making these Wikipedia changes even more nonsensical --[[User:Davidcx|Davidcx]] ([[User talk:Davidcx|talk]]) 20:37, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Apart from anything else discussed just above, I would suggest altering the phrase "usually written as such today' to "often still written as such" [[User:NotesTracker|NotesTracker]] ([[User talk:NotesTracker|talk]]) 12:15, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

== Ironically ARM make AMD's x86 insecure? ==

I've not yet read all the [https://safefirmware.com/amdflaws_whitepaper.pdf security paper saying: "The AMD Secure Processor, the gatekeeper responsible for the security of AMD processors, contains critical vulnerabilities."] Note the [[AMD Platform Security Processor]] (I assume the same thing), built into their x86 CPUs, is ARM with TrustZone.

It's not clear that the ARM core and/or TrustZone (never looked to closely at it) is to blame and most reporting doesn't mention ARM but rather [https://hothardware.com/news/amd-confirms-it-will-not-be-opensourcing-epycs-platform-security-processor-code the non-open source code it runs]. It seems it is to blame, possibly not the core running it. Be aware of that before blaming ARM here on this page; this is just FYI, and for discussion here.

Other links maybe helpful (first one where I discovered this before looking up the others):

https://www.wired.com/story/amd-backdoor-cts-labs-backlash/

https://hothardware.com/news/amd-processors-and-chipsets-ryzenfall-chimera-fallout-security-flaws

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/security [[User:Comp.arch|comp.arch]] ([[User talk:Comp.arch|talk]])

== No instruction set? ==

'''ARM instruction set''' redirects here. Wouldn't it be better to list the instructions there? This page doesn't list the instructions, and I am looking for them, so I would greatly appreciate it. [[User:Joao003|Joao003]] ([[User talk:Joao003|talk]]) 17:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
:It would be better not to list instructions on Wikipedia, at least for instruction sets with lots of instructions.  I'm not sure whether [[x86 instruction listings]] should exist, for example.
:If you want ARM instructions, go to https://developer.arm.com/architectures and look through the search results for what you want. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 19:31, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

== "No support for unaligned memory accesses in the original version of the architecture" ==

Is this true? Per the ARM2 data sheet (emphasis added): "A word load (LDR) should generate a word aligned address. '''An address offset from a word boundary will cause the data to be rotated into the register so that the addressed byte occupies bits 0 to 7'''. External hardware could perform a double access to memory to allow non-aligned word loads"

To me that doesn't sounds like "no support" as this article currently claims; it clearly farms the stuff of doing two 32-bit accesses and combining parts of each to external hardware but appears to offer a helping hand should the system be set up to do that — the external bus merely needs to gate each of the four bytes to ensure it presents each from the correct access, it doesn't need to rotate them into place. 

I'd call this negligible support, but not "no support". [[Special:Contributions/96.234.17.8|96.234.17.8]] ([[User talk:96.234.17.8|talk]]) 18:19, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
:I agree. That's more a special behavior than no support. I'm wondering whether this was exploited in practice. — [[User:Vincent Lefèvre|Vincent Lefèvre]] ([[User talk:Vincent Lefèvre|talk]]) 02:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

== "ARM" and "Arm" ==

I found that "ARM" has changed its name to "Arm", and now the documentation almost uses "Arm"

[[Arm Holdings#Name]]

For example document: https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ddi0487/ka#:~:text=Arm%20Architecture%20Reference%20Manual%20for%20A-profile%20architecture.%20For%20a%20list [[User:ShiinaKaze|ShiinaKaze]] ([[User talk:ShiinaKaze|talk]]) 12:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
:AFAIK, this is not new. See the discussion [[#Arm is sentence case?]] above. — [[User:Vincent Lefèvre|Vincent Lefèvre]] ([[User talk:Vincent Lefèvre|talk]]) 14:24, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

== ARMv9.6-R and ARMv9.6-M ==

Research the following and if you find any details about the following, please include them with their sources: 


1) ARMv9.6-M 

2) ARMv9.6-R  [[Special:Contributions/78.190.164.190|78.190.164.190]] ([[User talk:78.190.164.190|talk]]) 15:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
:I researched it and found that Arm have, apparently, never announced ''any'' ARMv9-M or ARMv9-R architectures, much less a 9.6 version; there is, of course, no obligation whatsoever for Arm to offer, for every ARMv9.x-A version, a corresponding ARMv9.x-R or ARMv9.x-M version, so the lack of ARMv9.6-M or ARMv9.6-R is not particularly surprising. Thus, there are no details to include, other than, at most, their non-existence. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 08:08, 5 February 2025 (UTC)