Wiki143:Articles for deletion/German colonization of the Americas

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep. Joyous 02:25, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)

German colonization of the Americas

The article describes an attempt made by Augsburg bankers, ruled by Spanish King as Holy Roman Emperor to take part in Spanish colonisation of America. While it is interesting to read, the article doesn't describe what the title says. The attempt was performed by private persons, not by German state and was tied to the Spanish crown more then to German one, partcularly because German state barely function at that time. Delete and copy content into Spanish chapter or German history. Cautious 01:01, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)

  • Yes, while the article content itself can probably be salvaged (and is mildly interesting) if it isn't reported elsewhere, the title is fatally flawed. Delete. Fire Star 02:49, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Err, whut? This in no way comes under policy. Move the bloody page, don't waste people's time with a deletion request. James F. (talk) 03:32, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • James, please do not use profanity (see Wikipedia:Civility) - "bloody" is derived from "bloody Christ", an expression to which some Wikipedia users may take exception to. Also, I find that statements like "don't waste people's time with a deletion request" only serves to intimidate people to not put articles up for deletion which they, in good faith, believe not to be suitable for Wikipedia. Anyway, taking into account the well-reasoned arguments given below, keep. Elf-friend 11:08, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
      • The term "bloody" is not in any way understood to be profane in the United Kingdom, nor by anyone I've ever met from Ireland, the US, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and other places where English is spoken. Also, encouraging people to be less quick to rush into a deletion request is a Good Thing. James F. (talk) 04:58, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. See European colonization of the Americas. Do you want to rename the other twelve articles as well? Even if so, that's no grounds for deletion. The content is good. If you don't like the titles, move them, which will preserve the content and history, and then propose the resulting redirects for deletion. But before doing this, I suggest we use the talk pages both of the articles and their parent, I suspect you will find these renames opposed as well. Not a promising VfD nomination IMO! Andrewa 06:52, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Good article; I don't see anything wrong with the name. If you move them, keep the redirect: it is very likely that people would search for this article by this name, if they know of the other articles in the series. Eugene van der Pijll 09:39, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep Argument only valid, if you understand 'german' always as 'german state'. Should he perhaps named it 'Bavarian colonization...'? Lectonar 10:53, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • Counter argument: some time ago somebody renamed Polish colonisation of America into Curland colonisation of America. If it is valid, why not Bavarian? Cautious 13:28, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
      • If one follows this logic to the end: wouldn't any 'revolutions' (e.g. uprising of the Dutch against Spain) which led ultimately to an independent state to have to be attributed, in this case, to the spanish people...? The same would be true with many events in history Lectonar 08:11, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. A claim that a title is incorrect, even if true, is not grounds under the policy for deletion. It is a simple matter to move the article and change the title. --BM 12:09, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. German does not imply german state. There was no unified Germany at the time anyway. Anyone interested in the article will understand what is meant. Phils 12:35, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • Other articles imply colonisation by the private organisation with support of the state. We have English colonisation, if private enterprners are working for English state. In this case private Augsburg bankers are working for Spanish state. Cautious 13:28, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • The "Pilgrims" were supported by no state, but they were ethnically British and colonists. I don't know why people are so hung up about whether or not an ethnic group that colonized the Americas were supported by the state. A good counter-example to this notion is the Pitcairn Island colonists, a mixed group of Tahitians and British who settled that island while fugitives from Britain. Britain later recognised this group as a British colony. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 23:04, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Good article, appropriately named, part of a series about colonization of the Americas by different European national and ethnic groups. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 16:33, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep this completely valid article. GRider\talk 17:45, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, valid and informative content. Article explains well enough what it is about. -- Smerdis of Tlön 18:49, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • I agree that the article doesn't support the title. Merge with an article about Spanish colonization or Venezuela. Gazpacho 21:02, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, has promise for expansion. Megan1967 01:48, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep The lack of "German state" involvement is irrelevant. Anyone who knows a little European history will surely appreciate that the title means that this was a colonization effort involving German speaking people.Philip 00:10, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Merge With the Spanish colonisation of the Americas. Ofcourse not everyone involved in the colonisation on the behalf of the Spanish state was a spaniard. There probably where croatian, turkish or any other ethnicity involved in the conquest aswell, should all of them have a page? Foant
  • Keep, 'German' doesn't have to refer to the state. Djadek 11:44, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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