View source for Talk:2003 California gubernatorial recall election

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==Untitled==
I have already voted (absentee) and the article seems to miss the reason that many of my friends will also vote to remove Gray Davis as Governor. It is not about taxes, although our taxes have become a major deterrent to job creation, nor is it a result of the overall state of the California economy. Rather it is about perceived blatant abuse of office to the point where both Rebublicans and Democrats (I am a registered Libertarian) seem to feel sullied. Whether it is because of the money which flowed in from Indian gaming groups, the dumping of previously banned pollutants in San Francisco Bay, or the pandering to Labor  bosses by moves such as pay raises for Prison guards or establishing a Union Shop in the California State University system. we believe that our government is for sale to the highest bidder. When it comes to selecting a replacement for Gray Davis you must admit we have a wonderful range to choose from!  How about the Trekkie?

I changed the phrase "governor's mansion at stake" to "governor's office at stake", since the literal mansion has stood unoccupied since Jerry Brown declined to move into it in 1975.  Also changed "had large control of" to "had enormous influence over" in the intro about Progressivism. 

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Now that this article exists I think that much of the text in Arnold's and Gray's articles about the recall can be moved here and replaced by summaries. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 22:20, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

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The California SoS has stated a official list of candidates should be available on 13 Aug. Once this list is posted, I intend to Wiki it here...Any comments?
--[[User:Hoshie|hoshie]]

::There may be several hundred candidates.  [[User:RickK|RickK]], who thinks he's going to vote for [[Gary Coleman]]. :)

:Just put the whole list at [[List of 2003 California recall candidates]], but keep a short list of the top/most notable candidates here (yes, that includes Gary Coleman). --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 21:24, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)

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I have sought in vain for some kind of simple, coherent explanation of how this will actually be voted.  News coverage around here focuses mostly on the rarity of the procedure and amused comments on the number and calibre of candidates.  

How exactly will it be voted?  There are apparently multiple Republican opponents, a few Democrats, and quite a few unclassified candidates.  Is Gov. Davis out if any one candidate draws more votes than he gets?  or if his three hundred opponents collectively get more votes?  Is there any procedure for a runoff?  If so, who becomes governor in the interim?  Or does the top vote getter in the October election become governor?  

Where is [[Emperor Norton]] when you need him? -- [[User:Ihcoyc|IHCOYC]] 14:59, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)

:I am not an elections expert, but this is my impression from the news coverage:

:First, you vote for or against the recall.

:Secondly, you vote for one of the replacement candidates (which does not include Gov. Davis). You can vote for a candidate whether or not you vote for the recall. The candidates are running as individuals, not as party members.

:If the recall passes (simple majority? of votes for/against the recall), the replacement candidate with the most votes (plurality of votes for replacement candidates) becomes the new governor. If the recall doesn't pass, Davis serves out his term. There are no runoffs. --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 15:07, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)

::Thanks.  It looks like someone added the information since the last time I looked at the article.  The mechanics have not been in any of the local papers that I can recall, and I was curious as to how it worked. -- [[User:Ihcoyc|IHCOYC]]

:::According to [[MSNBC]]: '' Davis will lose if he gets 49.9 percent or less on Oct. 7.'' [http://www.msnbc.com/news/950630.asp] So, If my thinking is correct, Davis needs 50.1% of voters to vote NO on question #1 to stay in office. 

:::As to question #2, [[CNN]] says: '' if voters agree to recall Democratic Gov. Gray Davis -- a candidate needs only a simple plurality of votes.'' [http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/10/calif.recall/index.html] If my thinking is correct on question #2, a replacement candidate could win with 25% or less, depending on turnout. --[[User:Hoshie|hoshie]]

::::Technically, if a plurality is all that is needed, and there are more than 100 candidates, it is possible (though unlikely) that the winner may have fewer than 1% of the votes.  Of course, having this many candidates increases the likelihood of ties as well.  --- [[User:Ihcoyc|IHCOYC]]

:::::So someone could be elected on 1) fewer votes than it took to elect Davis and 2) fewer votes than it takes to throw him out.  .... Yeah, that makes sense.  At least there's no need to worry about hanging chads.  [[User:Koyaanis Qatsi|Koyaanis Qatsi]] 03:30, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

::::::Actually, there '''''is''''' hanging chad potential.  Davis tried to get the election delayed on the basis of the fact that some counties will not have updated to more modern systems of voting by the time of the election, but this appeal was denied. So punch cards will be used, and we may get chad recounts after all! -- [[User:Someone else|Someone else]] 03:42, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)~

:::::::Excellent.  Maybe it's not too late to get a Bush involved ... Maybe Neil this time; he hasn't been doing much since the S&L scandal.  ;-)  [[User:Koyaanis Qatsi|Koyaanis Qatsi]] 03:43, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

::::::::Saying '49.9% or less' seems to me an odd way to phrase it unless you wanted imply that he could get a minority of the vote and stay on. [[Merric]]

<rant>My Gawd! As an American I'm embarrassed by our "democratic" system of government. First Bush won even though more people voted for Gore and now it looks like some nit-wit with possibly less than 10% of the vote will be the next governor of the largest and most powerful state in the Union. This says nothing of our choices, which include; Arnold "The Terminator" Schwarzenegger, Garry "What you talk'n about Willis!" Coleman, Leo "Smash-o-matic" Gallagher, "Billboard babe" Angelyne, and my favorite, Larry "The smut peddler" Flynt. Whose next? These are sad times for the USA.... Altough I'll probably end-up voting for the [[Running Man]] just to oust Davis (whom I despise). </rant>--[[User:Maveric149|mav]]

:Oh, come now. How, you ask, could a gubernatorial contest get any better? Here's how: [[Media:Arnold.jpg]] :) -- [[User:Someone else|Someone else]] 07:52, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

::LOL. He's got the gay vote (he is pro-gay rights too, BTW). --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 08:13, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

:::He may [http://dieselsweeties.com/archive.php?s=749 lose the robot vote], though. ;) --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 08:31, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

::::In a Fox News Network interview on 27 August 2003, Arnold (stating he supported domestic partnerships but not gay marriages) seems to have made the amusing mis-statement that he believes "homosexual marriage should be between a man and a woman".   At least I think that's what I heard... -- [[User:Someone else|Someone else]] 19:28, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)  (Confirmed, more or less: he actually said "Gay marriage should be between a man and a woman."  But it looks like no one's jumping on it.  Imagine if Bush had said this during a campaign! -- [[User:Someone else|Someone else]] 06:59, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC))
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[[Travis Kalanick]] is not on the list. -- [[User:213.73.161.245|213.73.161.245]] 00:12, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)

----

I removed the following candidates from the notables list: 

Georgy Russell
Audie Bock
Angelyne
Gallagher

The reason they were not removed is that have no recieved coverage in the mainstream news. --[[User:Hoshie|hoshie]]

:Gallagher and Angelyne are both ''very'' notable, so they were put back in. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]]

::CA news is giving plenty of coverage to Coleman, Gallagher, and even Angelyne as candidates. I also say keep them in. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]]

==inauguration photos==

Security at the event was extreme so I wasn't able to get any photos of Arnold, but these other ones may be useful. However, I'm at work right now and don't have the software needed to crop and resize these images. If somebody else can do this before I get home then that would be great. Otherwise I'll get to it latter tonight. [[:Image:Newsvans at Schwarzenegger inauguration_.JPG]], [[:Image:Arnold Schwarzenegger inauguration-crowd.jpg]], [[:Image:Arnold Schwarzenegger sexual harassment protestors.JPG]]. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 21:31, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

:Done; 300 and 750 px wide images of each; check my contribution list for filenames. - [[User:Hephaestos|Hephaestos]] 21:57, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

: I had cropped them [from note on Arnold Schwarzenegger talk]; rv if not correct (I didn't know Hephaestos was croppin' them too); mabey links on the all the img desc pg could be place in? [[User:Reddi|JDR]]

:Thanks! Here are the photos for anybody to place in this article: 

<div style="float:right;margin-left:0.5em;text-align:center">
[[Image:Newsvans at Schwarzenegger inauguration300.jpg]]<br/>
<small>''Newsvans at Schwarzenegger inauguration''</small><br/>
[[media:Newsvans at Schwarzenegger inauguration750.jpg|larger image]]
</div><br clear="all">

<div style="float:right;margin-left:0.5em;text-align:center">
[[Image:Arnold Schwarzenegger sexual harassment protestors300.jpg]]<br/>
<small>''Sexual harassment protestors''</small><br/>
[[media:Arnold Schwarzenegger sexual harassment protestors750.jpg|larger image]]
</div><br clear="all">

<div style="float:right;margin-left:0.5em;text-align:center">
[[Image:Arnold Schwarzenegger inauguration-crowd300.jpg]]<br/>
<small>''Crowd watching Schwarzenegger inauguration''</small><br/> 
[[media:Arnold Schwarzenegger inauguration-crowd750.jpg|larger image]]
</div><br clear="all">

--[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 22:23, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Opps! I forgot I even took this one. [[:Image:California Secretary of State building on October 7, 2003.jpg]]. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]]

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Tom McClintock is referred to as 'state Senator', 'State Senator', and 'state senator'. I'm not sure based on [[Wikipedia:Typo/capitalization]] whether it should be 'state senator' or 'state Senator', but it should be consistent.
This page is listed in [[Wikipedia:Typo/capitalization-21]]. The relevant entry should be removed once the capitalization is fixed.
[[User:Adjusting|Adjusting]]


==Recall alphabet==
Just for reference: R, W, Q, O, J, M, V, A, H, B, S, G, Z, X, N, T, C, I, E, K, U, P, D, Y, F, L. [http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/14/calif.recall/]. [[User:Zscout370|Zscout370]] [[User_talk:Zscout370|(Sound Off)]] 02:10, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

==John and Ken==

Their role in this event needs to be touched on, especially the stories they undcovered on Gray "Gumby" Davis and tofu berry shakes...

==Merger of Results into main page==

Given the length of the respective pages, I think that the suggested merge is impractical.  Since it has been proposed for months without comment, I am [[WP:BB|boldly]] removing the tags.  [[User:Eluchil404|Eluchil404]] 21:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

==No mention of "Car Tax"==

One major issue that I recall from the recall campaign was the so-called "car tax", which isn't mentioned in this article.  California has a vehicle license fee (VLF) which is charged annually to every owner of a California-registered motor vehicle.  As of 2003, this fee was by law equal to 2% of the vehicle's market value (according to a statutory depreciation scale), but legislative action since 1998 had gradually reduced the rate to 0.65%, one-third of its original amount.  I believe it was described as a "temporary" but indefinite reduction.  In 2003, with the budget now very tight, Governor Davis, by executive order, reinstated the 2% rate, effectively tripling the "car tax", as it started to be called by opponents.  This was not only an unpopular move but also one of controversial legality, in light of California's constitutional requirement that tax increases be approved by a 2/3 vote of the legislature.  There was some question as to whether this applied to ending the "temporary" reduction, or whether the VLF should be considered a tax.  In any event, much was made of this move by Governor Davis's opponents in the recall campaign, and it may have significantly contributed to the success of the recall.  In fact, upon assuming office, one of Governor Schwarzenegger's first moves was to cancel the VLF increase and order refunds issued to those who had paid the higher rate. [[Special:Contributions/132.239.145.181|132.239.145.181]] ([[User talk:132.239.145.181|talk]]) 21:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

* I agree, the Car Tax should definitely be in there. That was a huge issue in ads and fueled opposition to Davis. [[User:Ryratt|Ryratt]] ([[User talk:Ryratt|talk]]) 19:46, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

==Fair use rationale for Image:Davis recall petition.pdf==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
'''[[:Image:Davis recall petition.pdf]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].

Please go to [[:Image:Davis recall petition.pdf|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline |fair use rationale]]. Using one of the templates at [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline]] is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Missing rationale2 -->

[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] ([[User talk:BetacommandBot|talk]]) 21:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

==Fair use rationale for Image:Davis-recall-petition.jpg==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
'''[[:Image:Davis-recall-petition.jpg]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].

Please go to [[:Image:Davis-recall-petition.jpg|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline |fair use rationale]]. Using one of the templates at [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline]] is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Missing rationale2 -->

[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] ([[User talk:BetacommandBot|talk]]) 21:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

==Grammar pedantry==

This is really a pretty minor point in the grand scheme of things, but me and [[User:Blindman shady|Blindman shady]] seem to disagree on the grammar of the sentence: 

"California is one of only 15 states that allow[s] recalls."

To wit, whether the "s" should be there or not. Blindman shady argues that the verb "allows" should agree with "California" (so be singular), whereas I believe the verb should agree with "15 states," and so be plural. Now, "that allow[s] recalls" is a restrictive clause which could in principle modify either "California" or "15 states"; the sentence is grammatically correct either way, although the placement of the clause makes it more natural, to my mind, to read it as modifying "15 states." More significantly, though, the different constructions have different meanings. If the clause modifies "California," the sentence would be equivalent to "There are only 15 states, and California is one that allows recalls." This doesn't seem right to me, because this sentence doesn't explain the relevance of the 15 states. Hence my preference for my version (without the "s"), which is equivalent to "There are only 15 states that allow recalls, and California is one." I'd be interested in people's thoughts on this.[[User:VoluntarySlave|VoluntarySlave]] ([[User talk:VoluntarySlave|talk]]) 19:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
:'''but me and [[User:Blindman shady|Blindman shady]] seem'''
Blindman shady and I*... had to do it XD<br/>'''[[User:Blindman shady|<span style="color:red;">Blind</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Blindman shady|<span style="color:yellow;">man</span>]] [[User talk:Blindman shady|<span style="color:orange;">shady</span>]]''' 01:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:The one without the "s" is grammatically correct. Restrictive clauses always follow the noun they modify in order to be clear. Thus, the way the sentence is currently written, the clause modifies "states" and must take the plural form of the verb for number agreement. In order for the clause to modify "California," the sentence would have to be recast as follows: "California, which allows recalls, is one of only 15 states to do so." --[[User:CrazyLegsKC|<span style="color:blue;">Crazy</span>]][[User talk:CrazyLegsKC|<span style="color:red;">Legs</span>]][[Special:Contributions/CrazyLegsKC|<span style="color:green;">KC</span>]] 14:14, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

==Write-in candidates with zero votes==

A [[write-in candidate]] is a candidate whose name is ''not'' on the ballot. On the table of final results, there are five names listed as write-ins with ''zero'' votes. If they were not on the ballot and ''nobody'' voted for them, then why are they listed? In fact, why do we bother listing 170 people in the table when only four of them even got one percent of the vote and only 12 with one-tenth of one percent? Yes, Wikipedia is to be comprehensive, but there is a link to the complete by-county results if someone wants to know that. [[User:Reywas92|<span style="color:#1EC112; font-size:medium;">Reywas92</span>]][[User talk:Reywas92|<sup style="color:#45E03A;">'''Talk'''</sup>]] 22:32, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
:It's my understanding that write-in candidates had to register as such. Why someone would bother to register as a write-in candidate and then not bother to ask anyone to vote for him or her, or even vote himself or herself, is a good question, however. [[User:Qqqqqq|Qqqqqq]] ([[User talk:Qqqqqq|talk]]) 22:49, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
: [http://www.calvoter.org/voter/faq.html#q24 California requires write-in candidates to register], so the write-in candidates who got no votes appear in the official election results (see note 8). [[User:VoluntarySlave|VoluntarySlave]] ([[User talk:VoluntarySlave|talk]]) 23:15, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
why is there no mention of "Lester Terry Tate Speight"? http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/12/business/the-media-business-advertising-the-reebok-campaign-joins-the-california-campaign.html  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/174.95.22.155|174.95.22.155]] ([[User talk:174.95.22.155|talk]]) 13:25, 15 July 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Move discussion in progress==
There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at [[Talk:Wisconsin gubernatorial recall election, 2012#Requested move |Talk:Wisconsin gubernatorial recall election, 2012 - Requested move]] and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Wisconsin gubernatorial recall election, 2012 crosspost --> —[[User:RM bot|RM bot]] 21:04, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

== Results table ==

I have edited the results table at the end of this article to only include candidates who received 1.00% or greater of the popular vote. I did this because, with well over 100 candidates included, the table was bulky and incomprehensible. While we should aspire to be as comprehensive as possible, listing over 100 names who received a minimal portion of the popular vote (many of the candidates did not even win a tenth of a percent, and at least half a dozen received only one vote, presumably their own) seems a bit overkill. As such, I have reduced the table to include only the five candidates who won at least 1.00% of the vote, and condensed the remainder into a single "other" row. 

If anyone has a reason to include a greater number of candidates, please let me know. [[User:Nathaniel Greene|Nathaniel Greene]] ([[User talk:Nathaniel Greene|talk]]) 21:01, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
:This is an online encyclopedia that should preserve data. Room on a piece of paper is not an issue. Perhaps we can "condense" by having a table with a hide/show option. [[User:Victor Victoria|Victor Victoria]] ([[User talk:Victor Victoria|talk]]) 17:39, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== Contradiction in article: can Davis run again? ==

In the lede to the article, it says: "Davis was ineligible to run for a third term due to term limits after the recall election." But then in the first section, it says: "As Davis's recall transpired before he had served half of his term as Governor, he remains eligible to serve another term, should he win a future election for the California Governor post." Neither is cited. Which is correct? Alternately, both sentences could be removed, as Davis's political career was destroyed by the recall and the chance of him running again is remote. --[[User:Jfruh|Jfruh]] ([[User talk:Jfruh|talk]]) 22:23, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

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== Link to Wikipedia User Page? ==

If a gubernatorial candidate is also a Wikipedia editor can their name be linked to their user page? If so, what is the best way to do that? [[User:Jasonagastrich|Jasonagastrich]] ([[User talk:Jasonagastrich|talk]]) 06:10, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

::User pages are not encyclopedic articles, and this would confuse readers, and cross the user pages with the encyclopedic articles. So, from my judgement, I'd give a firm "no". [[User:SecretName101|SecretName101]] ([[User talk:SecretName101|talk]]) 07:22, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

==A mess==
The two successive "background" sections seem to duplicate each other. The petition and candidates are introduced, then introduced again in a successive section. [[User:Possibly|Possibly]] ([[User talk:Possibly|talk]]) 04:52, 2 February 2021 (UTC)