Talk:Panhard AML

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I think there were 2 of these in The Living Daylights. there were also 2 VABs in it Dudtz 8/20/05 2:04 PM EST

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 07:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

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Rifled or smoothbore?

This article claims (unsourced) that the DEFA D921 gun is rifled. All other sources claim it to be a smoothbore. This misnomer has now spread (repeatedly) to tank gun. Despite this, this article describes it as firing fin-stabilised rounds. Can anyone explain how a rifled tank gun is firing fin stabilised rounds? A really slippy slipping ring, like HEAT rounds? Andy Dingley (talk) 19:48, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Howzit Template:U,

As far as I can tell, the gun barrels of the DEFA D921/GIAT CN-90F1 used on the Panhard AML-90 (as well as on the EBR and EE-9 Cascavel Mk II) have rifling, it's just extremely shallow. In this respect the D921 resembles the 105 mm Modèle F1 used on the AMX-30, which was designed around roughly the same time period.

Nearly smoothbore guns with shallow rifling - and a comparatively small number of grooves - firing spin-stabilised projectiles were an unusual postwar French phenomenon. The system is explained well by Richard Ogorkiewicz in his pamphlet entitled AMX-30 Battle Tank like so:

"The shaped charge is mounted in ball bearings. In this way the outer body of the projectile can be allowed to spin without causing the shaped charge to rotate at more than 20 to 30 revolutions per minute. At this rotational speed the shaped charge does not lose any of its armour-piercing performance, which is the drawback of spin-stabilized projectiles - their spin being imparted by the rifling of the guns from which they are fired. On the other hand the fact that the outer body is spinning means that the projectile retains a high degree of accuracy. It is the lack of spin in the alternative, fin-stabilized projectiles fired from smooth bores that reduces their accuracy, particularly at long range. Thus the Obus G has the best of both worlds: accuracy because the outer projectile spins; high armour-piercing performance because the shaped charge doesn't spin to any significant extent."

Another Ogorkiewicz book, the tome entitled Technology of Tanks Volume One by Jane's, states:

"The guns produced in France by EFAB have also had a calibre of 90mm, like their Mecar forerunner, and shallow splines with a very slow twist to impart a low rate of spin to the projectiles, sufficient only to reduce the effect of any minor asymmetries. However, the fin-stabilised projectiles of the EFAB guns differ from the mortar bomb shape of the Mecar projectiles in being shorter by virtue of having fins as a direct extension of the projectile instead of on a tail boom."

On another note a few years ago I was given an operating manual for the AML-90 which includes diagrams of the gun assembly and maintenance procedures. I'll have to see if I can dig it up and look for that information being reiterated there. If so, I'll be sure to post an image here and cite it in the text, too. Thanks! --Katangais (talk) 22:08, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

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Eland does not belong in the list of operators

The Eland armoured car is covered as an entirely separate vehicle in both this article and a wide variety of academic sources, namely Panhard Armoured Car: 1961 onwards, by Dunstan (which has separate technical sections for the AML and Eland). Per the footnote at the beginning of the "Operators" section, operators of the Eland are well-covered under the titular article and should not be added to the list of current AML operators. Katangais (talk) 18:18, 6 February 2025 (UTC)