Wiki143:Articles for deletion/Chinese Four Great Inventions
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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep. 5 Keep votes, 3 Delete votes, 3 merge votes, 2 redirect votes. Article is kept, but no consensus between merging and redirect. Anyone can be bold and merge and/or redirect the article themselves. -- AllyUnion (talk) 10:29, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Actually, 2 delete votes. JamesBurns is a newbie... with 75% or more VFD votes. Interesting. -- AllyUnion (talk) 14:52, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Chinese Four Great Inventions
The information is definitely worthy of inclusion, but not on its own page. Merge with China Science and technology in China and delete. Katefan0 05:04, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC) (Changed merge page Katefan0 19:14, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC))
- If you want to do a merge, just be bold and do the merge. Don't invoke VFD. Deletion is not the final step in a merger. Uncle G 05:20, 2005 Feb 13 (UTC)
- China's achievements can be politically charged, as tied up as they are with national pride, I thought it best to put it up to consensus. But thanks for the tip, I appreciate it. Katefan0 05:37, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
- Merge with China, no redirect. Megan1967 06:36, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete, not an encyclopedic classification. Wyss 11:24, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. I think the use of this term seems to be incredibly common in the Chinese media (both sides of the Taiwan straits) for whatever reasons - a Google search for the Chinese term would show up 179,000 pages, see here) and , there is actually an equivalent article of the exact same name ("Four Great Inventions") in the Chinese Wikipedia see here in Chinese. --JuntungWu 18:06, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC). Note that I am not saying this is a strong keep and I would support a merge somewhere as well. JuntungWu 18:18, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete. This is the English Wikipedia, and even if this phrase is common and notable in Chinese, that doesn't mean that is common or notable in English, and deserving of an article. The content (that is, the fact that these four inventions originated in China) is of course important; but the inventions are more appropriately included elsewhere, such as China. --BM 21:10, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep I doubt that this should be merged into China. Perhaps into a history of Chinese technology if there was one. Wincoote 21:18, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep and cleanup/expand. It sounds to me like this is a culturally significant claim, frequently repeated by Chinese ethnic or cultural advocates. The current stub has some value in making a more comprehensive article about the claim. -- Smerdis of Tlön 15:51, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I think the point of my VfD request is being missed. Of course the information is valuable, but this is not the proper place for it. It should be included elsewhere, like China or the articles on the inventions themselves. Katefan0 16:19, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not paper. I tend to believe that this page should remain because it should ultimately be about something not entirely comprehended in China or History of China: the fact that Chinese ethnic or cultural advocates have generated a slogan, apparently fairly familiar among Chinese speakers, that these four inventions are great Chinese inventions. There seems to be some significant investment of effort in publicising this claim among Sinophones worldwide. If so, the phenomenon itself is significant and worthy of its own article. -- Smerdis of Tlön 17:02, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I see your point and in some ways agree with it, but I'm still not sure that this is the proper venue to air it out. It seems to me, based on your thoughts, that a more proper article could be created that would talk about this cultural phenomenon in a more big-picture way -- not only as it relates to these four inventions; something like China's Public Image or China's National Pride. The Chinese are obviously very concerned with their public image and there are multiple examples that could be explored (their space program is one). But of course that would require a creation effort from someone well-versed in the issue, which I am not. And as the article stands now, it's fairly useless. Katefan0 17:11, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
- PS — Actually, we do already have Science and technology in China; the article is a dog's breakfast; it contains large portions of what looks to be an unwikified PRC press release. There is a brief section on History of Science and Technology in China, which should be perhaps fronted, and the business about PRC government sponsorship of research and education heavily edited, wikified, and pared down, assuming it is not a copyvio. Off to cleanup now. AAR, if the consensus is not to have a separate article on the campaign, this would seem to be the place to merge and redirect this. -- Smerdis of Tlön 17:16, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I see your point and in some ways agree with it, but I'm still not sure that this is the proper venue to air it out. It seems to me, based on your thoughts, that a more proper article could be created that would talk about this cultural phenomenon in a more big-picture way -- not only as it relates to these four inventions; something like China's Public Image or China's National Pride. The Chinese are obviously very concerned with their public image and there are multiple examples that could be explored (their space program is one). But of course that would require a creation effort from someone well-versed in the issue, which I am not. And as the article stands now, it's fairly useless. Katefan0 17:11, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not paper. I tend to believe that this page should remain because it should ultimately be about something not entirely comprehended in China or History of China: the fact that Chinese ethnic or cultural advocates have generated a slogan, apparently fairly familiar among Chinese speakers, that these four inventions are great Chinese inventions. There seems to be some significant investment of effort in publicising this claim among Sinophones worldwide. If so, the phenomenon itself is significant and worthy of its own article. -- Smerdis of Tlön 17:02, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I think the point of my VfD request is being missed. Of course the information is valuable, but this is not the proper place for it. It should be included elsewhere, like China or the articles on the inventions themselves. Katefan0 16:19, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
- Keep this article and reorganise together with Science and technology in China, with the latter rename as [[Science and technology in mainland China]] or [[..in mainland China after 1949]]. — Instantnood 18:05, Feb 14 2005 (UTC)
- Keep and improve, possibly rename. Important concept to the Chinese. Kappa 23:23, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Redirect to Science and technology in China and expand the discussion there. No merge necessary because they are already discussed in the same level of detail as the current version of this article. Rossami (talk) 16:31, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Redirect to Science and technology in China and expand the discussion there. No merge necessary because they are already discussed in the same level of detail as the current version of this article--Jiang 22:43, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete, terms and phrases not appropriate for English Wikipedia. JamesBurns 07:20, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.