Wiki143:Articles for deletion/Sexual transmutation

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. I'll be moving it, per HG. fuddlemark (befuddle me!) 15:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Sexual transmutation

unsourced original research. Was prodded as such, but tag was removed. -999 (Talk) 15:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per my nom. -999 (Talk) 15:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Agree with the OR. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to look into other articles tied into this Samael Aun Weor figure. It looks a bit like propaganda OR. 205.157.110.11 15:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. 999, you need only vote once. SynergeticMaggot 16:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Sounds kooky to me, but external links are provided and google yields plenty of sites discussing this (many, but not all in the context of this Samael Aun Weor character). Scorpiondollprincess 19:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Ekajati 21:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep for now. I am concerned that this process is bypassing some Wikipedia norms; so far this article smells like a drive-by deletion:
  • The author, Paul Stone has never been notified of the AfD -- that's supposed to be part of the process.
  • There has been no prior discussion of any article flaws on the talk page.
  • 999 identified possible copyright issues in a previous edit -- is that still a concern? If so, what are the specifics?
  • 999 has also just nominated another article associated with Paul Stone, Gnostic Movement, for deletion, again without any involvement in editing the article or commenting on the talk page. Coincidence? See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gnostic Movement
  • Alternatives to deletion recommended in "Before nominating an AfD" have not been followed -- no attempts made by 999 to improve the article first. For starters, 999 could put {{fact}} tags on the statements not supported by the external links.--A. B. 04:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. I'm going to nitpick here....Notifying a page's creator that the article is nom for AfD is not necessarily "part of the process," although it's considered a good thing to do. Also, the "Before nominating an AfD" section generally has suggestions, not guidelines that must be followed (most start out like "Consider adding," "Consider making," etc). I can say that I don't always do any of these things when nominating. And in fact, oftentimes if an article seems like an obvious candidate for AfD, I'll track down the author's other contributions to see if other pages are also obvious candidates (this isn't uncommon for vanity pages, for example). My point being that User:999 wasn't necessarily acting in bad faith in nominating this, and it's not fair to him/her to assume that s/he was (WP:AGF). -- H·G (^words/_works) 06:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

You make some very good points. At the same time, shouldn't 999 in turn be applying WP:AGF to Paul Stone? (By the way, I never had any contact with the participants or interest in the topic before this AfD -- "I don't have a dog in this fight").--A. B. 08:39, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

If he wasn't, then yes, he certainly should be. I'll assume (and hope) for now that he was, until I see an indication otherwise. To be sure, he could have done more--notifying Paul Stone, for example--but I don't know if he didn't because of a bad faith assumption or what. (And I'll make the same caveat as you did: I've had no previous interaction with any of the key participants in this AfD, including A. B., and I have no personal interest vested in this.) -- H·G (^words/_works) 01:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

• Move to Sexual sublimation, which appears to be the more widely-used term if Google and Amazon are any indication. (Many if not most of the Ghits for "...transmutation" were pornographic, while those for "...sublimation" seemed much more along the lines of this article.) I'm convinced that it's not a new term and is known in certain fields. -- H·G (^words/_works) 06:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. I removed the first tag placed by User:999 when I shortened the article and placed two independent sources as external links that verify the content. Therefore this is not unsourced or original research. The topic of sexual sublimation is found in many books of occultism, such The Mystical Quabbalah by Dion Fortune and The Dayspring of Youth by Master Moria, not to mention works by Samael Aun Weor, and Arnoldo Krumm-Heller. I plan on adding these sources later. I can also represent sources from Swami Sivananda, Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami, the Dalai Lama, etc., etc. --Paul Stone 23:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per links and Ghits Antares33712 20:55, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
• keep please the topic is notable and in many books Yuckfoo 18:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.